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Ed,
Is that a fact about the slaves and fornication??
I KNOW for a fact, that with Islam.. If they have sex with a woman, then they HAVE to Marry them. So.. Why do you think they are so careful not to be tempted? Why do you think they HATE western lifestyles Ed? If they sleep with a woman then they are to marry them (No casual sex there is there) and not only that but marriage brings with it more MONEY, costs, expenses, problems, responsibilities… Now compare that to Western Men Ed.
Christian men who preach and think that sex outside of marriage is ok?? Or even sex with another mans wife.
It happens all over Christiandom Ed – should I find the statistics – if they are known??
Muslims are too scared of hellfire etc.
Look, even one of the biggest Evangelists is having sex with another mans wife apparently. (Can't remember his name).
“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, 'marrying and giving in marriage', until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away”.
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 27 2012,19:30) Ed, Is that a fact about the slaves and fornication??
I KNOW for a fact, that with Islam.. If they have sex with a woman, then they HAVE to Marry them. So.. Why do you think they are so careful not to be tempted? Why do you think they HATE western lifestyles Ed? If they sleep with a woman then they are to marry them (No casual sex there is there) and not only that but marriage brings with it more MONEY, costs, expenses, problems, responsibilities… Now compare that to Western Men Ed.
Christian men who preach and think that sex outside of marriage is ok?? Or even sex with another mans wife.
It happens all over Christiandom Ed – should I find the statistics – if they are known??
Muslims are too scared of hellfire etc.
Look, even one of the biggest Evangelists is having sex with another mans wife apparently. (Can't remember his name).
Hi Shimmer,In islam, marriages are fake: a man can divorce a wife at any time
and then remarry another. In Christianity it is till death do you part.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi,
Luke 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive
the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
What does a little child have that most adults lack? Answer, TRUST.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgThis is a thought provoking thread…but what makes one 'married' in God's eyes?
Is a couple considered married in God's eyes when they are living together, confessing themselves to be believers albeit immature believers, justifying that they are 'married in their heart' and then making several children together? Or, is a couple married in God's eyes only when the father gives his blessing? What if the father doesn't give his blessing yet the couple believes in their hearts that they are married and demonstrate those intentions by having several children within that union?
Do you give the same advice…to get out of the relationship or does God see them as 'one' and to get out of the relationship would carry the same limitations as a divorce, i.e the woman should not enter another sexual relationship…sexual in mind or flesh? What about the guy?
Some people who confess Christ, claim to be married in their 'heart' who are faithful to each other and live together and have several children but think that a formal wedding ceremony is just an unnecessary 'tradition' and 'a piece of paper'. Is it a divorce without the formalities, when they have claimed to be married in their heart, have several children yet go their separate ways and divide the family? It seems to me that the couple would be under the same considerations as the divorced husband and wife because they had the 'heart' of marriage just not the legal formalities.
I wonder. What do you think, Kerwin, Gene? Is there a scriptural example of 'fornication' when there are children produced?
God bless,
KathiShimmer! I did not read all of the posts made here, but like to give you my two cents worth…
When a man and a woman get together, in most cases it is a physical attraction that will eventually end up in a marriage….Very seldom does the spiritual aspect come in place at that time….A perfect marriage would be if both the spiritual and the physical is present, however especially if they are Catholic, it very seldom is present…….Is it adultery if then the man or the woman finds someone in spiritual way, that question has been on my mind for a long time….we all know that the lust of the eye is adultery to a married couples, but the Spiritual if it was not present of the time of the union, and vow to honor and love each other til death do us part, then I wonder if one or the other finds a Spiritual mate is committing adultery in the Spirit? My believe is that the Spiritual can be separate from the physical, and is not adultery….But I do not believe a man or a woman can have several of those relationships….
The Bible only speaks of the physical the lust of the eye…I could be wrong, and I will pray about this… it is very interesting …Peace Irene
PS I know I have not been here often, but in the future I will try to come back more…Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 28 2012,07:54) Shimmer! I did not read all of the posts made here, but like to give you my two cents worth…
When a man and a woman get together, in most cases it is a physical attraction that will eventually end up in a marriage….Very seldom does the spiritual aspect come in place at that time….A perfect marriage would be if both the spiritual and the physical is present, however especially if they are Catholic, it very seldom is present…….Is it adultery if then the man or the woman finds someone in spiritual way, that question has been on my mind for a long time….we all know that the lust of the eye is adultery to a married couples, but the Spiritual if it was not present of the time of the union, and vow to honor and love each other til death do us part, then I wonder if one or the other finds a Spiritual mate is committing adultery in the Spirit? My believe is that the Spiritual can be separate from the physical, and is not adultery….But I do not believe a man or a woman can have several of those relationships….
The Bible only speaks of the physical the lust of the eye…I could be wrong, and I will pray about this… it is very interesting …Peace Irene
PS I know I have not been here often, but in the future I will try to come back more…
Hi Irene.Quote My believe is that the Spiritual can be separate from the physical, and is not adultery….But I do not believe a man or a woman can have several of those relationships…. Hmm. I agree with you in part.
Firstly, what IS a “Spiritual Marriage”?
It consists of love in the heart – and in the Spirit – between two – who have never been together in the flesh… who CANT marry due to distance. But God has put love in their hearts, and brought them together. In a way this can be a safegaurd to a woman who needed SOMEONE, and needed healing (Example a past fornicator). But is not meant to be with a man in the flesh again (For whatever reason God has). So, her love for the man remains for good. She will not have another man in the flesh. This being a personal love she has prayed to God about. God understands her love and that it is for good. Even if the man left her somehow (Eg lost contact) God knows her heart and that she has considered it for good. God also knows that she will not hesitate to marry by law if she could.
As for the man, the Bible does not make it clear as to how many wives a man can have. In the old testement they had many. In the new, it is not really addressed that I have seen. But a woman should only have one.
This is all just my thinking. But i do believe that such spiritual marriages can exist. But the LAWS of God would still apply. Example, the man can not lust over another mans wife or a divorced woman, or he becomes an adulterer.
A bit complicated though.
Also, Fornication IS fornication.
From experience I DO believe it is 'Living with someone' but not FULLY comitted.
A fully comitted person would have absolutely NO DOUBT in their heart or their mind to marry. I gaurantee that these couples who fornicate have thought over marriage and asked the question. But something was stopping them.
Jesus made a distinction between the two, when speaking to the woman at the well. She had been married five times and the last one she was not married to.
I'm sure there are more examples.
Hi all.
Just wondering, what is your view on this (How do you understand it?):
Mat 19.12.
“For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.”
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 28 2012,00:16) This is a thought provoking thread…but what makes one 'married' in God's eyes? Is a couple considered married in God's eyes when they are living together, confessing themselves to be believers albeit immature believers, justifying that they are 'married in their heart' and then making several children together? Or, is a couple married in God's eyes only when the father gives his blessing? What if the father doesn't give his blessing yet the couple believes in their hearts that they are married and demonstrate those intentions by having several children within that union?
Do you give the same advice…to get out of the relationship or does God see them as 'one' and to get out of the relationship would carry the same limitations as a divorce, i.e the woman should not enter another sexual relationship…sexual in mind or flesh? What about the guy?
Some people who confess Christ, claim to be married in their 'heart' who are faithful to each other and live together and have several children but think that a formal wedding ceremony is just an unnecessary 'tradition' and 'a piece of paper'. Is it a divorce without the formalities, when they have claimed to be married in their heart, have several children yet go their separate ways and divide the family? It seems to me that the couple would be under the same considerations as the divorced husband and wife because they had the 'heart' of marriage just not the legal formalities.
I wonder. What do you think, Kerwin, Gene? Is there a scriptural example of 'fornication' when there are children produced?
God bless,
Kathi
Lightenup,The government that God has given authority to determine the regulations and the couple must obey in accordance with the instruction to obey the authorities God has placed over each of them.
Quote The government that God has given authority to determine the regulations and the couple must obey in accordance with the instruction to obey the authorities God has placed over each of them.
Kerwin you are right, and I just felt to write something else on this.I know someone, a woman, who lived 20 years with a man. They had children together. it was never happy. Something was just never right. Not from day one. At one stage, when he joined a church, the church told him they were 'living in sin' and had to get married. He told her this and she was angry at the church. He brought the church elders around to try and talk to her, and she just said 'no' and got angry. The church got the man to leave her, and she turned into a wreck. She felt they had 'seperated them'. He started using drugs and alcahol heavily and went back to her to live and they continued to live like this for another so many years, on and off. (Never happy – always seperating). So many times he asked her to marry him, and she made every excuse under the sun. The main one being 'We are married in Gods eyes, who needs a piece of paper'? truth is, she didn't WANT to marry him. Eventually, God reached her, and, with that came the mans anger toward her new love for God. Anything she did to do with God was met with anger. She was not allowed to talk about it to him, despite her love for God. The anger got to the state of blasphemy. Then one day, as the man blasphemed to God out loud (again), she said out of the blue and with the most strength she had ever known “I'm leaving you”. And instantly a love came right through her, and into her heart ands she knew it was from God and she knew God was happy with her. It was as if God (Jesus) took her by the hand and gently led her away. She has only seen the man maybe five times in aproximately two years. When she did see him, he spoke of nothing but his experiences with God (God did not leave him alone).
Might shed some light on the topic, and how true fornication really is.
With true love, put together by God, there is no hesitation to marry the man. God knows the heart.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 28 2012,08:09) So Kerwin, if the government allows for gay marriages then the gay couple is married in God's eye?
Lightenup,God has authority over the governments he put over you. If a command of one of those governments opposes God's law then you obey God's command and don't seek to justify evil.
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 28 2012,09:44) Hi all. Just wondering, what is your view on this (How do you understand it?):
Mat 19.12.
“For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.”
Shimmer………A eunuch is someone who because of what has happened to him does not desire sex at all, he has no testosterone driving this type of lust from his natural body. Now that is accomplished in different way, There are eunuchs made that way by men as in the case of Daniel and others that kings would put in watch of their women> The kings had them castrated , They therefore had no natural sexual desires, but there are also people born that way from there berth, and there are people who GOD makes that way also for the kingdoms of GOD Sake as Perhaps Jesus was and I believe it takes place with many who God want fro a particular purpose.But a Marriage has nothing to do with LOVE as many assume. it has to do with a “Covenant” . While Love in that Covenant is desirable it is not a necessity for a marriage covenant .
Take Jacob who was tricked into a marriage Covenant by Laboian his future father in law, to Leah, Jacob did not love her and she was not his pick for a wife but never the less he entered into a Marriage Covenant with her and was still bond to it and then had to serve his father in law another seven years to get the one he loved .
LOVE is one thing, a COVENANT is quite another. And becasue the seriousness of Covenants of Marriages are not looked at today before Marriage they are broken for almost any reason today, and family's are devastated and childern are the victims of these failed marriages, in most cases and it has so degenerated in the US that now one out of three Childern are in families where one of there Natural Parents are not there. The innocent Childern always pay the price for a divorce.
Love is LOVE and a covenant is a COVENANT, The two are not the same even in a Spiritual sense . Covenant requires faithfulness to the agreement while Love has no agreements.
Love is what you HOLD ON TO, no matter what a covenant says. Israel broke their covenant with GOD but GOD never stopped loving them even to this very day GOD still loves Israel His divorced wife and will take he back if she will repent of her doings and turn back to him with all her heart and keep his commandments and call on him. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Shimmer…………………………gene
Kerwin and Nick……….I agree with both of what you have said, My Point was trying to show LOVE and a Marriage Covenant are not the same thing , but obviously a man should Love his wife in all respects and be Kind to her as a weaker vessel and the mother of His childern and be a true Husband to her and provide for her even as the Lord provided for Israel and loved her and still loves her. IMO Moses only permitted divorces becasue of the Hardness of their hearts and in that case it might be better to divorce but truly that was not the intent from the beginning. I only wish i had understood about Marriage Covenants when i was a young man before i married , I did not devoice my wife but she devoiced Me, can't say i blamed Her though. I was married to her for 24 years and had 4 childern with her and it did cause mental anguish them and me and her. I would say try every thing you can to stay in a marriage for everyone sake, Like Paul said even if you are with a unbeliever still stay married, but if she or he the unbeliever decides to leave then let them in such cases you are not bound and it is not you who is breaking the Marriage Covenant it is the unbeliever. But Love does cover a multitude of Sins. Why separate and then find another person, while that person may not have the Same problems the first had , but you can be sure they will have other problems just as bad if not worse. If is far better to work through any difficulties that arise in (ALL MARRIAGES) and stay with that person Faithfully and LOVE one another , that is by far the best way to experience LIFE this life and the Life to come. . IMO
Peace and love to you all…………………………………………….gene
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 28 2012,09:44) Hi all. Just wondering, what is your view on this (How do you understand it?):
Mat 19.12.
“For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.”
The Spirit, is separate from the body, we if we should be chosen by God, will be only Spirit beings… A Spiritual union therefore can be also separate from the physical marriage… That is how I understand the Spiritual marriage is….a perfect marriage is were both is present, and the heart which is in essence our Spirit, will be present…..I have seen were a couple are just physically attracted to each other, and marriage takes place, but the Spiritual is not present… that might be hard for some to understand, but it does take place in some marriages…that marriage may or may not last, all the depends on the persons involved, whether they took the vows serious or not…..
Peace IreneQuote (Pastry @ Feb. 29 2012,07:38) The Spirit, is separate from the body, we if we should be chosen by God, will be only Spirit beings… A Spiritual union therefore can be also separate from the physical marriage… That is how I understand the Spiritual marriage is….a perfect marriage is were both is present, and the heart which is in essence our Spirit, will be present…..I have seen were a couple are just physically attracted to each other, and marriage takes place, but the Spiritual is not present… that might be hard for some to understand, but it does take place in some marriages…that marriage may or may not last, all the depends on the persons involved, whether they took the vows serious or not…..
Peace Irene
Hi Irene. I'm REALLY sorry for my post in the preexistant thread, I was NOT talking about you. It's good to see you back Irene, much love to you. (I've had a lot on my mind lately).Yes, I agree. Long distance “Spiritual Marriages” are good, so long as BOTH are loyal.
Otherwise all is lost. (The Spirit is lost to someone else).
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 29 2012,03:00) Shimmer………A eunuch is someone who because of what has happened to him does not desire sex at all, he has no testosterone driving this type of lust from his natural body. Now that is accomplished in different way, There are eunuchs made that way by men as in the case of Daniel and others that kings would put in watch of their women> The kings had them castrated , They therefore had no natural sexual desires, but there are also people born that way from there berth, and there are people who GOD makes that way also for the kingdoms of GOD Sake as Perhaps Jesus was and I believe it takes place with many who God want fro a particular purpose. But a Marriage has nothing to do with LOVE as many assume. it has to do with a “Covenant” . While Love in that Covenant is desirable it is not a necessity for a marriage covenant .
Take Jacob who was tricked into a marriage Covenant by Laboian his future father in law, to Leah, Jacob did not love her and she was not his pick for a wife but never the less he entered into a Marriage Covenant with her and was still bond to it and then had to serve his father in law another seven years to get the one he loved .
LOVE is one then a COVENANT is quite another. And becasue the seriousness of Covenants of Marriages are not looked at today before Marriage they are broken for almost any reason today, and family's are devastated and childern are the victims of these failed marriages, in most cases and it has so degenerated in the US that now one out of three Childern are in families where one of there Natural Parents are not there. The innocent Childern always pay the price for a divorce.
Love is LOVE and a covenant is a COVENANT, The two are not the same even in a Spiritual sense . Covenant requires faithfulness to the agreement while Love has no agreements.
Love is what you HOLD ON TO, no matter what a covenant says. Israel broke their covenant with GOD but GOD never stopped loving them even to this very day GOD still loves Israel His divorced wife and will take he back if she will repent of her doings and turn back to him with all her heart and keep his commandments and call on him. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Shimmer…………………………gene
Gene, hmmm. I might disagree with a few things in this but I'm too tired to post tonight.. when my mind is more awake I will.
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