Second chance salvation

Participant

Hi GB,
There are many who have lived and are buried who will not be raised till the end of that time at the judgement. They have had their chance and can hope only for the mercy of God to the merciful or to be found in some other way saved by God's soveriegn choice. We cannot add our own ideas to scripture to show how we think God would act to be fair.

July 18, 2008 at 4:15 am#98080

Participant

Nick…….show me one thing i said that i added my own ideas to what scripture plainly said, I quoted scripture just as it says. God Will do what he wants to do with or without you permission.
Who are you to say what he will do, I only quoted Scripture that showed He mercy and love for His creation (all of it) and if He is (NOT WILLING) that any PARISH< Who are you to try to disprove that, if you cant stand that then tough. You don't tell God what, when, or how ,He will do what he wants to little man, You are on dangerous ground Nick.

July 18, 2008 at 5:00 am#98082

Participant

You're talking about the “rapture” and the “left-behind” Christians, right?
That's a bunch of malarky.
The catching away happens in connection with the return of Christ Matt 24:31, which is the same event as when the virgins “wake up” from death Matt 25+Rev 11:11,12, which is the resurrection from the dead Philippians 3:11, which, at the same moment, Jesus rewards the saints and brings His wrath against disobedience. There is no interval between the resurrection and wrath John 6:40,44,54; 11:24; 12:48 it is simultaneous; however, it is that during the outpouring of wrath, the saints will also be tried Rom 2:5; therefore, in Rev 16:15, it is possible that their nakedness be seen, and they be ashamed; these people are tossed out of the wedding feast Matt 22:11-13.
Really, this topic must be studied in depth – and most definitely by a team of people. There's a point where it becomes just too much.

But as for “second-chance” — we are living the second chance God has given Adam right now:

No christians will “make it through” the great tribulation and repopulate the earth:
it is the three first beasts of Daniel 7:12 who repopulate the earth under the iron rod of Jesus and the saints, who will rule over the cities of the earth Luke 19:17 with power.
Those who do not follow the law of Moses will be punished, since at this time, the law of Moses will be in power: we are living in the time of the increase of knowledge — and all that knowledge will justify the law of Moses, which is said to be “the perfection of knowledge”, and put it into effect. Therefore, “And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.” Zech 14:18, just as the Law states.

July 18, 2008 at 5:27 pm#98102

Participant

The 1000 year period is Spiritual Leaders given power over carnal man. For one purpose to prove a simple point, that no matter if man has perfect government and laws and no evil influence, they will still fall. The point, unless GOd is (IN) a person the can not maintain doing right , no matter how righteous they become (ON) there own. God must be in a person by his Holt Spirit, that why all the world follows evil, when it released at the end of the 1000 year period. God proves His point. “It is not with in a man to direct his path”.

peace …….gene

July 18, 2008 at 6:43 pm#98106

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 19 2008,05:27)

peace …….gene

Uncertain…

Even if you did go by Rev 20:5, the judgment taking place after the millenium, there are some whose names are written in the Book of Life. Some will be saved, or it would not be written in Isaiah 65:20
“There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner -“
Here, there is a counter-indication, a distinguising between the state of the sinner and the state of those who are blessed with longevity.
At the end of the 1,000, there is another falling away, following Biblical type and shadowing, but this is “hidden manna”. Satan fell away from the Kingdom of God, Judas did, the Son of Perdition to come will, and the only way for satan to be released again would be in this manner. We do not know that the righteous of that time will NOT be filled with the Spirit of God. Even David, at a time when there was no blood-sacrifice given by Jesus, was filled with the Spirit.
Also, it is not the “whole world”, even though it says so; Scripture must be tempered by Scripture; and if you were to follow this reasoning, you would arrive to the same deluded assumptions that many Bible “scholars” arrive at today: the rapture and the left-behind Christians having adventures and somehow making it through the Great Affliction, to repopulate the earth; whereas if you simply go back to Daniel 11:12, you see the truth: the first 3 beasts are left alive for a time and a season (1,000 year reign). It is very likely the same is true in this case. After the 1,000-year reign is another resurrection of the dead who died without ever hearing about Jesus Christ. “Judgment must begin at the House of God.”=first resurrection, wherefore Daniel 12:2 states that some rise to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame and contempt Matt 25:30, 46; 30-46.
Now we are using two very untrustworthy documents, but here we go: Revelation and Enoch 108 (the fourth book of Enoch, containing 108, disagrees with Genesis and Revelation disagrees, seemingly, with Daniel), but I digress, Enoch 108 talks about those who were born in darkness, but behaved themselves as children of light, and therefore will be accounted together with the generation of light. This is likely at the second resurrection, where those who are not found written in the Book of Life are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Why would the Book of Life be taken out and checked if NO ONE was in it?

July 18, 2008 at 6:47 pm#98107

Participant

John seemed to make such great, sweeping statements:

” No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

You have to really know the author.

The same as “every man, slave and free…” etc.,

July 18, 2008 at 10:11 pm#98111

942767

Participant

Hi:

All have a chance to believe the gospel and be saved while they are alive until the door is shut just as it as the door to the ark was shut in the days of Noah.

In these endtimes once someone receives the mark of the beast there is no more salvation:

Quote

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness

No second chance if one has died in their sins or if someone has received the mark of the beast.

Quote

1Pe 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

July 19, 2008 at 8:18 am#98190

Participant

Quote (Hanoch @ July 19 2008,06:47)

John seemed to make such great, sweeping statements:

” No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

You have to really know the author.

The same as “every man, slave and free…” etc.,

Hi Hanoch,
One John should be read with idealisation in view.
It is true that those who are sons of God should not sin but in the same letter he says we do[Ch1].
Such is the wisdom of God with which John was deeply blessed.

July 19, 2008 at 12:52 pm#98205

Irene

Participant

Paul says, we are saved by faith and not by works. So what works would you want to judge those by, that have never heard the name Jesus?
And how can they get their name into the book of life, if not given a chance to hear and to believe? Paul did ask that same question, Rom. 10:13-14.

Georg

July 19, 2008 at 7:05 pm#98225

Participant

The heavens have preached the invisible attributes of God to all men.
Enoch teaches out of the wisdom of nature, and so does Jesus; it is possible that there are some who have learned from the sermons nature teaches, “…being a law unto themselves.” Rom. 2:14
If not, where did the Magi come from? Nature taught them. Who informed them that a Savior would be born?
Actually, for the first part of China's history, they were monotheistic, believing in one God. Interestingly, one of their Kings would honor God one day of the year and say a certain prayer, I forget the entire length of it, but it's something like.. “you have treated us even as a father has treats his children…”
No one taught him to behave like this; he learned it from nature.
This may have something to do with the earth swallowing the torrent of lies the dragon spews out of his mouth in Rev 12:16
“And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.”

October 2, 2008 at 9:10 pm#109471

Participant

Hi,
This false teaching seems to have spawned from the WWCG.
It is a human rationalisation added by men to ensure all get to hear the gospel.

We do not add to the truth even to try to introduce our ideas of fairness.

October 28, 2008 at 3:14 am#111197

Participant

Nick…..i was in the WWCG and i never heard them say there was a second chance salvation. They taught that the world was basically blinded by false religions and they never had a first chance yet. But they taught that if your eyes were opened and you understood, you would be judged and if you failed you would be burned up. Is it wise to say things about people or organizations you have very little actual knowledge of. I am not defending the WWCG, in fact i disagree with most of there teachings then and now.

Peace……….gene

November 17, 2008 at 9:09 pm#112120

Participant

GB,
So the WWCG creates another FIRST CHANCE during the Millenium and you are oK with such additions?

November 25, 2008 at 5:37 am#112382

Participant

Nick……You don't know if God will give thousands of chances do you? Your just limiting Go to your conceptions which could be completely wrong. Jesus said if thy brother sin against you 7x 70 and ask for forgiveness (in one day) we are to forgive him ,how much more do you think God would Forgive a person who trespasses if He ask for forgiveness. Doesn't it say (WHOEVER CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED). We shouldn't limit our Heavenly Father to what he can or will do. imo

love and peace to you and yours……………….gene

November 25, 2008 at 6:17 am#112389

Participant

GB,
We should not imagine ways of God that are not written and teach them because of our ideas.
We do not teach what we imagine might happen if we were God.
Just show what is written and leave the rest to Him.

November 25, 2008 at 5:17 pm#112404

Participant

Nick…..I did show what is written , Do you honestly think Jesus would tell us to Do something God the Father would not do. ” For if you forgive not your brother his trespasses, neither will Your Heavenly Father forgive you your trespasses. And again ” two men went up to pray, a Pharisee and a Samaritan , and the Pharisee said i thank you God i am not like this sinner, i give tithes and etc, but the Samaritan did not even look up, but just smote his chest and said God forgive Me the sinner, Jesus said i tell you He was more justified Before God then the Pharisee. These are ways of God that are written Nick. God said He is not will any parish.

Again your positioning yourself as a Know it all, when in fact you show little understand of God or what Jesus said concerning Our Heavenly Father., A GOD who is (FULL) of MERCY and COMPASSION. Nick if you don't understand this you understand very little brother.

said in love Nick…………….gene

November 25, 2008 at 5:40 pm#112407

Participant

GB,
Logic should not be added to scripture.
Humanism is a popular alternative to what is written.

November 25, 2008 at 6:01 pm#112410