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Hi Nick:
Listen to David's appeal to God after he had sinned committing adultery with Bathsheba:
Quote Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2008,09:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,16:01) Hi 94,
If Adam received the Spirit of God and we all derive our life through him then we are all of the Spirit.
Not so ..we must be born again.
Hi Nick:Adam cannot give life to our soul. His seed is in his sperm, and this life is the life of the flesh.
Only God can give life to your soul, and he gave life to Adam, but through sin, Adam died. God had said to him, that if he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, “in the day that he ate of it, he would surely die”. Well he did eat, and he soul died in the day that he ate because he lost his fellowship with God. He continued to live in the flesh until his body detiorated and went back to the dust. But in this state of living. He was not in communion with God. And the same with us, if we have not been born again, we are physically alive but we are dead to God in our sins. We have no personal relationship with Him. And so, the Apostle Peter states:
Quote 1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. The gospel is to be preached to every creature. We were all in sin and dead to God at one time.
H3117
יום
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): –age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full,life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.Adam did not “die” spiritually – he was never created a “spiritual being” Adam was created a physical man.
In the “day” he died was associated with his physical life and experiencing good and evil (the “tree” he ate from) – in his physical experiencing of good and evil he died in that day/age
Read 1 Corinthians 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Adam was sown flesh and through Christ will be raised a spiritual being – he had to die first – the wages of sin is death – to die he had to sin – sin is transgression of the law. Gods law.
Hi mk,
He submitted and gave allegience to the serpent, the god of this world.
Satan appealed to his wife's intellectual vanity and his insecurity that made him follow her lead.He died that day[within 1000 years]
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 26 2008,09:19) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2008,09:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,16:01) Hi 94,
If Adam received the Spirit of God and we all derive our life through him then we are all of the Spirit.
Not so ..we must be born again.
Hi Nick:Adam cannot give life to our soul. His seed is in his sperm, and this life is the life of the flesh.
Only God can give life to your soul, and he gave life to Adam, but through sin, Adam died. God had said to him, that if he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, “in the day that he ate of it, he would surely die”. Well he did eat, and he soul died in the day that he ate because he lost his fellowship with God. He continued to live in the flesh until his body detiorated and went back to the dust. But in this state of living. He was not in communion with God. And the same with us, if we have not been born again, we are physically alive but we are dead to God in our sins. We have no personal relationship with Him. And so, the Apostle Peter states:
Quote 1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. The gospel is to be preached to every creature. We were all in sin and dead to God at one time.
H3117
יום
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): –age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full,life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.Adam did not “die” spiritually – he was never created a “spiritual being” Adam was created a physical man.
In the “day” he died was associated with his physical life and experiencing good and evil (the “tree” he ate from) – in his physical experiencing of good and evil he died in that day/age
Read 1 Corinthians 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Adam was sown flesh and through Christ will be raised a spiritual being – he had to die first – the wages of sin is death – to die he had to sin – sin is transgression of the law. Gods law.
Hi MK:I cannot give you my understanding of this any clearer that I have stated in the post to which you have responded.
And so, I will just have to leave it at that.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,09:35) Hi 94,
Can your understanding not change?
Hi Nick:Yes, if what you give me is the Word of God, but I do not agree with what MK is saying.
I apologise if this sounds blunt but from what I can see what I and Nick are saying is scriptural – we are first natural then through Christ spiritual – there is no spiritual first, then natural, then back to spiritual.
It seems you are trying to teach us something that we believe is false and not scriptural as we see it – if you base other parts of your teachings etc on this they will be tainted with falsehood as well – if the foundation of your understanding is false then what gets built on it is liable to be tainted as well.
All of scripture should fit together not bits cut out and pasted together, along with traditional church learning and other parts of scripture ignored. This applies to all of us.
Quote Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; We, before were born again, are described above as “being dead in our sins and the uncircumscision of our flesh”. We were alive physically, but we did not have a personal realtionship with God. We are said to dead. It is same with Adam after his sin. He continued to live physically, but his soul was dead to God because of sin. He lost his personal relationship with God.
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 26 2008,09:47) I apologise if this sounds blunt but from what I can see what I and Nick are saying is scriptural – we are first natural then through Christ spiritual – there is no spiritual first, then natural, then back to spiritual. It seems you are trying to teach us something that we believe is false and not scriptural as we see it – if you base other parts of your teachings etc on this they will be tainted with falsehood as well – if the foundation of your understanding is false then what gets built on it is liable to be tainted as well.
All of scripture should fit together not bits cut out and pasted together, along with traditional church learning and other parts of scripture ignored. This applies to all of us.
Hi MK:Yes, but we, none of humanity after Adam, did not have a personal relationship with God before we were born again. Adam, however, did. He became a living soul, and had a personal relationship with God, and he could have eaten from every tree in the garden of Eden including from the tree of life and lived forever.
He lost that personal realtionship with God, and was cast out of the presence of God into this world because of sin.
Yes,
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
God Bless
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 26 2008,09:47) I apologise if this sounds blunt but from what I can see what I and Nick are saying is scriptural – we are first natural then through Christ spiritual – there is no spiritual first, then natural, then back to spiritual. It seems you are trying to teach us something that we believe is false and not scriptural as we see it – if you base other parts of your teachings etc on this they will be tainted with falsehood as well – if the foundation of your understanding is false then what gets built on it is liable to be tainted as well.
All of scripture should fit together not bits cut out and pasted together, along with traditional church learning and other parts of scripture ignored. This applies to all of us.
Hi MK:If you believe that what I am teaching you is false, then don't accept what I am saying is the truth, and I also will not accept what you are saying as truth unless I am convinced that it is the truth.
What I have given you is my understanding of the scriptures, I did not say that I was right, but of course, if I am teaching something it is because I believe that it is the truth.
I have already told you that I am not speaking about the last Adam which you say is the spiritual man. It is through the last Adam that our souls become alive to God. Before this we were in darkness. Adam before the fall was not in darkness. He was in communion with God.
I am speaking about spiritual separation from God because of sin. Sin is a spiritual matter.
Quote Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,09:06) Hi 94,
Indeed David feared losing the Spirit more than anything else.
It did not happen.
It did not happen, because David repented of his sins.Hi MK:
You say:
Quote Read 1 Corinthians 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: Adam was sown flesh and through Christ will be raised a spiritual being – he had to die first – the wages of sin is death – to die he had to sin – sin is transgression of the law. Gods law.
The scripture to which you refer is speaking of dying unto sin not dying in sin, and then being raised a spirtual being in Christ. It also speaking of a natural body and a spiritual body. The spiritual body is the body that those who are in Christ will receive at the coming of the Lord for the church.
Quote Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2008,11:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,09:06) Hi 94,
Indeed David feared losing the Spirit more than anything else.
It did not happen.
It did not happen, because David repented of his sins.
Hi 94,
So you extrapolate that God would have done so?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,12:29) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2008,11:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,09:06) Hi 94,
Indeed David feared losing the Spirit more than anything else.
It did not happen.
It did not happen, because David repented of his sins.
Hi 94,
So you extrapolate that God would have done so?
Hi Nick:Why would David beg him not to take away the Holy Spirit from him if this was not a possibility? Yes, of course, I believe that God would have taken the Holy Spirit from him if he had not repented.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,13:08) Hi 94,
Do we work from inference?
Hi Nick:What can you infer from the following scriptures? Do these have the Holy Spirit or another spirit?
Quote 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Hi 94,
The Spirit of God abides to raise men who are joined with Christ.
1cor3
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,14:00) Hi 94,
The Spirit of God abides to raise men who are joined with Christ.
1cor3
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Yes, I agree with this, but suppose a man who has received the Holy Ghost falls away and begins practicing sin wilfully. Does he have the Holy Ghost dwelling within or does he have another spirit?Quote Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned. Quote Hbr 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
Hbr 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Hbr 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned.Quote Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.Hi 94,
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,So this speaks of Knowledge only and not useful action.
Such a man has not been led by the Spirit as the Spirit does not lead to sin.
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.We must wilfully allow the Spirit to lead us before the Spirit will abide in us.
5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
8This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
9A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
10I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
11And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
12I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Mere tasting is not allowing God to abide in our temple.
Heb6
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Men assume far too much on the patience of God.
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