Show me the fruit

Participant

Mike Boll 64,

Shimmer is practicing diplomacy as she dislikes division in the family of God. I believe she is hoping that she can reconcile Martian to the need to suffer the evil of others instead of being quick to anger and painting with a wide brush. :cool:

October 10, 2010 at 4:50 pm#219441

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2010,02:57)

Mike Boll 64,

Hi Kerwin,

Then perhaps Shimmer should read through some of the rude and insulting things Martian has said to those “evil ones” of us who have done nothing but point him to scripture.

We can't help it if those scriptures refute his “wish” for Jesus to have been exactly like us Kerwin. He chose not to believe those scriptures, but instead to sling insults and unsubstantiated claims of dishonesty. And for showing him scriptures, we have been called “miscreants”, “liars”, “fools”, “numbskulls”, “monkeys”,
“swine”, etc.

Yet to these insults, Shimmer says, “Martian, I know how you feel. But despite the ones who do cause anger, frustration and hurt, there are also nice people who show christian behaviour,”.

What about us “evil ones” Kerwin? Shouldn't we be the ones who are “angered”, “frustrated” and “hurt” by these very mean things that were said about us?

Should not one who's moral compass is in alignment with righteousness be able to see which of the two parties are showing un-Christian-like behavior here?

On one side, we have the “evil ones” who are refuting Martian's “wish” with solid unrefutable scriptures.

On the other side, we have a person who, when faced with those scriptures decides to act like a 3 year old throwing a tantrum and calling names.

Hmmmm…….tough decision.

mike

October 10, 2010 at 9:49 pm#219460

Participant

Mike, from what I have seen, jumping up and down and calling people things on the forum can be caused by anger hurt or frustration – on the forum, I could easily do the same thing, actually only three people have ever made me feel like doing the same thing. I try to remain calm. I would have fun and would let out so much frustration if I did. But I choose not to. Because it would cause too many divisions and theres enough here already. (but it would be fun !)What you see as me siding with someone is actually me seeing things from their point. I had wanted to be a lawyer, but left school early. So iv always seen things from both sides.

With JA, I have seen him do AMAZING posts only to be ignored or debated or picked on. It's true that because he is my friend I dont see alot. BUT Mike, theres alot you dont see because of your friend so were as bad as each other.

In my life Mike, away from this pretend forum world, I get on great with people. People are friendly, caring, helpfull, they go out of their way to be nice. I have had not one arguement with anyone in years (apart from my ex and daughter) Not even a dirty look. So excuse me if you find some of the things I say hard to understand. It is all just a written world these forums. You cant see me or hear me.

Mike, I liked you. My motive the few times I tried to help was I cared. But you got angry. I learnt to leave you alone. I see that you try to remain calm most times and what you have to put up with. I could say alot more but I wont. Unless you ask me.

So I do see it from both points of view. I dont read all the posts so alot of what I say is probably ignorance as well.

October 10, 2010 at 9:51 pm#219461

Participant

Thankyou Kerwin that is exactly what I was trying to do.

October 10, 2010 at 10:30 pm#219463

Participant

Mike Boll 64,

Perhaps Martian is persecuting you with his words but I believe he is also sincere in his criticism of you though he may speak from ignorance at times. Currently it appears as if the devil has him in chains for his words give voice to anger, frustration, and hurt which you inadvertently caused.

Jesus instructs us to rejoice when persecuted and to turn the other cheek rather than to evil when wronged. He also warned us that there would be dissension in the house. We are not about tit for tat but rather about patience with the evils others do us hoping they will repent and knowing vengeance is the Lord's.

So please keep your own anger, frustration, and hurt in check by letting God work through you. Thank you! :cool:

October 10, 2010 at 11:43 pm#219474

Lightenup

Participant

Martian,
You seem to be really wanting help. I know these boards can become addicting and we all have to be careful of that. You could always change your password and intentionally not a password that you would ever remember unless it were written down, or you can have someone in your home do it for you. It takes guts to admit that and I encourage you to ask for forgiveness of others and forgive others before you go if you feel that you ought to do that so that you can be free of the enemy that opresses you, otherwise you may never get free even if you were blocked from HN. Forgiveness is key to your freedom and important for your health also.

I hope for you a better tomorrow
Kathi

October 11, 2010 at 12:34 am#219480

Participant

I agree LU, we know dont we Iv found this forum can get addictive. Changing a password is something that would work. (But it's just as easy to open up a new account)

Kerwin and all, once here I was so angry I was ready to fight and when I do fight I fight. But I felt it was a test of what I had learnt. And previous to that I had come through hard times (In real life) calmly unbelievably different. So with what angered me on the forum I prayed for help to say the right thing. And I humbled myself and apologised and said no more even though I had felt I was the victim. God is the judge. We all have to answer for the way we approach things.

Something iv since learnt is how important it is to maintain it. Its easy to fall back into the same anger again. So to keep that mind is important.

A few other times I did the opposite and fighted back while angry. Did I feel better ? No. Far from it. Just like in real life, I never felt good after argueing with people.

However fighting for an innocent victim is something I do feel ok about.

I believe we get tested in many ways. I would advise people if you feel upset and angry pray about it. Learn what scripture says. One day if things get bad in the world, eg the great tribulation, we need to be ready for it,

Hope im not rambling,

October 11, 2010 at 1:15 am#219484

Ed J

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2010,09:30)

Mike Boll 64,

So please keep your own anger, frustration, and hurt in check by letting God work through you. Thank you! :cool:

Hi Kerwin,

Um, excuse me, but, you can hardly blame MikeBoll64 for Martians outbursts!
Martian chose (out of his Free Will of course) to interact with Mike, now he is frustrated because
Mike will not relent! No-one put Martian in charge over Mike, though, by Martians words he(Martian) may believe he is?

Martian: want's to be in charge over men, and it is apparent by him wanting to be 'a bishop' or something!
Martian needs to grow up spiritually and stop acting like a adolescent child who doesn't get his way!

Shimmer: does seem to support those with 'bad' behavior,
because it is the same weakness in her own character.
Anger and blaming those who see things differently!

I: however, will NOT support those with 'bad' behavior!; And will take a stand!
That includes you Kerwin: who chose to support those who support 'bad' behavior!
That does not mean I think Martian deserves any consequences for his 'bad' behavior;
he is obviously hurting and it is our Christian responsibility to coddle him in his hour of need!

Um, excuse me Kerwin, but, MikeBoll64 is NOT the problem here!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 11, 2010 at 2:01 am#219499

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 11 2010,08:49)

I see that you try to remain calm most times and what you have to put up with.

Hi Shimmer,

Well I'm glad you at least noticed that. I would encourage you and Kerwin to look back through this thread and the early pages of the Phil 2 thread and see the comments that Irene and I have put up with from Martian. And why? Because we were “evil” enough to quote scriptures to him.

And while you're at it, find the worst thing I ever said to him. I laughed and let his insults roll off my back in order to possibly make him actually LOOK at the “evil” scriptures Irene and I were posting to him. I even made a joke about how it was those nasty posts that earned him those pretty little blocks by his name………although I personally never reported any of his hateful posts, nor gave him a block myself.

It's like deja vu with your comment to Kangaroo Jack, Shimmer. Remember….the one I got angry about? You stepped in at the end of a discussion that ended up with Jack losing his editing rights because he was suspected of changing his posts way after the fact in a way that was deceitful. He flat out put words I never said in my mouth to “win” the discussion……and that's right where you stepped in and sided with him without reading enough of the last couple of pages to know he was being deceitful.

You have done it again here, but this time I'm not angry at all……just confused as to why you keep doing it. You said, “I liked you”, so I take that to mean you don't anymore. I can live with that. You don't have to like me in order to learn from me…..and visa versa.

Case in point: Martian. It was abundantly clear from the beginning of our pre-existence discussion that he didn't like me. Why would he? I was the guy shoving scriptures that disproved his “wish” for Jesus to be exactly like us in his face. And at the start it was just me debating against at least 5 non-preexisters. I put up with a lot of ridicules and insults and “ganging up”. Where were you then? Why didn't you come to MY defense?

I hope you see the point I'm trying to make. I don't need you to defend me, I have scripture for that. I just wish that you'd read a few pages back before “defending” someone else against the “evil” Mike.

And I also wish you wouldn't make excuses for poor behavior like some mothers seem to do for their children. It's called “coddling”, and it helps kids develop a false “I'm always in the right because Mommy defends me no matter what I do” attitude. It is a big part of what's wrong with our generation. Solomon said, “Spare the rod, spoil the child”, yet today people's poor behavior is always someone elses fault – not their own. They always have a defender – even if they're in the wrong. Little Johnny punched little Susie and gave her a black eye – but it's not his fault because Susie called him stupid. So it's really Susie's fault that she got punched in the eye. Whatever happened to facing your own consequences for you own poor behavior?

Anyway, THAT'S what you call “rambling on”!

mike

October 11, 2010 at 2:18 am#219504

Blocked

Hi Ed,

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I agree with every word you posted except the “coddling” part. I personally think people who want help should not scream, “Hey! You idiots and miscreants! Help me or else!”

At least I know if I wanted help, I sure wouldn't scream at the ones who had the power and FREE WILL to choose whether to help me or not.

You and I are a good case in point for this discussion, Ed. We disagree on certain points, but have yet to “scream” at each other over our disagreements. What does it prove anyway……that the one with the most hateful insults “wins” over the words of scripture?

I thought I had that same kind of relationship with Kerwin. But him calling the scriptures I quoted “the hurt I inadvertently caused” and “the evil of others that Martian must suffer” makes me wonder. Anyway, I just hope he answers my points.

Thank you for that post.

peace and love,
mike

October 11, 2010 at 2:35 am#219507

Ed J

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 11 2010,13:18)

Hi Ed,

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I agree with every word you posted except the “coddling” part. I personally think people who want help should not scream, “Hey! You idiots and miscreants! Help me or else!”

At least I know if I wanted help, I sure wouldn't scream at the ones who had the power and FREE WILL to choose whether to help me or not.

Thank you for that post.

peace and love,
mike

Hey Mike,

When we disagree, it's not my place to convince you.
It's God's place to do the convincing in both of us!

Daniel 11:32: And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he(2Thess.2:4) corrupt by flatteries:
but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. And they that understand
among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity,
and by spoil, many days. Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but
many shall cleave to them with flatteries. And some of them of understanding shall fall, to
try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because
it is yet for a time appointed.

Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

October 11, 2010 at 3:05 am#219510

Participant

Ed J.

Both Mike Boll and Martian are displaying bad fruit, whether one or another started it is irrelevant. They both need to see they are falling short of being righteous as God is righteous and confess their sin knowing that he will cleanse them of the desire to give in to Satan's wiles.

God is testing their hearts and I hope their eyes become open so they each grow more mature in our Lord Jesus the Anointed. That is why I consider myself and others to be only students seeking to be holy and righteous as God is.

October 11, 2010 at 3:28 am#219512

Blocked

Hi Kerwin,

I offered you and Shimmer a challenge to show my “bad fruit” concerning Martian. Put your money where your judgemental mouth is and show where I tried to do anything except lead him back into the discussion and to an understanding of what certain scriptures plainly said.

And while you're at it, maybe you could attempt answering my last posts to you. That “human being” one seems to have all of you non-preexisters stumped. And one scripture is all you have to eventually acknowledge in order to stop butchering the other ones in an attempt to make them mean things like “it was the thought of Jesus in God's mind that had glory in His presence before the creation of the world”.

peace and love,
mike

October 11, 2010 at 3:38 am#219514

Participant

Mike, and Ed, Mike if I can be really honest, really honest….I found your posts have too much word study and (what is it…net bible ?) so I stopped reading them ? Ok, hit me over the head if you can, but maybe thats why I seem not to defend you and seem to take sides ? I do the same with Ed (sorry Ed) As your posts Ed have usually just scripture and numbers and repeated things I dont read them anymore. WOW Ed, that last posts you did I read, because it was you speaking. JAs posts get my attention because they are his own words and though scripture isnt always quoted Jesus said “The Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say” I can understand that. Just like Gene and some others do. So thats probably what the problem is and I apologise if I have seemed like this.

I had a friend who was really spiritual, and she used to pray for/with/ people. She would see things with the person as shown to her by the Holy Spirit without needing to ask questions of anyone or of the person. If she saw someone angry and upset she would approach it from the wanting to help point of view which is probably what I do sometimes. Pushing aside everyones else while at it.

And no I havent read this whole thread but later tonight I might.

The problem is with a forum none of it is proper speech. If a group are talking everyones point is heard where in a forum people often only read some posts. And in reality conversations dont stay on topic !

Mike, When I said I liked you before, I didnt mean I dont anymore, only that I dont pay much attention to you anymore ! ok, I might pay a bit more attention and read some of your posts, sorry.

And if my posts sometimes dont make sense Im probably being distracted, I have a young son here who talks quite a bit.

October 11, 2010 at 3:53 am#219517

JustAskin

Participant

Hey All.
See the honesty and forthrightness in Shimmer's post.
There is Meekness, there sorrow, there is righteousness, there is honesty.
Of such ones God seeks, as Scriptures says.

You may, we may, all, take a leaf out of Shimmer's book.

Shimmer, that was Holy Spirited and awe inspiring.

October 11, 2010 at 4:29 am#219525

Ed J

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 11 2010,14:53)

Hey All.
See the honesty and forthrightness in Shimmer's post.
There is Meekness, there sorrow, there is righteousness, there is honesty.
Of such ones God seeks, as Scriptures says.

You may, we may, all, take a leaf out of Shimmer's book.

Shimmer, that was Holy Spirited and awe inspiring.

Hi JustAskin,

Are you implying that those you don't agree with are not Holy Spirited?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 11, 2010 at 5:07 am#219532

Blocked

Hi Shimmer,

I have no problem with or grudge against you. You did what you did. I posted my honest feelings about it. And you responded with yours. I respect that and think we completely understand where the other is coming from now. That's a good thing and is called “communication”!

Please understand that sites like NETBible show the actual Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts that have been translated into English by mere mortal men like us. And I'm sure you've noticed the varied English translations of the same exact scripture. In fact, we discussed the word “knowing” verses the words “taking in knowledge of” once…….remember?

I don't know how YOU decide which translation is “better” or more faithful to the original text, but I go and read the actual original words that were written and make an informed decision.

One should never “sign on the dotted line” until they are completely sure of what they are signing off on.

And it's funny that you prefer the “storytime” posts of JA and Gene……because they are my least favorite kind to deal with. To me, it seems a bunch of “huffing and puffing” about their personal beliefs about scripture as a whole without ever really refuting the scripture you posted or listing any of their own for support. But that just goes to show – to each his own.

I'll stick with the factual, scriptural way I do things, thanks. And if you read some – great. And if you don't – great. Either way, at least we are all doing it the way that makes us happy, and who's to judge which way is “better” anyway?

Btw, I gave JA a NETNotes/WetNanny quiz in the procreation thread……but he hasn't responded yet.

peace and love,
mike

October 11, 2010 at 10:00 am#219547

Participant

Communication is good Mike

I agree with word study, I had never heard of what you use (NETbible) I use YLT apparently the literal word by word translation, well as you say all done to the best of mans ability.

I studied scriptual words a while back, in regards to the 'eternal torment doctrine' and word changes make a big difference,

Regarding people like JAs posts I do learn alot from them. Maybe it's just me. I liked alot of Nicks posts too !

Ok well it's late here and I don't have much to say, but , thanks Mike.

October 11, 2010 at 3:09 pm#219554