- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2012,19:35) Gene doesn't believe there is such a thing as “free will”.
Mikeyou did not say it strong enough;
Gene does absolutly and deffinetly not accept or recognize that their was ever as been a free will for man,
this is closer what you think Mike ?
T8………..Please show us where Satan LIED, He told Adam and Eve there eyes would be opened and they would be (AS) GOD, Knowing Good and evil, and GOD said “Look Man has become as we are knowing Good and Evil” So who lied there. The first lier and Murderer was CAIN, He was the one who was the first (Ha-Satan) Man. The Spirit (intellect) of an adversary (ha-Satan) is not necessarily evil itself just depends on the circumstances involved rather it is being used for good or evil . Cain used it for evil He was the first lier and Murder the first sinner from mankind . Jesus told the Pharasiees they did the deed of their Father the Devil becasue they were acting as and adversary to the Truth of GOD. The only evil (ha-Satan) are Men Who through Lust and Pride used this Spirit (intellect) of and adversary OR APPOSING Minds to justify their evil deeds and ungodly lusts and Pride. There is no Satan “BEING” going around jumping in and out of people,Taking them over, no more then there is the Spirit of wisdom Jumping in and out of People taking them over either. Men By their own lusts and Pride are driven to (WILL)from themselves to do Evil in the sight of God from their owns selves. We must all put our own evil lives to death Just as Jesus did His life by the Spirit of the LIVING God . Blaming a Spurious Being as the cause for our own evil doings is nothing but a “Cop-out”, It is Our own ways that must be overcome and repented of. Not some elusive (ha-satan) It man who rules the world and does the evil in it and him alone.
T8 there is only ONE TRUE GOD and That GOD said there were (NO) other GODS beside ME > You either believe Him or not, No need to build all kinds of theologies to Justify a wrong Position Brother.
peace and love to you and yours T8……………………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2012,12:35) Gene doesn't believe there is such a thing as “free will”.
T8…….That is absolute Right that is exactly what i believe. There exists no such thing as a Will the is FREE. The word FREE WILL is an OXYMORON. A will would not be a “WILL” if (IT) were “FREE” of INFLUENCE> and if it is not FREE of Influence then IT CAN NOT BE truly “FREE”. These people are mixing up the Word “LIBERTY” that we have to express our influenced Will's as Meaning we have a “FREE WILL” in Us . But where is there ONE Scripture that says MAN has a Will, that is “FREE” (IN) HIM.Our will are a Driven Will by what influences us the most. The very word WILL means it is NOT FREE ITSELF> Or it simply would not be a WILL at all. Again “LIBERTY” given us by GOD to exercise our “CAPTIVATED WILL'S” is the Correct way of expressing our WILL'S. WE are Held captives by pour WILLS. They can not produce one scripture that say a man has a will that is FREE (IN) HIM, no not even one, and yet maintain it is scriptural, so lets see the Scripture if it is scriptural.
What did Paul say I find(NO GOOD) in my flesh “WHY” because to “WILL” is Present with ME. But some think by there own so-called Free WILL they can perform righteousness and goodness from themselves, But when Jesus was accused of being “GOOD” what was his answer > “why call me good?, there is ONLY ONE That is GOOD and that is GOD”. BUT these so-called “FREE WILLER'S think they by their Will can Chose what is GOOD from their selves and some how qualify for salvation.
Even Jesus know it was not HIS WILL that would save him it was GOD'S WILL not HIS.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 11 2012,20:46) T8………..Please show us where Satan LIED, He told Adam and Eve there eyes would be opened and they would be (AS) GOD, Knowing Good and evil, and GOD said “Look Man has become as we are knowing Good and Evil” So who lied there. The first lier and Murderer was CAIN, He was the one who was the first (Ha-Satan) Man. The Spirit (intellect) of an adversary (ha-Satan) is not necessarily evil itself just depends on the circumstances involved rather it is being used for good or evil . Cain used it for evil He was the first lier and Murder the first sinner from mankind . Jesus told the Pharasiees they did the deed of their Father the Devil becasue they were acting as and adversary to the Truth of GOD. The only evil (ha-Satan) are Men Who through Lust and Pride used this Spirit (intellect) of and adversary OR APPOSING Minds to justify their evil deeds and ungodly lusts and Pride. There is no Satan “BEING” going around jumping in and out of people,Taking them over, no more then there is the Spirit of wisdom Jumping in and out of People taking them over either. Men By their own lusts and Pride are driven to (WILL)from themselves to do Evil in the sight of God from their owns selves. We must all put our own evil lives to death Just as Jesus did His life by the Spirit of the LIVING God . Blaming a Spurious Being as the cause for our own evil doings is nothing but a “Cop-out”, It is Our own ways that must be overcome and repented of. Not some elusive (ha-satan) It man who rules the world and does the evil in it and him alone. T8 there is only ONE TRUE GOD and That GOD said there were (NO) other GODS beside ME > You either believe Him or not, No need to build all kinds of theologies to Justify a wrong Position Brother.
peace and love to you and yours T8……………………………………………….gene
GeneGe 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
Ge 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”He(serpent) said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?
Ge 3:4 “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman.
it seems you haven changed yet
Pierre ……..So “WHEN” they ate of it did they die? I thought they lived for 900 years or so before they died, so they did not die “the DAY” “WHEN the ATE of IT now did they? that is in a 24 hour day, however they did die within GOD time or a Day which is 1000 years. No where in scripture does it say Adam or EVE Sinned , Post it if it is there. scripture simply say Sin “entered” “through” Adam and it did (IN) CAIN. in fact that is the first place the word “Sin” is mentioned in scriptures it was when GOD was talking to CAIN , never did he say Adam or Eve sinned. That is yours and others assumptions. In fact the first “Born” Man of the human race was not Adam or Even it was CAIN. Adam and Eve were created Beings but Cain was the “FIRST” BORN Human Being.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 11 2012,14:45) Pierre ……..So “WHEN” they ate of it did they die? I thought they lived for 900 years or so before they died, so they did not die “the DAY” “WHEN the ATE of IT now did they? that is in a 24 hour day, however they did die within GOD time or a Day which is 1000 years. No where in scripture does it say Adam or EVE Sinned , Post it if it is there. scripture simply say Sin “entered” “through” Adam and it did (IN) CAIN. in fact that is the first place the word “Sin” is mentioned in scriptures it was when GOD was talking to CAIN , never did he say Adam or Eve sinned. That is yours and others assumptions. In fact the first “Born” Man of the human race was not Adam or Even it was CAIN. Adam and Eve were created Beings but Cain was the “FIRST” BORN Human Being.
Hi Gene,Not so fast Gene, is not disobedience …'SIN'? …consider this:
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made
sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Look carefully at how 1 John 2:16 compares directly to Genesis 3:6…1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and
the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.1. the lust of the flesh
2. the lust of the eyes
3. and the pride of life“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that
it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise” (Gen 3:6)
1. the lust of the flesh ……….. the tree was good for food
2. the lust of the eyes ……….. it was pleasant to the eyes
3. and the pride of life ……….. desired to make one wiseGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgED J…………Yes i do understand that, But it was what was INFLUENCING Them that was the source of the real disobedience right?That is what caused them to break “FREE” from the “WILL” of GOD and exercise their own “WILL'S” of becoming independent to GOD'S “WILL” and forming their own Wills or a (I) GOD existence.
Jesus said “SATAN” was a Lier and thief and a Murderer in the “beginning “, and that was Not Adam becasue Adam or Eve Did not deceive or murder anyone that Was Cain who did that and the MARK of (ha-Satan) was placed on Him. IMO, no mention of any sin until Cain shows up and GOD said to him Sin lies at you door and you must master it. WE also master it by the Holy Spirit of GOD Just as Jesus did in the wilderness after he recieved (IT) at the JORDAN River.
I do agree that Sin “ENTERED” into the WORLD “THROUGH” Adam by his son CAIN The first born Carnal HUMAN who hated his brother and lied to God and Murdered his brother Abel. This is the one who was a lier and a thief in the beginning. Not ADAM or EVE. Ed J…..Lust is not just a desire for something it is an (INORDINATE DESIRE) The fruit of the tree did make them wiser and made them thin k like GOD does and God said it did,'Look the man has become as we are” to know (experience) good and evil. These good and evil experiences we all go through teach us a valuable lesson abut life it self, and is need full or God would have never permitted it in the First place. It is all a tool in the hand of God, teaching us to LOVE the GOOD and HATE the EVIL> were all learning ED J. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………..gene
peace and love……………………………………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 11 2012,21:45) Pierre ……..So “WHEN” they ate of it did they die? I thought they lived for 900 years or so before they died, so they did not die “the DAY” “WHEN the ATE of IT now did they? that is in a 24 hour day, however they did die within GOD time or a Day which is 1000 years. No where in scripture does it say Adam or EVE Sinned , Post it if it is there. scripture simply say Sin “entered” “through” Adam and it did (IN) CAIN. in fact that is the first place the word “Sin” is mentioned in scriptures it was when GOD was talking to CAIN , never did he say Adam or Eve sinned. That is yours and others assumptions. In fact the first “Born” Man of the human race was not Adam or Even it was CAIN. Adam and Eve were created Beings but Cain was the “FIRST” BORN Human Being.
Geneyou do not see the snare do you
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,01:25) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 11 2012,14:45) Pierre ……..So “WHEN” they ate of it did they die? I thought they lived for 900 years or so before they died, so they did not die “the DAY” “WHEN the ATE of IT now did they? that is in a 24 hour day, however they did die within GOD time or a Day which is 1000 years. No where in scripture does it say Adam or EVE Sinned , Post it if it is there. scripture simply say Sin “entered” “through” Adam and it did (IN) CAIN. in fact that is the first place the word “Sin” is mentioned in scriptures it was when GOD was talking to CAIN , never did he say Adam or Eve sinned. That is yours and others assumptions. In fact the first “Born” Man of the human race was not Adam or Even it was CAIN. Adam and Eve were created Beings but Cain was the “FIRST” BORN Human Being.
Hi Gene,Not so fast Gene, is not disobedience …'SIN'? …consider this:
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made
sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Look carefully at how 1 John 2:16 compares directly to Genesis 3:6…1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and
the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.1. the lust of the flesh
2. the lust of the eyes
3. and the pride of life“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that
it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise” (Gen 3:6)
1. the lust of the flesh ……….. the tree was good for food
2. the lust of the eyes ……….. it was pleasant to the eyes
3. and the pride of life ……….. desired to make one wiseGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote 1. the lust of the flesh
2. the lust of the eyes
3. and the pride of lifeEdj,
Good post!!
Did it occurred to you that Eve made use of the five senses???
She HEARD and listened to the serpent.
She SAW,and in the same time she SMELLED the occassion to be wise.
She TOUCHED the fruit.
and She TASTED the fruit.
peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 11 2012,14:45) Pierre ……..So “WHEN” they ate of it did they die? I thought they lived for 900 years or so before they died, so they did not die “the DAY” “WHEN the ATE of IT now did they? that is in a 24 hour day, however they did die within GOD time or a Day which is 1000 years. No where in scripture does it say Adam or EVE Sinned , Post it if it is there. scripture simply say Sin “entered” “through” Adam and it did (IN) CAIN. in fact that is the first place the word “Sin” is mentioned in scriptures it was when GOD was talking to CAIN , never did he say Adam or Eve sinned. That is yours and others assumptions. In fact the first “Born” Man of the human race was not Adam or Even it was CAIN. Adam and Eve were created Beings but Cain was the “FIRST” BORN Human Being.
Hi Gene,Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Adam broke God's commandment. He missed to the mark, therefore he sinned.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2012,12:35) Gene doesn't believe there is such a thing as “free will”.
He chooses to not believe that there is free will.
And other choose to believe that there is free will.So we have a free will that allows us to believe that free will exists.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 11 2012,13:46) T8………..Please show us where Satan LIED
John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.Wow Gene,
It's like every time you say, “There is no scripture that says that!”, someone pops out the scripture that DOES say it.
I hope you're learning. I am.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 11 2012,13:46) T8………..Please show us where Satan LIED, He told Adam and Eve there eyes would be opened and they would be (AS) GOD, Knowing Good and evil, and GOD said “Look Man has become as we are knowing Good and Evil” So who lied there. The first lier and Murderer was CAIN, He was the one who was the first (Ha-Satan) Man. The Spirit (intellect) of an adversary (ha-Satan) is not necessarily evil itself just depends on the circumstances involved rather it is being used for good or evil . Cain used it for evil He was the first lier and Murder the first sinner from mankind . Jesus told the Pharasiees they did the deed of their Father the Devil becasue they were acting as and adversary to the Truth of GOD. The only evil (ha-Satan) are Men Who through Lust and Pride used this Spirit (intellect) of and adversary OR APPOSING Minds to justify their evil deeds and ungodly lusts and Pride. There is no Satan “BEING” going around jumping in and out of people,Taking them over, no more then there is the Spirit of wisdom Jumping in and out of People taking them over either. Men By their own lusts and Pride are driven to (WILL)from themselves to do Evil in the sight of God from their owns selves. We must all put our own evil lives to death Just as Jesus did His life by the Spirit of the LIVING God . Blaming a Spurious Being as the cause for our own evil doings is nothing but a “Cop-out”, It is Our own ways that must be overcome and repented of. Not some elusive (ha-satan) It man who rules the world and does the evil in it and him alone. T8 there is only ONE TRUE GOD and That GOD said there were (NO) other GODS beside ME > You either believe Him or not, No need to build all kinds of theologies to Justify a wrong Position Brother.
peace and love to you and yours T8……………………………………………….gene
Quote Please show us where Satan LIED, He told Adam and Eve there eyes would be opened and they would be (AS) GOD, Knowing Good and evil, Romans 5:12 Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. 13 For until the law sin was in the world; but sin was not imputed, when the law was not. 14 But death reigned from Adam unto Moses, even over them also who have not sinned after the similitude of the transgression of Adam, who is a figure of him who was to come.
Gene,
As you can see, the transgression is of Adam.
Satan Lied because Adam and Eve and all their generations could never become like God knowing good and evil,since they lose their free will, and become subjects to him.
Satan himself would manipulate them in order to become blind and never distinguish good from evil
Mark 4:12That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Who today is capable to distinguish good from evil,when evil became good,and the only good we are capable of doing is evil.
The fact that there are loads of arguments on heaven net is a proof that Satan lied!!
peace and love in Jesus
Charles
To All………….I had another reason for saying Adam and Eve did not sin that i was basing what i said on, and it is this . If you told a Innocent child who does not “know” Good from Evil, Something to do an he did it does that make him a sinner becasue he did what was wrong. Now who would you say it sinned, was it the Child or the one who told him to do it or both. Adam and Eve did not (KNOW) what was GOOD or EVIL until their eyes were opened, Scripture says, and the became aware of there nakedness. And they realized they were naked also. Was all that Wrong on their part apparently not becasue GOD made them Cloths to cover themselves with. While yes they obversely MISSED the Mark of GOD”S commanded Words, and sin has been said to Miss the Mark that is true. Another thing why did not GOD say they sinned then? Like he told Cain that sin lied at his door (of his heart) and he needed to master it.
Remember also the word (KNOW) in genesis means more then to just have a Knowledge about something, it means to have a (intimate relationship with something) Like for instance where it say Adam (KNOW) Eve and she brought forth a Child. That was not just a casual acquaintance with Eve it was a intimate relationship with her, and so it is with GOOD and EVIL , God was telling Adam and EVE Not to engage by “EATING” or taken to themselves to produce from themselves (as a TREE) the fruit of Good and Evil. That was to prevent them from having an (INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP) with Good and evil.
Scripture say Eve was decieved , but it also says Adam was Not decieved, so in that sense i it does appear Adam did Sin. But if he was not decieved like Eve then why was “BOTH” their eyes OPENED to KNOW GOOD and EVIL after they eat or (took it to themselves).
I also believe Cain was the one Marked out by GOD as a SINNER He was the FIRST “BORN” HUMAN Being. Adam did not lie to GOD Nor Did EVE , So how can we attribute that Mark on them? when They did not lie nor did they Murder. That is why i have a problem with saying Adam was a murder and an lier as Jesus said the Father of the Pharisees was. While Adam did Transgress God's command so we can say he sinned, becasue it say transgression of the Law is sin, and the Law is the command by word of GOD.
I have to admit i was in error on this even if Adam and Eves eyes were not opened. It does appear by scriptures you quoted they did sin.
peace and love to you all……………………………………………….gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
