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Quote (942767 @ Oct. 30 2009,14:15) Of course the fire is not still burning, the scripture says “they suffered the vengeance of eternal fire”. That is past tense they already suffered this. My point with this post is to show that they won't be resurrected to incur further judgment.
946727……..You said Sodom and Gomorrah won't be resurected , but Jesus said they will and be shown more mercy the the Pharisees of his day would. You may have forgotten where Jesus said that, but he did and it is in scriptureMatt:10:15……… Jesus said….>It will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of Judgment then For the scribes and Pharisees.
If they are not going to be resurected then how could this be.
peace and love……………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 30 2009,16:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 30 2009,00:53) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 29 2009,14:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 29 2009,13:48) Hi 94,
So all men will not be raised to face judgement?
Heb 9.27 disagrees
Hi Nick:Adam and Eve died in the day that they ate of the knowledge of good and evil in disobedience to God's commandments, this was a spiritual death, and judgement followed. All of those after him partook of the same judgement. Those in the days of Noah were judged by the flood. Pharaoh was judged by God as the waters covered over him and his army as they pursued the children of Israel into the Red Sea. Those in the land of Canaan were judged by God through the nation of Israel as they dispelled them from the land. The nation of Israel who were under the law were judged by the law. Those who were striving to obey the commandments of God under the OT are a part of the body of Christ and are not guilty.
In the NT, the gospel is preached to all of those who are dead, that is spiritually dead, and judgment will follow. Those who come to God through the Lord Jesus, will be judged not guilty, and those who die spiritually separated from God will be judged according to the works that they have done in the body.
And so, it is appointed unto man once to die (spiritually), and after this the judgment.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Adam and Eve did not die the day they ate the fruit, they didn't die spiritually or physically. Adam repented5) Then adam received from his Lord Words. And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #37)
DB……Wrong…..Adam and eve did die in the day they ate (took) to themselves the forbidden fruit.. Remember a thousand years is as a day and a day is as a thousand years with GOD. No one ever lived over a thousand years, so all died in the day they ate in Gods timing. IMOgene
Nice try, but the fact is God had outlined what a day was and it was evening and morning. God didn't tell them “you will die in what is a day to me” He told them they would die in the same day they ate thereof it was what would be a day to them otherwise it would not have much meaning.You would rather not believe that God forgave them but God had done this since or have you not read the Book Of Jonah when God said outright he was going to destroy and instead repented of what he was going to do :
Jonah 3
3So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.4And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
The fact is God forgives but most refuse to believe this most basic fact.
Bodhitharta said:
Quote Nice try, but the fact is God had outlined what a day was and it was evening and morning. God didn't tell them “you will die in what is a day to me” He told them they would die in the same day they ate thereof it was what would be a day to them otherwise it would not have much meaning. bd,
Bingo dude!
Hebrews says that Christ would come in a “little while and will not delay” (Hebrews 10:37). It does not mean a “little while” to God but a “little while” to us. thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 29 2009,23:51) Bodhitharta said: Quote Nice try, but the fact is God had outlined what a day was and it was evening and morning. God didn't tell them “you will die in what is a day to me” He told them they would die in the same day they ate thereof it was what would be a day to them otherwise it would not have much meaning. bd,
Bingo dude! Hebrews says that Christ would come in a “little while and will not delay” (Hebrews 10:37). It does not mean a “little while” to God but a “little while” to us. thinker
Quote For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Hebrews 10:37 All the above means is “SOON”!
All Paul is teaching is the Teachings of Habakkuk.
Encouragement to patient endurance by consideration of the shortness of the time till Christ shall come, and God's rejection of him that draws back.
Hebrews 10:37 Parrots Habakkuk 2:3, 4:
2 For the vision [is] yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
3 Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
In Habakkuk, it is the vision that is said to be about to come.
Christ, being the grand and ultimate subject of all prophetical vision, is here made by Paul, under inspiration, the subject of the Spirit's prophecy by Habakkuk, in its final and exhaustive fulfilment.
Quote A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. John 16:16 The just shall live by the faith of Him because he comes soon.
Once again “NO MAN KNOWS THE HOUR” not even Jesus himself so any guess is mere speculation but certainly it has not occured
thinker……….Have you ever thought how long 70 yrs is in God's timing, it equates as i recall about two and Half hours in the way GOD reckons time. Not very long in his timing, It also says GOD “shall make a Short work of the earth”. So 7000 thousand years is only 7 days in God timing. Mans life is like a vapor it appears only a little while and is gone. Very fast to say the least. IMO
gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 30 2009,16:25) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 30 2009,14:15) Of course the fire is not still burning, the scripture says “they suffered the vengeance of eternal fire”. That is past tense they already suffered this. My point with this post is to show that they won't be resurrected to incur further judgment.
946727……..You said Sodom and Gomorrah won't be resurected , but Jesus said they will and be shown more mercy the the Pharisees of his day would. You may have forgotten where Jesus said that, but he did and it is in scriptureMatt:10:15……… Jesus said….>It will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of Judgment then For the scribes and Pharisees.
If they are not going to be resurected then how could this be.
peace and love……………….gene
Hi Gene:I am aware of those scriptures, and it surely sounds like Jesus is saying that they wll be resurrected, but I can't believe that he means that Sodom and Ghomorrah that was destroyed. They have already been judged. As it states in Jude:
Quote Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. And also here:
Quote Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.And also here,
Quote 2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;In light of these scrptures, I would be more inlined to believe that Jesus was saying that the judgement would be more tolerable for the ungodly in the day of Judgement than for those who had seen the miracles that were done through him and had not repented.
I believe that the following scripture would support that the land of the ungodly would be called Sodom, but I could be wrong, and I am praying that God would correct me if so.
Quote Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Love in Christ,
MartyHi 94,
Everyone dies but that is not the judgement. You are misled in this matter.
Judgement comes later… after the resurrections.
Heb 9.27Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 31 2009,10:09) Hi 94,
Everyone dies but that is not the judgement. You are misled in this matter.
Judgement comes later… after the resurrections.
Heb 9.27
Hi Nick:Judgement for those who have died in their sins in the NT era will come 1000 years after the first resurrection. With that I will agree, but no, those in the OT have already been judged.
The scriptures state that those in the days of Noah were DESTROYED by the flood, and also, Sodom and Ghomorrah suffered the vengeance of “ETERNAL FIRE”.
And so, if you see this differently, we will just have to disagree at least until I am convinced that I am wrong in what I believe and see to be the truth.
Love in Christ,
Marty94……Nick is right, “it is appointed for man to die once and (after that) the Judgment”. Everyone who has ever lived will be resurrected and Judged. As far as the city's of Sodom and Gomorrah goes they did parish at that time and were ashes under others feet, however Jesus did say the they would recieve mercy in the day of Judgment, more them the Pharisees would. All will be raised all will be judged. This is not the (ONLY DAY) of Salvation it is a Day of Salvation, but not the only. IMO
gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 31 2009,11:14) 94……Nick is right, “it is appointed for man to die once and (after that) the Judgment”. Everyone who has ever lived will be resurrected and Judged. As far as the city's of Sodom and Gomorrah goes they did parish at that time and were ashes under others feet, however Jesus did say the they would recieve mercy in the day of Judgment, more them the Pharisees would. All will be raised all will be judged. This is not the (ONLY DAY) of Salvation it is a Day of Salvation, but not the only. IMO gene
Hi Gene:Maybe, but I believe to die could either mean spirtually, physically or both. Adam died spirtually in the day that he disobeyed God, and God rendered judgment to him as shown in Genesis 3, and all of humanity have sinned, we know this by the Law of God, we know that we have transgressed, therefore, since we have broken God's law, judgment ensues, but Jesus has paid the penalty for the judgment that was against all of humanity for this first death, and so for those who have come to God through him the judgment is “not guilty”, although we will go before the judgment seat of Christ to receive rewards.
Nick was saying people die every day but this is not the judgement, but Adam, those who were destroyed by the flood in the days of Noah, and Sodom and Ghommorah were judged by God and in the case of the wicked in the days of Noah and Sodom and Ghommorah they were destroyed. This was no ordinary death. They were judged by God.
Anyway, I have given you my understanding of this. I would hope that everyone would be saved, but based on my understanding of the scriptures, I don't believe that will happen.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi:
One other thing that I can add to this is that those who receive the mark of the beast are judged by the seven last plagues. They do not appear to be destroyed by these plagues and then resurrected to incur additional judgement.
Love in Christ,
Marty94………Actually Adam and Eve did not die Spiritually when they ate of the fruit, of good and evil, they were enlightened more spiritually and know they were naked, the gained understand and wisdom by doing that and even GOD said look the man has become as we are to Know (experience) good and evil. No they lived a long life in human terms and then died and will come up in the resurrection also. IMO
peace and love………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 31 2009,11:50) 94………Actually Adam and Eve did not die Spiritually when they ate of the fruit, of good and evil, they were enlightened more spiritually and know they were naked, the gained understand and wisdom by doing that and even GOD said look the man has become as we are to Know (experience) good and evil. No they lived a long life in human terms and then died and will come up in the resurrection also. IMO peace and love………………….gene
No Gene:I disagree. When they sinned, they lost their personal relationship with God. This is the judgment that God rendered:
Quote Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou returnPhysical death was part of this judgment.
And He cast them out of the Garden of Eden:
Quote Gen 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Oct. 31 2009,11:37) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 31 2009,11:14) 94……Nick is right, “it is appointed for man to die once and (after that) the Judgment”. Everyone who has ever lived will be resurrected and Judged. As far as the city's of Sodom and Gomorrah goes they did parish at that time and were ashes under others feet, however Jesus did say the they would recieve mercy in the day of Judgment, more them the Pharisees would. All will be raised all will be judged. This is not the (ONLY DAY) of Salvation it is a Day of Salvation, but not the only. IMO gene
Hi Gene:Maybe, but I believe to die could either mean spirtually, physically or both. Adam died spirtually in the day that he disobeyed God, and God rendered judgment to him as shown in Genesis 3, and all of humanity have sinned, we know this by the Law of God, we know that we have transgressed, therefore, since we have broken God's law, judgment ensues, but Jesus has paid the penalty for the judgment that was against all of humanity for this first death, and so for those who have come to God through him the judgment is “not guilty”, although we will go before the judgment seat of Christ to receive rewards.
Nick was saying people die every day but this is not the judgement, but Adam, those who were destroyed by the flood in the days of Noah, and Sodom and Ghommorah were judged by God and in the case of the wicked in the days of Noah and Sodom and Ghommorah they were destroyed. This was no ordinary death. They were judged by God.
Anyway, I have given you my understanding of this. I would hope that everyone would be saved, but based on my understanding of the scriptures, I don't believe that will happen.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Adam did not die spiritually that is something you have clinged to as to make an excuse for not understanding why Adam did not die and the reason is Adam repented and was forgiven but most don't know. Just like Jonah, Satan told Adam and Eve you will not die and Jonah said:Jonah 4
1But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.2And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Genesis 3:3-5Why?
I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
What did God do? He covered their shame, now where is it when he meted out punishment did he kill them. He told them that they would in fact die but there death hundreds of years off. Adam repented and lived for 930 years and that is the truth but most don't know.
Quote (942767 @ Oct. 31 2009,13:02) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 31 2009,11:50) 94………Actually Adam and Eve did not die Spiritually when they ate of the fruit, of good and evil, they were enlightened more spiritually and know they were naked, the gained understand and wisdom by doing that and even GOD said look the man has become as we are to Know (experience) good and evil. No they lived a long life in human terms and then died and will come up in the resurrection also. IMO peace and love………………….gene
No Gene:I disagree. When they sinned, they lost their personal relationship with God. This is the judgment that God rendered:
Quote Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou returnPhysical death was part of this judgment.
And He cast them out of the Garden of Eden:
Quote Gen 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.Love in Christ,
Marty
If they lost thei personal relationship with God then how did their children know about and offer God a sacrifice? Why did God accept the sacrifice of Abel?How did God have a personal relationship with Enoch?
Speculation always lead people astray. God did not break off his relationship with anyone.
Hi BD.
Adam died that day-within 1000 yrs.
Though man gave his allegiance to another god in the garden of Eden commonsense still leads men to know of the Creator.[Rom1]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 31 2009,15:25) Hi BD.
Adam died that day-within 1000 yrs.
Though man gave his allegiance to another god in the garden of Eden commonsense still leads men to know of the Creator.[Rom1]
You are speculating! there is no reason to believe that God was talking about 1000 years when God had already taught Adam about the days, weeks and years and he taught them as we know it today and yet you think what is not written.Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 31 2009,14:56) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 31 2009,13:02) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 31 2009,11:50) 94………Actually Adam and Eve did not die Spiritually when they ate of the fruit, of good and evil, they were enlightened more spiritually and know they were naked, the gained understand and wisdom by doing that and even GOD said look the man has become as we are to Know (experience) good and evil. No they lived a long life in human terms and then died and will come up in the resurrection also. IMO peace and love………………….gene
No Gene:I disagree. When they sinned, they lost their personal relationship with God. This is the judgment that God rendered:
Quote Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou returnPhysical death was part of this judgment.
And He cast them out of the Garden of Eden:
Quote Gen 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.Love in Christ,
Marty
If they lost thei personal relationship with God then how did their children know about and offer God a sacrifice? Why did God accept the sacrifice of Abel?How did God have a personal relationship with Enoch?
Speculation always lead people astray. God did not break off his relationship with anyone.
Hi BD:I have posted relative to Adam and the judgment of God concerning him. I have posted out of the bible. There is no where in the bible that says that Adam repented.
Of course, they would have told Cain and Abel about God and their experience.
I have given you what is written in the bible, and so, if anyone is speculating it would be you.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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