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Quote (t8 @ Mar. 17 2011,17:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 18 2011,05:14) t8 Ha ha. You have your own creeds written on this sight. A creed is “a system of religious belief; a faith: people of many creeds and cultures”.
Your system of beliefs is right out of the JWs textbook who is the modern day church to the Arians.
You also have creeds t8 for I have yet to see you change any of your tightly held onto beliefs that stem from your own “creed”.
WJ
Quote my creed WJ?
Is it different to the points below?- There is on God the Father.
- Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
- God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
- The only true God sent Jesus.
- Jesus is from God and God is my and Jesus Father.
- The LORD thy God is one God.
My creed is scripture as you can plainly see. I don't need to add anything.
Yours is outside of scripture. The Nicene one or some other version of it with a touch of your own opinion on it.
t8So you do have a creed!
Actually t8 Trinitarians believe the same thing you just posted and in fact the Catholics also believe your borrowed creed.
The difference is our Jesus is greater than yours because our Jesus in nature is exactly like the Father in every way which means he is God like the Father.
I will admit that unless the Spirit of God shows you this truth it cannot be known or understood.
Paul said “no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit”. Peter did not know what “Son of God” meant without the Father showing him.
Since “Lord” also means “Owner and Master” Jesus is our “Only Lord and Master” meaning he is God. Jude 1:4 – 1 Cor 8:6.
I am on board with confessing the scriptures and the Apostles calling Jesus “My Lord and My God” and you are not.
Therefore your confession is not one of the scriptures by the Holy Spirit for you have diminished Jesus to something less than God and greater than men. To you it appears he is not fully God or fully man but some sort of demi-god or halfbreed in a class of his own.
Your Jesus partakes or shares Gods image and is not “The Image” of the invisible God, which simply means he is “The visible image of God”.
Your view of Jesus is something less than God which means to you he is not the “Image of God” or the “exact representation of his (the Fathers) being.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 18 2011,14:02)
Actually t8 Trinitarians believe the same thing you just posted and in fact the Catholics also believe your borrowed creed.
I have always stated that there is nothing unscriptural about the Nicene Creed.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 18 2011,14:02)
The difference is our Jesus is greater than yours because our Jesus in nature is exactly like the Father in every way which means he is God like the Father.
To be LIKE the Father means that Jesus is NOT the Father. And “Father” = “God Almighty”. So “to be LIKE the Father” = “to be LIKE God Almighty”. And for Jesus to be LIKE God Almighty means that Jesus is NOT God Almighty. This is elementary stuff, Keith.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 18 2011,14:02)
I will admit that unless the Spirit of God shows you this truth it cannot be known or understood. Our God is not a God of confusion, Keith. He would not teach us that Jesus is the only begotten Son OF God Almighty if Jesus was in fact God Almighty.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 18 2011,14:02)
Paul said “no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit”.
I say Jesus is Lord.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 18 2011,14:02)
Peter did not know what “Son of God” meant without the Father showing him.
And what did the Father show him that “Son of God” meant?1 Peter 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!I wasn't aware that God Almighty had a God of his own.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 18 2011,14:02)
Since “Lord” also means “Owner and Master” Jesus is our “Only Lord and Master” meaning he is God.
It then also means that God the Father is NOT our ONLY Lord and Master. In your haste to make Jesus your God, have you considered that consequence?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 18 2011,14:02)
I am on board with confessing the scriptures and the Apostles calling Jesus “My Lord and My God” and you are not.
Why do you keep saying “scriptures” and “Apostles”, as in plural? And if Jesus is God Almighty because he was called “my god” by Thomas, then who is the Father that is called “my god” by Jesus? Does God Almighty have a God of his own? Jesus does.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 18 2011,14:02)
Therefore your confession is not one of the scriptures by the Holy Spirit for you have diminished Jesus to something less than God and greater than men.
It is EXACTLY the confession taught by the scriptures and the Holy Spirit.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 18 2011,14:02)
Your view of Jesus is something less than God which means to you he is not the “Image of God” or the “exact representation of his (the Fathers) being.
God is invisible to us. For Jesus to be the VISIBLE image of God means that Jesus is NOT the invisible God. And for Jesus to be a representation OF God also means that Jesus is NOT the God he is the REPRESENTATION OF.mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 19 2011,07:02) So you do have a creed!
Yes, it is called scripture.
Your one is called the Nicene Creed or the WJ Creed.
Scripture shapes me, I don't shape scripture.
Not consciously anyway.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 19 2011,07:02) Actually t8 Trinitarians believe the same thing you just posted and in fact the Catholics also believe your borrowed creed.
Let's see if this is the truth WJ.
Your beliefs are in italics to show that they are slanted.
Mine are in bold to reflect that I can utter these statements boldly before God.There is one God the Father.
There is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. Three are one.Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus Christ is God to his own glory because he is God.God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
Jesus made himself both Lord and Christ.The only true God sent Jesus.
Jesus sent himself because he is the only true God.Jesus is from God and God is my and Jesus Father.
Jesus is from himself because he is God.The LORD thy God is one God.
The Lord thy God is triune.See WJ, Your Trinity Doctrine is not compatible with the points I quoted from scripture.
So your statement (“Actually t8 Trinitarians believe the same thing you just posted and in fact the Catholics also believe your borrowed creed.”) is not true is it? Trinitarians believe what I wrote in italics. These do not match the points made and in fact are are a direct contradiction.
I will be blunt. The points I made are scripture yours are not. I realise of course that you will deny this reality.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 19 2011,07:02) Therefore your confession is not one of the scriptures by the Holy Spirit for you have diminished Jesus to something less than God and greater than men.
My confession is that he is the son of God, the messiah, and Lord.Your confession is that he is God and one member of a Triune God. This doctrine is alien to scripture.
Now check out scripture as to which confession is correct.
I will give you three to help you get started. (There are hundreds more):
- and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
- That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
- For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
As you can see, you need to get from confessing that Jesus Christ is God to Jesus Christ is Lord. Cherry picking a couple of verses out of context to support your view is the same as heaping teachers for yourself who teach what your itching ears want to hear.
But you should let the truth shape you and not try to shape truth.
KJ.
Thanks for setting up this topic.
It is your turn to reply in that topic.I have supplied clear proof that Jesus is not the God in this verse. I am waiting for you to reply.
Kangaroo Jack.
You came in all guns blazing, but it appears you have run out of bullets.
It is only a pity that you were not able to acknowledge that you were wrong about your interpretation of 1 John 5:2020 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
For the record, in the Debate Log it is recorded that you lost this debate and that you ceased from posting because you were stumped.
Like I said, if you were an honest seeker of truth, then I think you would have handled this differently instead of just ignoring what happened.
Your acknowledgement of being wrong would not only have been noble, but would have helped others too.
Here is a link to the Debate Log.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=3829Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 26 2011,06:31) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 25 2011,11:14) I do not see God confirming what is being taught with miracles and signs and wonders following.
MartyCan you point me to any anti Jesus is God people that are saving people and feeding the poor and healing the sick or where there are signs and wonders following.
If the Trinity Doctrine is such a damnable doctrine then why is it that it is mostly the Trinitarians whom God is working through?
Are the signs and wonders working through you, if so why don't you tell us about it and then explain to us it is because you don't believe in the “Trinity”?
WJ
When most believed that salvation wasn't a free gift of God, I am sure that God still worked through people despite their ignorance.If we need another reformation, then so be it. The point is that God will work through his people regardless of how ignorant they may be. But he will always be moving us toward truth. This is what this is really about. Many of us and more to come are moving away from the Trinity doctrine to the truth that there is one God the Father and that Jesus is his son and the messiah.
WJ
Quote If the Trinity Doctrine is such a damnable doctrine then why is it that it is mostly the Trinitarians whom God is working through? because every body else was put to jail for not compliance to the trinity or telling the earth was flat,
Pierre
True terraricca.
And God still works through those who were left.
Obviously he wants us all to come to the knowledge of the truth in all things and we know that Christ comes back for a Church without spot or blemish.
So much needs to change between then and now.
Quote (t8 @ May 25 2011,19:39) True terraricca. And God still works through those who were left.
Obviously he wants us all to come to the knowledge of the truth in all things and we know that Christ comes back for a Church without spot or blemish.
So much needs to change between then and now.
T8I always have believed that many people play the game in those days to allow them to have access to the info,
and those people spread the good news at the risk of there own live,that how the protestant was born as well ,at the least the separation from the rcc.
we are blessed because God as done all that.Pierre
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 22 2011,01:46) TO All, I marvel that t8 has involved himself in two debates with WJ. t8 has said numerous times here that Jesus is God qualitatively. This means that Jesus is God! t8 will need to give up his “qualitative” explanation if he is going to be consistent and have a chance against WJ.
If he doesn't then he has already defeated himself.
KJ
KJ.You lost this one too.
I explained clearly that the woman and man share the same nature and Christ and God have divine nature, and Christ partook of our nature and we can partake of divine nature. Yet the woman, man, Christ, and God are all different individuals or identities.
It is written that the head of the woman is the man, the head of the man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God.
That is four different identities in that verse.
Again: God > Christ > Man > Woman.
But you have been preaching that there is only
God > Man in some posts and perhaps God > Man > Woman.
But where is Christ?
I will give you the correct order of headship again.
God > Christ > Man > Woman.
Notice too that the woman came from the man, man was created through Christ, and Christ came from God. This is a good way to see it as well.
I marvel that you refuse to see the truth and continue to preach otherwise.
Quote (terraricca @ May 25 2011,14:30) T8 I always have believed that many people play the game in those days to allow them to have access to the info,
and those people spread the good news at the risk of there own live,that how the protestant was born as well ,at the least the separation from the rcc.
we are blessed because God as done all that.Pierre
Amen Pierre.
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