Satan

[Not3in1]

God used Judas to accomplish his will – do you think he will forever punish Judas?

OR did Satan use Judas to accomplish his will?

God also hardened Pharroah (sp) to accomplish his will. OR did Satan do that?

Hmmm there seems to be some question as to who causes men to do evil or speak out against God? God or Satan?

[Is 1:18]

In the end Judas made his own decisions, YHWH did not influence them.

[NickHassan]

Hi mandy,
All natural men are driven by the god of this world to oppose our God.
They are capable of resisting but without grace the easy road is chosen.
Eph2
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 30 2008,18:58)

In the end Judas made his own decisions, YHWH did not influence them.

I don't think so. It was prophesied that Judas (or one like him) would betray the Christ and do what he did.

God's purposes are always carried out. Someone had to do the dirty business. My question is – who put that desire in this persons heart? Was it God or Satan?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2008,19:02)

Hi mandy, All natural men are driven by the god of this world to oppose our God. They are capable of resisting but without grace the easy road is chosen. Eph2 1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But what of those who had to fulfill prophesy? I don't suppose they had choice really, huh?

[NickHassan]

Hi Mandy,
It is interesting that Judas does not appear with the big baddies at the end of Revelation.
Jesus did pray that they would be forgiven.
Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 30 2008,19:04)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 30 2008,18:58) In the end Judas made his own decisions, YHWH did not influence them. I don't think so.  It was prophesied that Judas (or one like him) would betray the Christ and do what he did. God's purposes are always carried out.  Someone had to do the dirty business.  My question is – who put that desire in this persons heart?  Was it God or Satan?

While it was prophesied that Judas would betray that does not mean the YHWH prompted Judas to act the way he did. YHWH, the creator of time, is outside of time and knows the beginning from the end. Judas made his own decisions.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 30 2008,19:10)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 30 2008,19:04) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 30 2008,18:58) In the end Judas made his own decisions, YHWH did not influence them. I don't think so.  It was prophesied that Judas (or one like him) would betray the Christ and do what he did. God's purposes are always carried out.  Someone had to do the dirty business.  My question is – who put that desire in this persons heart?  Was it God or Satan? While it was prophesied that Judas would betray that does not mean the YHWH prompted Judas to act the way he did. YHWH, the creator of time, is outside of time and knows the beginning from the end. Judas made his own decisions.

Ah…very curious ideas you have Isaiah.

I wonder if I am just wasting my time worshiping God (after all he already knows that in the end I will deny him). If this is the case, will he even listen to my worship at all?

I don't believe scripture teaches that God knows what will happen in the end. I think he is waiting to see what we will decide. After all, if he knew what would happen then he wouldn't have “grieved” when he had to inforce the flood in the days of Noah.

[Not3in1]

Whew, I'm getting too tired to post anymore.  I just read my previous post and it barely make sense.  Hopefully you understood my point?  I better head to bed.

Goodnight brother's,
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi mandy,
His ideas are curious?
Do you not have access to grace to endure?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2008,19:33)

Hi mandy, His ideas are curious? Do you not have access to grace to endure?

Just heading to bed….

Not sure what you mean here, Nick?

[NickHassan]

Hi Mandy,
If you are established in Christ then you need to visit the supply department.[2Peter1]
God knows we are helpless to do anything in our strength and should not bother trying.
Zech4
6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

7Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

Do not try to prove yourself but acknowledge to God your total ignorance and helplessness and ask for grace. So far no shortage has been found.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 30 2008,19:31)

Ah…very curious ideas you have Isaiah.

You reckon? I thought this was pretty orthodox thinking.

Quote

I wonder if I am just wasting my time worshiping God (after all he already knows that in the end I will deny him). If this is the case, will he even listen to my worship at all?

“If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself” (2 Tim 2:13)

Quote

I don't believe scripture teaches that God knows what will happen in the end.

YHWH declares it.

“Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other, I am God, and there is no one like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure'” (Is 46:9-10)

Quote

I think he is waiting to see what we will decide.  After all, if he knew what would happen then he wouldn't have “grieved” when he had to inforce the flood in the days of Noah.

Why not?

Have a good sleep.

Blessings
Paul

[Samuel]

I think hes the Father of Rebellion, and lies, and hate, and well just about every bad thing you can think of.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Some of the lies he promotes are those of of hopelessness, bitterness and despair.
Sin is addictive and compelling and entrapping such that men believe they may as well give up fighting.
It is a shortcut to the thought that since there is no hope then influencing others to do the same may be satisfying.
Hope is eternal as God wants all men to be saved and He is able to help all who call on Him.

[Cato]

Quote (Samuel @ Mar. 30 2008,20:35)

I think hes the Father of Rebellion, and lies, and hate, and well just about every bad thing you can think of.

I think many give too much credit to Satan.  I believe evil comes from within, it is in essence, a desire for separation from God and his will.  It comes from souls trying, like foolish adolescents, to prove their independence and irresponsively use their free will.  Outside forces then try and take these urges and convince us that it is alright.  I don't agree Satan or any of the fallen are responsible for the spark of evil, what they do is take the spark and try to fan it into a flame.  God allows it for to do otherwise would take away that very will he gifted us with.

[NickHassan]

Hi cato,
Jas1
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

[Cato]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 30 2008,19:04)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 30 2008,18:58) In the end Judas made his own decisions, YHWH did not influence them. I don't think so.  It was prophesied that Judas (or one like him) would betray the Christ and do what he did. God's purposes are always carried out.  Someone had to do the dirty business.  My question is – who put that desire in this persons heart?  Was it God or Satan?

Two points,

One: to predict that something will happen is not the same as making it happen; A weatherman may very accurately project the weather in a week,  but does nothing to influence or cause it.

Two: Satan or God (though I sincerely doubt God would) may have made the suggestion to Judas for whatever reason, but the decision was his in the end.  If Judas did not make the decision himself he would bare no responsibility and it would not have been a betrayal.

Personally I feel Jesus forgave him and so would God, what must have been the real Hell for Judas would be whether he could have ever forgiven himself, his suicide is indicative of his guilt and sorrow.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2008,06:46)

Hi cato, Jas1 13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Hi cato,
So natural men appear to be born indwelled with lusts.
Submission to them leads inevitably to sin.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
All must repent.

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Cato @ Mar. 31 2008,06:58)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 30 2008,19:04) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 30 2008,18:58) In the end Judas made his own decisions, YHWH did not influence them. I don't think so.  It was prophesied that Judas (or one like him) would betray the Christ and do what he did. God's purposes are always carried out.  Someone had to do the dirty business.  My question is – who put that desire in this persons heart?  Was it God or Satan? Two points, One: to predict that something will happen is not the same as making it happen; A weatherman may very accurately project the weather in a week,  but does nothing to influence or cause it. Two: Satan or God (though I sincerely doubt God would) may have made the suggestion to Judas for whatever reason, but the decision was his in the end.  If Judas did not make the decision himself he would bare no responsibility and it would not have been a betrayal. Personally I feel Jesus forgave him and so would God, what must have been the real Hell for Judas would be whether he could have ever forgiven himself, his suicide is indicative of his guilt and sorrow.

Hi Cato,
are you saying that it was not god's plan that Jesus die just the way that He did?
Did not Jesus know exactly why He hand picked Judas to be with Him.

When Jesus said “woe to the one that betrays me”
I don't think that He was condeming that person, but rather He was feeling sorrow for what that person must indure for doing what he had to do.

Tim

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