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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2010,16:22) Quote (Ed J @ June 16 2010,15:31) Quote (Ed J @ June 14 2010,04:48) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 14 2010,02:28) ED J………..Get rid of the numbers , you can do a far better job without them brother! IMO peace and love………………..gene
Hi Gene,You mean like all the convincing you have done (with others) since you have been here?
Titus -:- Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by
sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. (Rom. –:- / Luke –:–)Rom.–:- Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity;
he that ruleth (Here), with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness. (Ps.—:-)Luke –:– For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your
adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.Ed J
PS> Much better; huh?
bumb for Gene
ED J ……..anyone can quote scripture to twist or alter what is being discussed, this is he oldest game in history. If you can't make sense of something just alter the focus as i see you have shown here your are a master at. But the bottom line is no one here understand your numbers system here, I nor anyone as far as i can tell. Secondly many here have agreed with thing i have Posted not all but many have and at times and many have disagreed with me , But i don not try to run a number system to try to find the truth of GOD, and i see no where in History that has been done either or where we are told to do that.
I am certain if God has given you a mouth of wisdom it/s not going to be a number game. IMOpeace and love…………….gene
Hi Gene,Don't you think it is rather silly for you to blame me for what you don't understand. (1Cor.2:14)
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi all,
Are we claiming the seven spirits to be angels now?
To and fro the earth doesnt conclude that they are angels.
Yet distinctivily only cherbium out of the angels have access to the thrown (i think, correct me if im wrong)These seven spirits are mention again and again in revelations.
Lets stop speculating and take it for what scripture is saying.Scripture says the seven spirits of God, says this, or they are in the thrown room.
the seven eyes of the lamb.When it says the seven spirits of God,
its a big difference between that and Bene-elohim, which are the sons of God.
We are children of light, but we are not THE light.
Yet these seven Spirits are THee God.explain this.
p.s. Ed J, My weakest subject is Math, and numbers. Im a quick learner though,
I learn to understand numbers first you have to understand foundation, and formulas.
Give me somethign to build on, because numbers are a differnt language for me.
i can only take your word for it, and i cannot study that on my own since i have no foundation nor biblical study on such things.
i heard of the bible code, and differnt methods.
Just dumb it down for me.*Editing: Spelling Errors
SF……………..Eyes are symbolic language used in scripture, they represent Spirits (intellects) of GOD, the four living creatures surrounding the throne of GOD have three sets of wing (that which lifts up) full of eyes (spirits of God), God spirit does lift up the Mind and understanding of His childern. IMO
Peace and love……………………gene
Dennison,
I was addressing certain Jewish beliefs linked to the Old Testament interpretation. You can disagree with those beliefs if you chose. That is on you.
The belief is that the seven eyes mentioned in Zachariah 4:10 are held to be Seven Archangels. In some Eastern orthodox Christian sects they are said to be Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Selaphiel, and Jedudiel and have their own sphere of influence. In other sects their names change.
They may also be called Watchers at Nick pointed out though I had thought that was another group of angels.
The Bene-elohim is a generic group that include all of God's true followers humans, angels, or anyone else. It was also extended to the Hebrew people who received the Law but those who rebelled were later cut from God.
John being a Jew most likely was aware of the Jewish tenet and may well held it to be true. He felt no compunction to explain it to his audience of that time who were either directly aware of it because of their Jewish heritage or would learn of it in conversation with their fellow believers of Jewish heritage. Revelations was not directly addressed to us of this ignorant age though we can learn from it.
Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2010,07:20) Dennison, I was addressing certain Jewish beliefs linked to the Old Testament interpretation. You can disagree with those beliefs if you chose. That is on you.
The belief is that the seven eyes mentioned in Zachariah 4:10 are held to be Seven Archangels. In some Eastern orthodox Christian sects they are said to be Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Selaphiel, and Jedudiel and have their own sphere of influence. In other sects their names change.
They may also be called Watchers at Nick pointed out though I had thought that was another group of angels.
The Bene-elohim is a generic group that include all of God's true followers humans, angels, or anyone else. It was also extended to the Hebrew people who received the Law but those who rebelled were later cut from God.
John being a Jew most likely was aware of the Jewish tenet and may well held it to be true. He felt no compunction to explain it to his audience of that time who were either directly aware of it because of their Jewish heritage or would learn of it in conversation with their fellow believers of Jewish heritage. Revelations was not directly addressed to us of this ignorant age though we can learn from it.
Kerwin,Im very aware about the jewish beliefs about the Angels in the old testament interpretation. I have even read the book of enoch where they name the angels which that are not named in the bible.
Even though i rather take no sides to such a topic because this would be untopical.
We have to many sects to hold anything sects say as truth. we can only take what the bible says, and what God reveals to us as truth.
Bene-elohim wasnt used frequently in the bible. and mostly it always talked abuot angels. Show me a verse that says it was exteneded to those who accpeted the law?
The gospel of John and revelations were not written to jews, we cannot assume that John found it correct to use Jewish heritage to explain his view.
Why because the gospel of John was written to the church, (not jewish). and Revelations was sent to seven churches.
Its easier to assume that they didnt understand the things he wrote, than to assume they understood jewish heritage either way its speculating.John felt many computcion to explain to his audeince about what he was thinking, espeacily in the Gospel of John. he made several references and expalining what he meant. for example Jesus said out of yoru belly comes rivers of living water, later John wrote, (speaking he of the holy spirit) and what not.
John was more than willing to make his letters understandable.
Revelations hasnt happened yet, we are not meant to understand it compeletly until it happens.
Again, take what scripture says not for what is not said.
Again im going back to the main point which is the seven spirits of God.
being a spirit of God, and having the Spirit of God is too differnt things.
God is the God of everything, but Everything is not God.
do you understand what im saying?
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,00:43) Ed J, * My weakest subject is Math, and numbers. I'm a quick learner though,
I learn to understand numbers first you have to understand foundation, and formulas.
Give me something to build on, because numbers are a different language for me.
I can only take your word for it, and I cannot study that on my own since
I have no foundation nor biblical study on such things.
I heard of the bible code, and different methods.
Just dumb it down for me.*Editing: Spelling Errors
Hi SF,Your question is VERY unspecific?
What do you want me to tell you?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd J,
It wasnt a question it was a statement,you bumped me.
I cant really commment much on your posts because i cant compelelty understand them.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,09:46) Ed J,
It wasn't a question, it was a statement.You bumped me.
I can't really comment much on your posts, because I can't completely understand them.
Hi SF,OK, sorry; I thought there was more you wanted to know.
Don't you have “spell check” on your computer?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgDennison,
I do not go by any of the books of Enoch we have today nor do the Jews whose beliefs I spoke of since there tenet is based on Old Testiment scripture.
Many of the beliefs expressed by Jesus and his followers are Jewish beliefs from the one true tradition. If you claim to follow his teachings then your beliefs also will come from that tradition that is followed by the prophets and partriarches of the Hebrew nations. Too many have chosen to abandon those roots and in doing so have abandoned the truth.
I was showing a continuation of the tenet between the Jewish religions and Christian religions. All that means is there may be a kernel a truth in it unless it was later borrowed from the Jews by Christian sects.
As for the Bene-elohim the Isrealites are called Children of God in Deuteronomy 14:1. It is what God meant when he stated he called them “gods” in Psalms. I think he referred to them as gods in a few other places as well.
John wrote his letter to the church and the church had a number of Jews in it at that time. I believe Paul addresses Jews in most if not all the churches he wrote to. I certainly saw such mention in Romans which I just read some of this morning. There is also Gentiles and probably even the majority was Gentile in the Gentile cities but they had the Jews to ask if they did not understand something.
Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2010,15:23) Dennison, I do not go by any of the books of Enoch we have today nor do the Jews whose beliefs I spoke of since there tenet is based on Old Testiment scripture.
Many of the beliefs expressed by Jesus and his followers are Jewish beliefs from the one true tradition. If you claim to follow his teachings then your beliefs also will come from that tradition that is followed by the prophets and partriarches of the Hebrew nations. Too many have chosen to abandon those roots and in doing so have abandoned the truth.
I was showing a continuation of the tenet between the Jewish religions and Christian religions. All that means is there may be a kernel a truth in it unless it was later borrowed from the Jews by Christian sects.
As for the Bene-elohim the Isrealites are called Children of God in Deuteronomy 14:1. It is what God meant when he stated he called them “gods” in Psalms. I think he referred to them as gods in a few other places as well.
John wrote his letter to the church and the church had a number of Jews in it at that time. I believe Paul addresses Jews in most if not all the churches he wrote to. I certainly saw such mention in Romans which I just read some of this morning. There is also Gentiles and probably even the majority was Gentile in the Gentile cities but they had the Jews to ask if they did not understand something.
Kerwin,
i didnt say that our beliefs had nothing to do with jewish tradition.What im saying is that one cannot asumme the writer of the gospels were strictly using only jewish beliefs. You cannot assume that John only wrote refferring to things that only jews believe.
Dennison,
It is my belief that the Gentile Christian also understood these things though they were taught them after converting. It would probably be the newer members, if any, that needed things explained to them.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 08 2010,01:41) To ALL…….The basic Problem here is Most do not even know what SPIRIT IS. So we get all these speculations and confusions about it. SPIRIT is in SIMPLEST TERMS (INTELLECT) and there are Many. There is clean and unclean spirits (intellects) there are Evil and Good Spirits (intellects) there is the Spirit (intellect) of Peace, there is Holy Spirit (special intellects of God). The Spirit (intellect) of TRUTH, which is considered the earnest Gift from GOD to US in order for us to Perceive what is true or not , this intellect of truth or Spirit both accuses us and defends us, the Spirit (intellect) of truth is crucial in Changing us in our minds to think more like GOD Thinks, it changes our perceptions of things, it is the anchor of the soul. Without it we are like ships without a rudder to guide it. IMO peace and love to you all……………..gene
Gene, are you looking forward to an intellectual body?I am looking forward to a spiritual one.
Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2010,16:22) Dennison, It is my belief that the Gentile Christian also understood these things though they were taught them after converting. It would probably be the newer members, if any, that needed things explained to them.
kerwin,you can believe that all you want, i respect that. but to hold it has fact or biblical truth is incorrect.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,11:25) Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2010,16:22) Dennison, It is my belief that the Gentile Christian also understood these things though they were taught them after converting. It would probably be the newer members, if any, that needed things explained to them.
kerwin,you can believe that all you want, i respect that. but to hold it has fact or biblical truth is incorrect.
You do realize that you are arguing that the Eleven were incompetent as I was not necessary speaking of the particular tenet I mentioned but rather those Jewish beliefs that are the background of scripture. I am afraid that not all these beliefs were written down simply because they felt confident their hearers knew what they were speaking about. That was true at the time but not so much nowadays.Quote (t8 @ June 17 2010,16:23) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 08 2010,01:41) To ALL…….The basic Problem here is Most do not even know what SPIRIT IS. So we get all these speculations and confusions about it. SPIRIT is in SIMPLEST TERMS (INTELLECT) and there are Many. There is clean and unclean spirits (intellects) there are Evil and Good Spirits (intellects) there is the Spirit (intellect) of Peace, there is Holy Spirit (special intellects of God). The Spirit (intellect) of TRUTH, which is considered the earnest Gift from GOD to US in order for us to Perceive what is true or not , this intellect of truth or Spirit both accuses us and defends us, the Spirit (intellect) of truth is crucial in Changing us in our minds to think more like GOD Thinks, it changes our perceptions of things, it is the anchor of the soul. Without it we are like ships without a rudder to guide it. IMO peace and love to you all……………..gene
Gene, are you looking forward to an intellectual body?I am looking forward to a spiritual one.
T8…….> I sure am looking forward to a body like the one Jesus was raised with and i sure hope I have (Spirit) Intellect in it to as Jesus does in His raised Body . He is a complete (SOUL) a Body with Spirit (INTELLECT) in it. That is good enough for me brother. The BODIES we will have in the future will be different in that the Spirit of Life will be active working in them , they will be Spirit generated and never die because we will have been given to eat from the tree of life . It says that as we have born the IMAGE of the Earthly we shall bare the image of the Heavenly , there is an earthly body (which we have now) and there is a Heavenly body we will recieve. But both are (BODIES) , no difference except one can die and the other can not die. Nowhere does scripture say Jesus exchanged His resurected Body for a spirit body , But Jesus said a spirit does (NOT) have flesh and bone as you see I have. The only one who exists as a begin without a body is GOD , even angles have bodies of some kind they can be seen, touched and eat, Manna was called angles food, Jesus went through a door with his resurrected Body right, appeared and disappeared , went up into heave with it also and is coming back the same way it says.The concept of a body being Spirit is wrong IMO, Spirit is what is (IN) a Body, Body + Spirit = a SOUL, one can not exist with out the other in a person or being. God must resurrect us a BODY and ADD Spirit back into it or we would parish for ever. A resurrection is vital for our future existence if we die before Jesus comes. IMO
peace and love to you and your………………………gene
I edit my prior post when I discovered I dropped the word “of”. I hope no one was confused because of that error on my part.
Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2010,16:44) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,11:25) Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2010,16:22) Dennison, It is my belief that the Gentile Christian also understood these things though they were taught them after converting. It would probably be the newer members, if any, that needed things explained to them.
kerwin,you can believe that all you want, i respect that. but to hold it has fact or biblical truth is incorrect.
You do realize that you are arguing that the Eleven were incompetent as I was not necessary speaking of the particular tenet I mentioned but rather those Jewish beliefs that are the background of scripture. I am afraid that not all these beliefs were written down simply because they felt confident their hearers knew what they were speaking about. That was true at the time but not so much nowadays.
I never said the Twelve for incompetent,
I said that nessarily we cannot say this certain verse had to do with Jewish tradition nor anything else to that point. We cannot say that John wrote this in mind with Jewish traditions. that is speculation.Not what is stated within the verse. Revelations was not written in Johns own way, it was written according to his visions. And it was directed to the churches who marjority was probably gentiles. Either or, if we want to argue Johns intent, it irrevalent to argue that he did things in mind with the Jewish culture, because Paul made it clear that they needed to be open in some aspects mostly about circumsion.
We cannot state that these churches were strict about Jewish laws and customs nor say that they were.We just do not know,
therefore to not speculate,lets take what scripture says, the Bible doesnt need anything extra. ITs the Word of God.
Dennison,
We actually do know that in general that the teachings of Scripture are taught on a background of the Jewish culture because that culture is based on scripture. According to the Jews you cannot have one without the other as their culture is about belief in God. There were a variety of different Jewish beliefs and we do not know which ones are the background of scripture except for certain evidence of scripture that points toward those beliefs. The teaching by Paul about the Third Heaven is one example of this.
I do admit I am not necessary sure how important knowing the correct teaching is in these case since they often do not seem pertenant to the good news of the Kingdome of Heaven.
So all Christians become Jews of a type in that they do the things of God and believe what Jews like Isaiah, Malachi, Moses, and many others also believe and those beliefs are Jewish.
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