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This topic is where we can collect the understanding of the early church father's (up to 300 AD) regarding the day of the week that they gathered to worship together and their reasons for it.
This is not a topic which lends itself to begin a debate but for a collection of the early church father's understanding.
Feel free to add early church father's understandings as you come across them.
kathi
witch one,we have similar believes today ,why is it you want to go were there is no Godly believes but believes of men??
all those so called fathers of the early church were apostates,they sold there faith for 30 coins.
many of the true Christians were put to dead for there believe in God and his son Christ ,so they are not the early fathers of the church.
all of the fathers of the early church that is after John the apostles and a few more,were apostates.
Pierre
Justin, the Martyr:
67. After these [services] we constantly remind each other of these things. Those who have more come to the aid of those who lack, and we are constantly together. Over all that we receive we bless the Maker of all things through his Son Jesus Christ and through the Holy Spirit.821821Not merely a general statement, but a reference to the custom, binding on Christians as on Jews, of giving thanks to God before receiving his gifts, which makes every meal a sacred act; cf. Chapter 13. And on the day called Sunday there is a meeting in one place of those who live in cities or the country, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read as long as time permits. When the reader has finished, the president in a discourse urges and invites [us] to the imitation of these noble things. Then we all stand up together and offer prayers. And, as said before, when we have finished the prayer, bread is brought, and wine and water, and the president similarly sends up prayers and thanksgivings to the best of his ability, and the congregation assents, saying the Amen; the distribution, and reception of the consecrated [elements] by each one, takes place and they are sent to the absent by the deacons. Those who prosper, and who so wish, contribute, each one as much as he chooses to. The emphasis on the purely voluntary character of these contributions may have a legal purpose, to stress that the unlicensed Christian societies did not profess to collect dues). What is collected is deposited with the president, and he takes care of orphans and widows, and those who are in want on account of sickness or any other cause, and those who are in bonds, and the strangers who are sojourners among [us], and, briefly, he is the protector of all those in need. We all hold this common gathering on Sunday, since it is the first day, on which God transforming darkness and matter made the universe, and Jesus Christ our Saviour rose from the dead on the same day. For they crucified him on the day before Saturday, and on the day after Saturday, he appeared to his apostles and disciples and taught them these things which I have passed on to you also for your serious consideration.
Pierre,
I do not know why you say such things. There were many writings from those who followed God and His Son. Some of them were put to death after they had written down many things that we can read today. Justin, the Martyr who gave the quote above this post was martyred for his faith in God and His Christ and the Spirit. We have many of his writings. He was martyred between 162 and 168 AD. He was not an apostate who sold his faith…he died for his faith.Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 07 2010,23:38) Pierre,
I do not know why you say such things. There were many writings from those who followed God and His Son. Some of them were put to death after they had written down many things that we can read today. Justin, the Martyr who gave the quote above this post was martyred for his faith in God and His Christ and the Spirit. We have many of his writings. He was martyred between 162 and 168 AD. He was not an apostate who sold his faith…he died for his faith.
Kathihe was not a early father, he was just a christian and took the scriptures as true.
those like him are in all ages even today,
his live is his before God,he did not bring anything more than the scriptures have given us.
so stick to the scriptures that s exactly what he did except for a few variation.
to me he is not a saint , because i do not know him,but the scriptures i do know.Pierre
Kathi, why do you put value how the fist Fathers worshiped? We have the Bible to show us who we should or should not worship……. I think that you put more value on those Fathers then the Bible, which is God's Word……Why?
??
Almighty God is above all, and it is Him we all should Worship.Psa 82:1 ¶ [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the God.
Psa 86:8 Among the gods [there is] none like unto thee, O LORD; neither [are there any works] like unto thy works.
Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.
Isa 42:8 I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Some translations say Jehovah God.
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.
Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
This is what Jesus said in
Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Because of these Scriptures I worship Almighty God and Father only……
Peace Irene
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2010,16:20) kathi witch one,we have similar believes today ,why is it you want to go were there is no Godly believes but believes of men??
all those so called fathers of the early church were apostates,they sold there faith for 30 coins.
many of the true Christians were put to dead for there believe in God and his son Christ ,so they are not the early fathers of the church.
all of the fathers of the early church that is after John the apostles and a few more,were apostates.
Pierre
Greetings Pierre…..We cannot overlook the fact that the early fathers of the church were Jews and they kept the sabbitical law which included Saturday worship as well as the appointed of the holy days as per Lev:23….These were the early followers of Jesus( The Christ)….They are known to us as the apostles of christ and they practised a form of christianity that included obedience to Torah or Law,which incudes alot of what we consider Jewery today….This was known as apostolic christianty….The sole purpose of the council that convened in Nicea was to remove any resemblence of Jewery from the newly formed universal church which established Easter,Christmas along with the deification of men as saints to be worshipped…Jesus said he did not come to change a dot or a title,but he came to fullfill the scripture and prophesy…..If you read Lev:23 you will see thet the Eternal was quite clear in his decree and that was “these statutes are to be kept from generation to generation even unto forever….so far I have not found any retractions from the almighty regarding these statutes…..In closing we should keep in mind the words Jesus spoke..” For they worship in vain,keeping traditions…the commandments of men”….Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 08 2010,08:28) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2010,16:20) kathi witch one,we have similar believes today ,why is it you want to go were there is no Godly believes but believes of men??
all those so called fathers of the early church were apostates,they sold there faith for 30 coins.
many of the true Christians were put to dead for there believe in God and his son Christ ,so they are not the early fathers of the church.
all of the fathers of the early church that is after John the apostles and a few more,were apostates.
Pierre
Greetings Pierre…..We cannot overlook the fact that the early fathers of the church were Jews and they kept the sabbitical law which included Saturday worship as well as the appointed of the holy days as per Lev:23….These were the early followers of Jesus( The Christ)….They are known to us as the apostles of christ and they practised a form of christianity that included obedience to Torah or Law,which incudes alot of what we consider Jewery today….This was known as apostolic christianty….The sole purpose of the council that convened in Nicea was to remove any resemblence of Jewery from the newly formed universal church which established Easter,Christmas along with the deification of men as saints to be worshipped…Jesus said he did not come to change a dot or a title,but he came to fullfill the scripture and prophesy…..If you read Lev:23 you will see thet the Eternal was quite clear in his decree and that was “these statutes are to be kept from generation to generation even unto forever….so far I have not found any retractions from the almighty regarding these statutes…..In closing we should keep in mind the words Jesus spoke..” For they worship in vain,keeping traditions…the commandments of men”….
Theodso in your view,we should keep up the Jewish sabbath ??
but scriptures are very clearly saying that there are no more Jews or Greeks(gentiles)but all are to become sons of God means obedient to God s will.now you talking about the sabbath and that we should observe it because it still is a ritual to be in power ??
but scriptures say that all the rituals were lost because the Jews hardly observe them in truth.
and so finally destroyed all temple and all that goes with it 70 AD.Jesus clearly shows that to worship, his followers would practice, is not on the out side practices but the ones who are coming from the hearth and in spirit,and so do not for that reason practice the sabbath; BUT LIVE IT;;;
now your views on the early fathers??who called them the early FATHERS? I would not call anyone my father but God,
the apostles were called the saints according to scriptures and that i do understand.
WE ALL WILL STAND THE TRIBUNAL OF CHRIST ALONE.
some of those Christians after John died,were fallowing the scriptures just as we do,and defend the truth by practicing it and make it known.NO CHANGE THERE.
the so called fathers joint the world of power and help to built the false churches,NOT TO DEFEND GODS LAWS AND CHRIST FALLOWERS ,BUT TO START TO GOVERN WITHOUT CHRIST,THATS CALLED THE APOSTASY.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2010,03:00) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 08 2010,08:28) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2010,16:20) kathi witch one,we have similar believes today ,why is it you want to go were there is no Godly believes but believes of men??
all those so called fathers of the early church were apostates,they sold there faith for 30 coins.
many of the true Christians were put to dead for there believe in God and his son Christ ,so they are not the early fathers of the church.
all of the fathers of the early church that is after John the apostles and a few more,were apostates.
Pierre
Greetings Pierre…..We cannot overlook the fact that the early fathers of the church were Jews and they kept the sabbitical law which included Saturday worship as well as the appointed of the holy days as per Lev:23….These were the early followers of Jesus( The Christ)….They are known to us as the apostles of christ and they practised a form of christianity that included obedience to Torah or Law,which incudes alot of what we consider Jewery today….This was known as apostolic christianty….The sole purpose of the council that convened in Nicea was to remove any resemblence of Jewery from the newly formed universal church which established Easter,Christmas along with the deification of men as saints to be worshipped…Jesus said he did not come to change a dot or a title,but he came to fullfill the scripture and prophesy…..If you read Lev:23 you will see thet the Eternal was quite clear in his decree and that was “these statutes are to be kept from generation to generation even unto forever….so far I have not found any retractions from the almighty regarding these statutes…..In closing we should keep in mind the words Jesus spoke..” For they worship in vain,keeping traditions…the commandments of men”….
Theodso in your view,we should keep up the Jewish sabbath ??
but scriptures are very clearly saying that there are no more Jews or Greeks(gentiles)but all are to become sons of God means obedient to God s will.now you talking about the sabbath and that we should observe it because it still is a ritual to be in power ??
but scriptures say that all the rituals were lost because the Jews hardly observe them in truth.
and so finally destroyed all temple and all that goes with it 70 AD.Jesus clearly shows that to worship, his followers would practice, is not on the out side practices but the ones who are coming from the hearth and in spirit,and so do not for that reason practice the sabbath; BUT LIVE IT;;;
now your views on the early fathers??who called them the early FATHERS? I would not call anyone my father but God,
the apostles were called the saints according to scriptures and that i do understand.
WE ALL WILL STAND THE TRIBUNAL OF CHRIST ALONE.
some of those Christians after John died,were fallowing the scriptures just as we do,and defend the truth by practicing it and make it known.NO CHANGE THERE.
the so called fathers joint the world of power and help to built the false churches,NOT TO DEFEND GODS LAWS AND CHRIST FALLOWERS ,BUT TO START TO GOVERN WITHOUT CHRIST,THATS CALLED THE APOSTASY.
Pierre
Greetings Pierre….There is the sabbath that was made for man….This is not a Jewish sabbath but a God ordained day of rest that was given to the children of Israel,of which the tribe of Judah( The Jews) was one of twelve….This is not a sabbath exclusively for the Jews….Read Lev:23….We are not to worship men period and you are correct there is only one Father…My reference to church fathers was defined by stating we know them as the apostles of Jesus..( the Christ)…There is much confusion when it comes Judeism,The Jews and the Law (aka Torah)…as well as apostolic christianity…Theod
Lev 23:3 “ ‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the LORD
this is the sabbath for men to the Lord God,
this Sabbath has been change and is now 24/7 this sabbath is practice everyday of our lives ,night and day;
the sabbath in Lev 23;was only one day consecrated to God work;Christian have this 24/7
this is why we do not stop for one day ,Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2010,01:28) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 07 2010,23:38) Pierre,
I do not know why you say such things. There were many writings from those who followed God and His Son. Some of them were put to death after they had written down many things that we can read today. Justin, the Martyr who gave the quote above this post was martyred for his faith in God and His Christ and the Spirit. We have many of his writings. He was martyred between 162 and 168 AD. He was not an apostate who sold his faith…he died for his faith.
Kathihe was not a early father, he was just a christian and took the scriptures as true.
those like him are in all ages even today,
his live is his before God,he did not bring anything more than the scriptures have given us.
so stick to the scriptures that s exactly what he did except for a few variation.
to me he is not a saint , because i do not know him,but the scriptures i do know.Pierre
Pierre,
I'm not exalting anyone particular. This topic is for all early Christians that expressed something about the weekly worship, whether Saturday or Sunday. I am interested in the history of how it went from Saturday to Sunday.I find early church history helpful to give perception. You don't have to agree with that, it is up to you but I would appreciate it if you would chill out. Maybe someone will find this topic interesting. You might even come across some helpful information that you can put here, i.e. an early Christian's view on the day of worship.
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 07 2010,07:59) Kathi, why do you put value how the fist Fathers worshiped? We have the Bible to show us who we should or should not worship……. I think that you put more value on those Fathers then the Bible, which is God's Word……Why? ??
Almighty God is above all, and it is Him we all should Worship.Psa 82:1 ¶ [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the God.
Psa 86:8 Among the gods [there is] none like unto thee, O LORD; neither [are there any works] like unto thy works.
Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.
Isa 42:8 I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Some translations say Jehovah God.
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.
Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
This is what Jesus said in
Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Because of these Scriptures I worship Almighty God and Father only……
Peace Irene
Irene,
Let me put your mind at ease, I do not put the early church father's above the Bible. I just enjoy learning early church history.Also, I know that you only worship the Father and not the Son…someday I believe you will though. Every knee will bow but that is not what this thread is about.
Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 07 2010,09:28) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2010,16:20) kathi witch one,we have similar believes today ,why is it you want to go were there is no Godly believes but believes of men??
all those so called fathers of the early church were apostates,they sold there faith for 30 coins.
many of the true Christians were put to dead for there believe in God and his son Christ ,so they are not the early fathers of the church.
all of the fathers of the early church that is after John the apostles and a few more,were apostates.
Pierre
Greetings Pierre…..We cannot overlook the fact that the early fathers of the church were Jews and they kept the sabbitical law which included Saturday worship as well as the appointed of the holy days as per Lev:23….These were the early followers of Jesus( The Christ)….They are known to us as the apostles of christ and they practised a form of christianity that included obedience to Torah or Law,which incudes alot of what we consider Jewery today….This was known as apostolic christianty….The sole purpose of the council that convened in Nicea was to remove any resemblence of Jewery from the newly formed universal church which established Easter,Christmas along with the deification of men as saints to be worshipped…Jesus said he did not come to change a dot or a title,but he came to fullfill the scripture and prophesy…..If you read Lev:23 you will see thet the Eternal was quite clear in his decree and that was “these statutes are to be kept from generation to generation even unto forever….so far I have not found any retractions from the almighty regarding these statutes…..In closing we should keep in mind the words Jesus spoke..” For they worship in vain,keeping traditions…the commandments of men”….
Hi Ted,
When you say 'apostolic Christianity' what years did that include. Do you not consider Justin, the Martyr a part of the apostolic Christianity? He was not a Jew but was considered an early church apologist and saint.Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2010,20:24) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2010,01:28) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 07 2010,23:38) Pierre,
I do not know why you say such things. There were many writings from those who followed God and His Son. Some of them were put to death after they had written down many things that we can read today. Justin, the Martyr who gave the quote above this post was martyred for his faith in God and His Christ and the Spirit. We have many of his writings. He was martyred between 162 and 168 AD. He was not an apostate who sold his faith…he died for his faith.
Kathihe was not a early father, he was just a christian and took the scriptures as true.
those like him are in all ages even today,
his live is his before God,he did not bring anything more than the scriptures have given us.
so stick to the scriptures that s exactly what he did except for a few variation.
to me he is not a saint , because i do not know him,but the scriptures i do know.Pierre
Pierre,
I'm not exalting anyone particular. This topic is for all early Christians that expressed something about the weekly worship, whether Saturday or Sunday. I am interested in the history of how it went from Saturday to Sunday.I find early church history helpful to give perception. You don't have to agree with that, it is up to you but I would appreciate it if you would chill out. Maybe someone will find this topic interesting. You might even come across some helpful information that you can put here, i.e. an early Christian's view on the day of worship.
KathiI am aware of what you looking for,the early fathers is a make up of the Catholic church, she stink in corruption and denial of Christ and God.
they have used up everything they can of good for there profit,and wealth.
but in heaven she as nothing stored.
so many what she calls early fathers are simply Christians who followed the scriptures and some later were so corrupt it is a shame.you will find more dirt than good
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2010,13:37) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 07 2010,09:28) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2010,16:20) kathi witch one,we have similar believes today ,why is it you want to go were there is no Godly believes but believes of men??
all those so called fathers of the early church were apostates,they sold there faith for 30 coins.
many of the true Christians were put to dead for there believe in God and his son Christ ,so they are not the early fathers of the church.
all of the fathers of the early church that is after John the apostles and a few more,were apostates.
Pierre
Greetings Pierre…..We cannot overlook the fact that the early fathers of the church were Jews and they kept the sabbitical law which included Saturday worship as well as the appointed of the holy days as per Lev:23….These were the early followers of Jesus( The Christ)….They are known to us as the apostles of christ and they practised a form of christianity that included obedience to Torah or Law,which incudes alot of what we consider Jewery today….This was known as apostolic christianty….The sole purpose of the council that convened in Nicea was to remove any resemblence of Jewery from the newly formed universal church which established Easter,Christmas along with the deification of men as saints to be worshipped…Jesus said he did not come to change a dot or a title,but he came to fullfill the scripture and prophesy…..If you read Lev:23 you will see thet the Eternal was quite clear in his decree and that was “these statutes are to be kept from generation to generation even unto forever….so far I have not found any retractions from the almighty regarding these statutes…..In closing we should keep in mind the words Jesus spoke..” For they worship in vain,keeping traditions…the commandments of men”….
Hi Ted,
When you say 'apostolic Christianity' what years did that include. Do you not consider Justin, the Martyr a part of the apostolic Christianity? He was not a Jew but was considered an early church apologist and saint.
Greetings Kathi…… Apostolic christianity started when the apostles first heard Jesus 'preach the gospel of the kingdom of God….This was a very diverse group consisting of followers from varios appointments in life….The one thing that is undeniable is the reference to the keeping of the Holydays with particular reference to the saturday sabbath,this was a clear indication that the followers of Jesus were in fact Jews first, although not orthodox as were the pharasee and scribes…When I speak of Jews I make no reference to their tribal birth rite ,I speak of their adherence to the Law/Torah of which Jesus also adhered to…My knowledge of Justin the Martyr is limited….the only thing I can say is there are no saints in heaven….those who died for christs sake are still dead and probably will make up the 144000 that will emerge from the tribulation,of which some from our church age will also survive and be spared death… When we speak of jews let us remember what Jesus said when he was asked who is a jew?….His answer was anyone who keeps the commandments is a jew….needless to say his reference was one of spirituality….IMOFor any and all born again spirit filled sons of God, lets hear what the spirit says of the Sabbath Day of the Lord.
At the last supper Jesus said…..that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses, in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me……Jesus!
Jesus was the fulfillment of the Sabbath day requirement of the law. Jesus is all and in all. Jesus is the sabbath rest of God. Jesus said….my father worketh until now….now, God is at rest and Jesus is at rest with God. Jesus said …my yoke is easy, my burden is light, enter into my rest and find peace for your souls….! Jesus broke the chains that bound us. Cut our fetters in twain. Released us from our mental prison.
Jesus is the new way to God. Jesus is the temple, the door, the light, the sacrifice, the Arc of the Covenant, Jesus enlightened mankind to the spirit of God, Jesus changed us in the twinkling of an eye, mortal took on immortality, Jesus cleansed us, ordained us, made us completely whole. There is one requirement, that we BELIEVE!!
We are now at rest with God. Our works are finished in Christ. No more works for salvation. No more works of the law. The law was unto Jesus. The old past away and behold all things are become new in Jesus. A new covenant with new promises. Executed by Jesus and sealed in his blood. Jesus did the works for our sinless perfection. He gave us the gift of the spirit. God bless all, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 09 2010,01:28) For any and all born again spirit filled sons of God, lets hear what the spirit says of the Sabbath Day of the Lord. At the last supper Jesus said…..that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses, in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me……Jesus!
Jesus was the fulfillment of the Sabbath day requirement of the law. Jesus is all and in all. Jesus is the sabbath rest of God. Jesus said….my father worketh until now….now, God is at rest and Jesus is at rest with God. Jesus said …my yoke is easy, my burden is light, enter into my rest and find peace for your souls….! Jesus broke the chains that bound us. Cut our fetters in twain. Released us from our mental prison.
Jesus is the new way to God. Jesus is the temple, the door, the light, the sacrifice, the Arc of the Covenant, Jesus enlightened mankind to the spirit of God, Jesus changed us in the twinkling of an eye, mortal took on immortality, Jesus cleansed us, ordained us, made us completely whole. There is one requirement, that we BELIEVE!!
We are now at rest with God. Our works are finished in Christ. No more works for salvation. No more works of the law. The law was unto Jesus. The old past away and behold all things are become new in Jesus. A new covenant with new promises. Executed by Jesus and sealed in his blood. Jesus did the works for our sinless perfection. He gave us the gift of the spirit. God bless all, TK
Greetings Tim…..There are many that hold your belief that Jesus put an end to the sabbath and all the law that encompasses it…..I fail to see how this emancipation from a command by the eternal to keep “HIS” day holy or to keep” HIS holydays from generation to generation even unto forever”…has been eliminated as a result of the sacrafice Jesus made….yet we can make holy a day chosen as a result of a decree on behalf of carnal men…who have alighned every holy day with that of pagantry…Sunday ( The sun God) Christs Mass(alighned with the winter soltice)Easter ( in keeping with adoration to Ishta )….IMOQuote (theodorej @ Dec. 09 2010,07:47) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2010,13:37) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 07 2010,09:28) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2010,16:20) kathi witch one,we have similar believes today ,why is it you want to go were there is no Godly believes but believes of men??
all those so called fathers of the early church were apostates,they sold there faith for 30 coins.
many of the true Christians were put to dead for there believe in God and his son Christ ,so they are not the early fathers of the church.
all of the fathers of the early church that is after John the apostles and a few more,were apostates.
Pierre
Greetings Pierre…..We cannot overlook the fact that the early fathers of the church were Jews and they kept the sabbitical law which included Saturday worship as well as the appointed of the holy days as per Lev:23….These were the early followers of Jesus( The Christ)….They are known to us as the apostles of christ and they practised a form of christianity that included obedience to Torah or Law,which incudes alot of what we consider Jewery today….This was known as apostolic christianty….The sole purpose of the council that convened in Nicea was to remove any resemblence of Jewery from the newly formed universal church which established Easter,Christmas along with the deification of men as saints to be worshipped…Jesus said he did not come to change a dot or a title,but he came to fullfill the scripture and prophesy…..If you read Lev:23 you will see thet the Eternal was quite clear in his decree and that was “these statutes are to be kept from generation to generation even unto forever….so far I have not found any retractions from the almighty regarding these statutes…..In closing we should keep in mind the words Jesus spoke..” For they worship in vain,keeping traditions…the commandments of men”….
Hi Ted,
When you say 'apostolic Christianity' what years did that include. Do you not consider Justin, the Martyr a part of the apostolic Christianity? He was not a Jew but was considered an early church apologist and saint.
Greetings Kathi…… Apostolic christianity started when the apostles first heard Jesus 'preach the gospel of the kingdom of God….This was a very diverse group consisting of followers from varios appointments in life….The one thing that is undeniable is the reference to the keeping of the Holydays with particular reference to the saturday sabbath,this was a clear indication that the followers of Jesus were in fact Jews first, although not orthodox as were the pharasee and scribes…When I speak of Jews I make no reference to their tribal birth rite ,I speak of their adherence to the Law/Torah of which Jesus also adhered to…My knowledge of Justin the Martyr is limited….the only thing I can say is there are no saints in heaven….those who died for christs sake are still dead and probably will make up the 144000 that will emerge from the tribulation,of which some from our church age will also survive and be spared death… When we speak of jews let us remember what Jesus said when he was asked who is a jew?….His answer was anyone who keeps the commandments is a jew….needless to say his reference was one of spirituality….IMO
theodMt 22:40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Eph 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)—
Eph 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
Eph 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
Eph 2:16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
Eph 2:17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Eph 2:19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household,
Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
Eph 2:21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.Paul here mention that the Jews and the gentiles are now one new man,
the sabbath is no longer required ,but like always groups leaning to Jewish practice will try to enslave people again,
and cut people off the freedom of Christ,
Pierre
Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 09 2010,04:03) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 09 2010,01:28) For any and all born again spirit filled sons of God, lets hear what the spirit says of the Sabbath Day of the Lord. At the last supper Jesus said…..that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses, in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me……Jesus!
Jesus was the fulfillment of the Sabbath day requirement of the law. Jesus is all and in all. Jesus is the sabbath rest of God. Jesus said….my father worketh until now….now, God is at rest and Jesus is at rest with God. Jesus said …my yoke is easy, my burden is light, enter into my rest and find peace for your souls….! Jesus broke the chains that bound us. Cut our fetters in twain. Released us from our mental prison.
Jesus is the new way to God. Jesus is the temple, the door, the light, the sacrifice, the Arc of the Covenant, Jesus enlightened mankind to the spirit of God, Jesus changed us in the twinkling of an eye, mortal took on immortality, Jesus cleansed us, ordained us, made us completely whole. There is one requirement, that we BELIEVE!!
We are now at rest with God. Our works are finished in Christ. No more works for salvation. No more works of the law. The law was unto Jesus. The old past away and behold all things are become new in Jesus. A new covenant with new promises. Executed by Jesus and sealed in his blood. Jesus did the works for our sinless perfection. He gave us the gift of the spirit. God bless all, TK
Greetings Tim…..There are many that hold your belief that Jesus put an end to the sabbath and all the law that encompasses it…..I fail to see how this emancipation from a command by the eternal to keep “HIS” day holy or to keep” HIS holydays from generation to generation even unto forever”…has been eliminated as a result of the sacrafice Jesus made….yet we can make holy a day chosen as a result of a decree on behalf of carnal men…who have alighned every holy day with that of pagantry…Sunday ( The sun God) Christs Mass(alighned with the winter soltice)Easter ( in keeping with adoration to Ishta )….IMO
Greetings Theodore: Bless you. Not to nitpick and repeat previous statements about the law being fulfilled in Jesus yet I also say Jesus fulfilled the law of the Sabbath Day too and its demands of NO PHYSICAL WORKS on that PHYSICAL day.Spiritually speaking Jesus fulfilled the physical day and transformed it into, the spiritual day of the lord. Jesus became sin for us to take away our sin. Jesus became the sabbath day and made it holy unto God. This is the day, as long as it is called “today”. It will always be today, so it is everyday.
Every day is the sabboth day in Jesus. The light/day has come with healing in its wings. Every day is the Holy day of the lord now. Why wait for six days. And remember on the Sabbath Day/every day man shall not WORK FOR SALVATION.
Works can never cleanse, forgive, make hole, heal, ordain or empower others et.al. The work in this day of the lord is to believe. Jesus paid it all, it is for whosoever will believe.
Trying to do works for salvation is total separation from the truth. Physical works for purity are trash. Spiritual works of Jesus totally saved us on every level, to the uttermost.
The total salvation that Jesus provided for us, when accepted by faith, creates the very love of God within the individual. From that agape love of God, born in all who believe, are the fruits of the spirit/God expressed.
We are grafted into the tree of life when we no longer believe we are in sin and face death. There is no death in pure life! IMO, TK
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 09 2010,05:46) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 09 2010,07:47) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2010,13:37) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 07 2010,09:28) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2010,16:20) kathi witch one,we have similar believes today ,why is it you want to go were there is no Godly believes but believes of men??
all those so called fathers of the early church were apostates,they sold there faith for 30 coins.
many of the true Christians were put to dead for there believe in God and his son Christ ,so they are not the early fathers of the church.
all of the fathers of the early church that is after John the apostles and a few more,were apostates.
Pierre
Greetings Pierre…..We cannot overlook the fact that the early fathers of the church were Jews and they kept the sabbitical law which included Saturday worship as well as the appointed of the holy days as per Lev:23….These were the early followers of Jesus( The Christ)….They are known to us as the apostles of christ and they practised a form of christianity that included obedience to Torah or Law,which incudes alot of what we consider Jewery today….This was known as apostolic christianty….The sole purpose of the council that convened in Nicea was to remove any resemblence of Jewery from the newly formed universal church which established Easter,Christmas along with the deification of men as saints to be worshipped…Jesus said he did not come to change a dot or a title,but he came to fullfill the scripture and prophesy…..If you read Lev:23 you will see thet the Eternal was quite clear in his decree and that was “these statutes are to be kept from generation to generation even unto forever….so far I have not found any retractions from the almighty regarding these statutes…..In closing we should keep in mind the words Jesus spoke..” For they worship in vain,keeping traditions…the commandments of men”….
Hi Ted,
When you say 'apostolic Christianity' what years did that include. Do you not consider Justin, the Martyr a part of the apostolic Christianity? He was not a Jew but was considered an early church apologist and saint.
Greetings Kathi…… Apostolic christianity started when the apostles first heard Jesus 'preach the gospel of the kingdom of God….This was a very diverse group consisting of followers from varios appointments in life….The one thing that is undeniable is the reference to the keeping of the Holydays with particular reference to the saturday sabbath,this was a clear indication that the followers of Jesus were in fact Jews first, although not orthodox as were the pharasee and scribes…When I speak of Jews I make no reference to their tribal birth rite ,I speak of their adherence to the Law/Torah of which Jesus also adhered to…My knowledge of Justin the Martyr is limited….the only thing I can say is there are no saints in heaven….those who died for christs sake are still dead and probably will make up the 144000 that will emerge from the tribulation,of which some from our church age will also survive and be spared death… When we speak of jews let us remember what Jesus said when he was asked who is a jew?….His answer was anyone who keeps the commandments is a jew….needless to say his reference was one of spirituality….IMO
theodMt 22:40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Eph 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)—
Eph 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
Eph 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
Eph 2:16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
Eph 2:17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Eph 2:19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household,
Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
Eph 2:21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.Paul here mention that the Jews and the gentiles are now one new man,
the sabbath is no longer required ,but like always groups leaning to Jewish practice will try to enslave people again,
and cut people off the freedom of Christ,
Pierre
Greetings Pierre….So the remaining 8 commandments will be considered of no use and any of the dictates of the Father are of no consequence….The term Gentile applies to those who are not decendence of the original 12 tribes….We must not forget that at the time of Pauls ministry 10 of the twelve tribes of Israel were and still are in exile,virtueally unidentified,although there are some indications they migrated to points in europe ( Saxons eg.Sons of Isaac )(Denmark eg Mark of Dan)….. I find the reference to “both” becoming “one” interesting,is it possible that the reference pertains to both the original covenent and the new covenant becoming one as a result of Jesus' ministry and ultimate sacrafice…If that is the case than just as Jesus said ” he did not come to change either a dot or a tietl of the law”…..What Jewish practices are you talking about …Sabbath keeping started on 7th day when the eternal rested from all he made and it was good and holy….There is nothing Jewish about that event…and the decree of of Lev:23 was issued before there was identifiable Jews other than the decendants of the tribe of Judah…Judism is nothing more than the adherence to the law of God….Not Moses or any other celebrated member of the tribe of Judah….The commandments, all ten were given by the eternal for ever to the children of Israel All twelve tribes not just the jews…
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