Soul, spirit, life and death, biblical definitions

[Jodi]

Hi Nick,

You:

You miss the word AND.

Spirit AND breath shows they are DIFFERENT.

ME: Really that is the measure of depth to your thinking that since the word says AND that means that they are different?

If I say I have life and I breath, that is representing the same thing.

They go together is what the scripture shows, they are used interchangeably is what the scriptures show. This is exactly why ruwach and n@shamah are given the same definitions. It’s amazing how you won’t bring such a fact up in the discussion though it has been presented directly to you.

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Spirit   Ruwach   wind, breath, mind, spirit

Breath  N@shamah  breath, spirit

The Spirit of God made man, and likewise it is the Spirit of God that gives us life, the word breath is represented as God giving life, and He is able to do so through the power and wisdom of His Spirit.

All souls are formed and made alive through God’s Spirit, having life is expressed in scripture as God giving His breath. Now why on earth would that be?? Maybe because when your are alive you breath and when your dead you don’t. 

 

 

 

[Jodi]

Hi Nick,

You: Where does scripture say that God gives HIS SPIRIT to ALL men?

If it does not why do you propagate falsehoods?

Me: You clearly did not read and comprehend what I said in my last post. Of course comprehension doesn’t mean you agree with it, but you at least understand accordingly what it is I said, so then you could respond appropriately.

I spoke of measures of the Spirit. It is not a biblical fact that God gives measure of His Spirit Nick? Not all are prophets, not all are apostles, not all are given the same amounts of wisdom.

Only God is good, patience, self control, honesty, charity, etc.. all come through God’s Spirit working in us.

What makes a man more wise than the other is God giving more wisdom to one over the other. Now what he chooses to do with that wisdom comes from another measure of the Spirit.

Did God not make Solomon very wise? Did Solomon not receive God’s Spirit of wisdom to a higher measure than others? But Solomon loved woman it seems more than God at times and allowed woman to influence him, Solomon did not have certain other measures of God’s Spirit, where he used his wisdom solely with a righteous purpose.

Nick seems like you are making the workings of God’s Spirit black and white. If God’s Spirit is in you, it is according to a measure, Jesus was the only human who had the full measure and did not sin.

We are sinners, and we all have certain weaknesses, for those who have faith in God and a repentant heart, (the greatest measure of God’s Spirit that we can receive as it counts as righteousness), those weaknesses are what draws our FAITH in all the more. Paul spoke of this, his repentant heart and his acknowledgement of his weaknesses made Him desire God and His Spirit all the more. Paul desired for a measure of God’s Spirit that would cause him to no longer sin.

We live in a cruel world, however it would be exceedingly cruel all around us at every given moment, if most people didn’t have some measure of God’s Spirit working in them.

Only God is GOOD.

Not all athiests, or pagans, or false Christians, live every waking moment sinning, they show kindness, love, honesty, charity, respect for mother earth, show patience and understanding to other humans. Such is caused through God, because only God is good.  He gives mankind mercy in many ways, otherwise we would all be at all times just ignorant beasts.

 

 

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,

MEASURES OF HIS SPIRIT are given to all men? Rubbish.

God does not share ANY of His Holy Spirit with the sons of Adam.

With the obvious exceptions of His Sons, His prophets and His apostles.

 

And He will later pour out His Spirit on all flesh.Jl 2

Do not put words in His Mouth.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,

God is close to all men as Acts 17 shows.

But He only lives in cleansed vessels,

 

You think AND is just used for purposes of emphasis by repetition?

An unwise assumption on the carefully made word of God.

 

 

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,

You confuse the grace of God, available to all or none could be saved,

with the work of the Spirit of God in chosen vessels.

 

The Spirit is of Grace too, so seek this blessing from our loving Father.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,

Paul was an anointed man.

Not to be confused with carnal men.

 

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,

You may admire the DEPTH OF YOUR THINKING,

but it would be wiser to fear God and take care with your handling of His Word.

[Anthony]

Hi Gene

Ya I know the word yo. In the Hebrew for day could be used literal or figurtive , one 24 hour day or a longer of shorter period of time, like you said a day for a thousand or  a thousand for a day. Also Daniel use of a day for a year  it just give me more thing that I should study our deeper. But anyways we know that to Adam to die for eariea of the fruit of the tree was to die, it good have been just  changing from I’m mortal to mortal and Adam starting to die on that day till He died 930 year later. Both Spiritual and.                 phisactual.  Well thanks for your reply. God bless

[Jodi]

Hi Nick,

You:MEASURES OF HIS SPIRIT are given to all men? Rubbish.

God does not share ANY of His Holy Spirit with the sons of Adam.

ME: Nick explain how you interpret Jesus’s words, “ONLY GOD IS GOOD“?

Jesus is a SON OF ADAM. He was a son of Adam who was born able to DIE, able to be tempted, and he did die. We are told directly that Jesus was a son of Adam, the son of God. God SHARED/GAVE His Spirit to a son of Adam, so that he could overcome, and because he was given the full measure of God’s Spirit he was able to overcome and be perfected. The SON OF ADAM, which the very word Adam equates to a human being, of which Jesus is called the Son of Man (anthropos/human), is also called the last ADAM, the heavenly ADAM.

What a most bizarre untruthful thing to say Nick, we are ALL sons of Adam as Adam means MAN, a human. He gives His Spirit to humans according to His plan so that we can overcome our carnal mind.

Holy means set apart, and as we are told God has indeed known from the beginning those who He predestined, those that would be made set apart to be of the firstfruits of His Spirit. Those that are set a part (holy) have been counted as righteous through their faith. God has and is using His Spirit  to set men apart from other men, to be these firstfruits, to be kings and judges with Christ. That does not mean that God’s Spirit is not visible in other humans. ONLY GOD IS GOOD, not all are set apart, not all are chosen/called to be the firstfruit of God’s Spirit to be judges and kings, born again into righteousness and eternal life rising at Christ’s return to meet him and help rule over earth. This does NOT mean that God’s Spirit is not working in various measures in other humans, if it wasn’t the world would be full of continuous evil and even more mass dysfunction.

God uses His Spirit to fulfill His plan Nick in many ways.

For instance, Pharaoh’s heart was open to taking in Moses, then it was hardened. That is God giving and then taking His Spirit away in order to cause history necessary to occur for God to fulfill His plan.

All the earth is under the control of God’s will and His plan and He brings it about through the power of His Spirit. History has been caused through God and what God has given and not given to the carnal mind of man. He gives the Spirit of Wisdom, He gives the Spirit of Understanding, it is His Spirit that causes people to have patience and compassion. He can give it according to various measures and He can take it away according to various measures, He does so in order to fulfill His will.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jodi]

To ALL,

David knew of his future Son Jesus and that his son would be before him as his Lord, as he knew that his son was to be the firstborn of the dead, the firstborn of many brethren. David knew he would be one of those brethren to receive life once more. He speaks clearly about death, He has spoken clearly the WORD of God adding to what God told Adam in the garden, that we are of the dust and return to the dust. 

Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Our thoughts separate us from animals, our brains have similarities to other animals but also major differences because of our higher intelligence within our brain.

When the human dies his thoughts likewise perish, that is because thoughts exist in the brain, and in death the brain is DEAD.

Our thoughts hold our knowledge, our wisdom, our feelings, our beliefs, our faith, they display our righteousness as well as our sinfulness, and are the cause to our actions. We do not act on all our thoughts but our actions and our speech comes from our thoughts. Thoughts in our brain arise through what we are experiencing through our senses combined with our memory which holds previous experiences, and the wisdom we have gained.

When we die our thoughts perish, that is because our brain is dead.

There is no part of us that remains conscious after death. Our body with it’s brain is what allows us to have thoughts, God formed our body out of the dust of the earth as a unique soul with mental capabilities beyond other animals, when it has the breath of life it is capable of thinking, learning, knowing, creating, devising

Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick…..what Jodi has said is true, God gives understanding buy his spirit to all his creation, to one degree or another by measure .  Not all are full of the spirit of God, like Jesus, and Steven, and a few others recorded in scripture. But we all have our portion from our Heavenly Father,  God can add or subtract spirit from anyone he choses to. Spirit in scripture seems to be like faith,  it seems to be measureable.   Even the deciples before they recieved the spirit from God were said to have little faith, “O’ YOU OF “LITTLE” FAITH.  But they still were drawn to Jesus by the spirit of God working in them and revealing who  Jesus  was to them.

“THE LORD GIVETH AND THE LORD TAKETH, BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD, OUR GOD”.  It’s “all” about faith brother.  We all need to keep seeking, knocking, asking, our heavenly Father, “believing” that we  recieve those thing which we seek, and ask for,  in accordance to the will of our heavenly Father.

Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

[Jodi]

Hi Nick,

YOU:Paul was an anointed man.  Not to be confused with carnal men.

ME: Paul said he was carnal sold under sin.

Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more* I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Through God’s Spirit a man is brought to a repentant heart, where he recognizes that not only does his repentance come through the work of the Spirit, he also recognizes that in order to be able to follow the law perfectly he needs the Spirit to a measure that will give him that ability.

Christ (anointed Jesus) represents the full measure of God’s Spirit and what that can accomplish, to be able to remain without sin. Paul knew that when he receives a body that can no longer taste death, he will be perfected, where he too like Jesus can no longer sin.

Paul was anointed with the Spirit to a measure of an apostle,where he was used by God to bring people into faith.  He was given a measure of the Spirit that gave him faith and belief in that he an others like him in faith, would one day be like Christ, no longer able to sin anymore.

[Proclaimer]

Paul expressed his desire which was to be away from the body and be PRESENT with the Lord.

That said, this desire doesn’t mean it was not a real expectation. I desire that there is a God who is love, but that doesn’t negate that truth because I desire it. No, I desire it because it is real. So let’s look at other scripture to clear Soul Sleep or Soul Death doctrine up.

For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me.

So for Paul, dying is gain. So what some are saying here is not existing is gain because that is what you believe happens when you are away from the body.

Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

Yes, this can be read two ways. Today Jesus said…. Or this day you will actually be in Paradise.

Back in the day there were two places in Hades, the place was divided between righteous and wicked where neither could cross over. When Jesus preached to the dead, he could have preached victory over death to the righteous who were there with Abraham. So it would have been that day in Paradise because they departed this earth and went to the place of the dead.

Further, we see slightly later that graves were opened up and many walked around like Jesus and then Jesus was taken up. It seems therefore logical that the dead were raised with Jesus, then we who are alive and remain at the end of the age will be taken up to meet him in the clouds. Some assume that these dead were switched back to this hypothetical non-existent state.

Those who believe that teach that these were raised must do because God thought it a good idea at the time and then they must assume he put them back in the grave. I think those who believe this haven’t thought things through clearly. Such teachers have zero proof, only a pet doctrine to preserve at all costs IMO.

[Jodi]

Hi Nick,

YOU: God is close to all men as Acts 17 shows.  But He only lives in cleansed vessels,

ME: A cleansed vessel represents a person who has a repentant heart.

Acts 17:; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

God is not far from every man, in God we live, move, and have our being. When we do good, God is working in us to perform that righteous deed, if we do bad, God is not in us but we are acting on our own devices.

Ignorance exist in those that do not know God’s work, ONLY GOD is GOOD, men sin when they are self righteous, saying their good came from within them through them. We cannot commit one righteous deed without it being an act through God’s Spirit working in us. In repentance which also comes through God’s Spirit working in us, we recognize our self righteousness. That all those good deeds were in fact through God working in us. We recognize that we can do nothing of ourselves. God would say,”remember when you overcame that trial, remember when you gave to the poor, remember when you decided to speak the truth at a time it was difficult for you to do so, remember when you did the right thing, that was me in you. I caused in you through my Spirit for you to speak the truth, I caused you to have a warm heart and give to the poor with understanding. You did nothing through yourself, now repent of your self righteousness and know that it is me, only I am good. All goodness comes from me. Without me you are nothing but a brute beast, serving yourself through your own carnal nature.”

When God chooses to call a soul into repentance that soul can reflect back on their life, and see when it was God was in them, and when He was not. That realization given by God builds their faith, builds their desire for God to be working in them all the more. They can repent where needed and they can give glory to God where needed. They will know who they are and who God is. They will know that they are just ignorant created creatures and God is the way, that He is wisdom, truth and life.

 

 

 

 

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,

REPRESENTS?

Is that relevant?

Repent, and let each one of you be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;

and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2.38

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick….We are sorrowed unto,  true repentence, it is a gift of God.

2 Cor 7:10…..” For “Godly” sorrow works  repentence to salvation, not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world works death.”

Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

[Proclaimer]

Nick.

The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

[Jodi]

Hi Nick,

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Read through all the scriptures Nick that talk about being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. The promise of receiving the Holy Spirit after one is baptized  is NOT at all what you claim.

What you receive is the promise to be raised from the dead and receive the Holy Spirit that gives you eternal life and makes you incapable of sin. Also it is not about the ritual of being dipped in water, that is not what makes you clean, your repentant heart that holds your faith in God that you want to follow His ways, is what makes you clean. Such a heart comes through God’s Spirit working in you to bring you to repentance. You don’t get their on your own, and then confess your sins and then that is when God gives you of His Spirit. You teach self righteousness Nick.

God’s Spirit leads you to repentance, when you have a repentant heart and believe that as Jesus was anointed with the Spirit that enabled him to remain without sin, you desire to receive that measure of the Spirit that keeps you from sin. Jesus was raised from the dead because he remained without sin, he was not worthy of the punishment of sin, which is death, so God raised him from the dead. We have eternal life because we will be anointed with the Spirit that causes us to remain without sin. This promise is given to those of a repentant heart and believe in the anointing of human beings to the point of perfect righteous, of which Jesus was the first.

Acts 2 tells us that about 3,000 souls were saved that day that they were baptized. They are saved from the second death, they were repentant and had faith that they would be anointed as Jesus was anointed, believing in the promise that they are to receive the Holy Spirit that causes eternal life, as it causes you to remain without sin.

Not all true repentant believers were given gifts of the Holy Spirit being made apostles, or able to speak in tongues, or were prophets, but they ALL were washed clean according to their heart and given the promise of the Holy Spirit to be received upon their resurrection from the dead.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

This very passage shows your error Nick. Gentiles received the Spirit and spoke in tongues to show the Jews that God is the God of all people. With the display of this gift from the Spirit in these Gentiles Peter asks the Jews should we forbid them of baptism, of hearing their confession and belief, thus also Peter was showing to the Jews that Gentiles too are part of the promise of the resurrection unto eternal life.

Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. 

God uses His Spirit to move the Jews and Gentiles alike into a repentant heart, with that heart one receives the promise of the Holy Spirit upon rising from the dead, that causes you to remain without sin, and thus gives you eternal life.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve. 8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. 9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

Certain disciples were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, Paul LAID hands upon them and they received the Spirit enabling them to speak in tongues and prophecy. But these certain (divers) were hardened, God giveth and God taketh away,  and these men then being hardened believed not but spoke evil.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 

We are washed clean(baptized) by the death of Jesus who paid the penalty for our sins, as he died not having any sin in him, our heart believing in him and having repentance, we also die having no sins counted, and as he rose because no sin was found in him, we shall also rise from the dead.

Matthew 22:21 And he said unto her,What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. 22 But Jesus answered and said,Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

When people are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, they are not being baptized with the full measure of the Spirit that keeps them from sin, they are not being baptized and given eternal life at that moment. The baptism that Jesus speaks of here is the anointed of the Holy Spirit that comes upon rising from the dead, where your rise from weakness to power, from dishonor to glory, and from mortal to immortality, a heavenly man incapable of temptation and sin.

Those who confessed their sins, and desire for an anointing of the Spirit that will cause them to remain without sin, and in the meantime as Paul spoke of himself, mortify the deeds of the body, these are counted worthy to be baptized with the Holy Spirit that gives the cup of eternal life. 

To bring a person into such confession takes the work of God’s Spirit leading you. God gives and takes away of His Spirit according to His will. Some along with their confession and faith receive gifts of the Spirit to be apostles and prophets, NOT ALL receive such gifts. Moses, David, Solomon, Isaiah, they likewise received gifts of the Spirit. But all who have the true Christ in their heart ALL are to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit that gives eternal life.

ONLY God is good, patience, love, understanding, wisdom, self control..etc.. all come through the works of God’s Spirit as He pleases. The idea that you come through your own work to repentance and then once you are baptized ONLY THEN you have God’s Spirit working in you is a false doctrine that has been spread wide. It is purely the teaching of self righteousness and ignorance of God and the workings of His Spirit.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,

Scripture does not need your intellectual doctrinal rationalisations.

It speaks for itself.

Acts 22.16

And now why do you delay? Arise and be baptised, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.

 

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,

What man reviles matters to God.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is important.

1Peter 3.21

And corresponding to that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh,

but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

 

The baptism of John was important too.

Lk 7.29

And when all the people and the tax gatherers heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice,

having been baptised by John. But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for

themselves, not having been baptised by John.

 

You cannot see the kingdom till you obey the command of Jn 3.

[Author]

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