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Nick…….What scripture supports that allegory. I have read where we are lead away by our Own doings (lusts), not some unseen spook doing it. Your biggest problem here is you fail to understand what Spirit really is, It is not a Person it is Intellects driving the thoughts (IN) the person. There is (NO) devil as Most think of HIM. Satan (the adversary) is MAN HIMSELF, with the SPIRIT or the (INTELLECT) of an adversary of GOD working in him. SPIRIT is (NOT) a PERSON it is what is (IN) a PERSON. God is the one who both tries and refines us not some spook you call a Satan Being of some kind. You split the powers of God between Him and a so-called Satan being , you are in a sense creating another GOD Being. No such Being exists, this is Just Pagan Ideologies that have found it's way into “Christianity”. IMO
Nick there is other wed sites where this is explained clearer, Just Type in, “Is there a real Satan”, and read what some have posted. You might gain some understanding you lack. IMO
peace and love……………………gene
Hi RM,
Just a false idea a numerologist brought here.
No the Spirit of Jesus is the bright morning star of 2 peter 1 and rev 22Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2010,16:58) Hi RM,
Just a false idea a numerologist brought here.
No the Spirit of Jesus is the bright morning star of 2 peter 1 and rev 22
Bright morning star is literally translated into latin or greek as Lucifer….so what are you saying? I'm lying? lolQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2010,18:08) Hi RM, Bright
2986 lamprosMorning
4407a prolosStar.
792 aster
I'm mistaken, Lucifer doesn't translate to morningstar it translates to light-bearer in latin. Helal translates to daystar or morning star…The Helal is known as the lucifer for The morning star brings in the light.
That was the folly in my understanding, that lucifer literally meant morning star, but it doesn't… it is a nickname for the moningstar in the same way we call YHWH …God.
So yes back to my point…Jesus is the true lucifer…
according to
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
So don't give to Satan what rightfully belongs to christ the true lucifer!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2010,21:44) Hi RM,
Thank you for acknowledging your mistake.
Do not add others to it.
I've acknowledged mine….
but have you acknowledged yours?Can you say Jesus is The Lucifer?
And not Satan?
RM……….You are right in a sense, the word Lucifer does mean light bringer, And that is exactly what the Morning Star (the sun) does, it brings the light of day to us. This name is also applied to the Saints. Peter used a metaphor of this also saying, “until the day star rises in our hearts”.
2Peter 1:19……> We have also a more sure word of Prophecy; where unto ye do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star (sun) arise in your hearts.
Rev 2:28…….> And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches.
Rev 22:16…..> I Jesus have sent mine messenger to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the Offspring of David, and the bright and Morning Star.
I believe the Bright and Morning Star is relating the the sun , but some think it is Venus. Any way the word Lucifer does relate to this, and With regards to the King of Babylon He was consider a rising Star,(a Lucifer) as many Actors are today are call rising stars this is where the term came from. It is a Metaphor for growing in Strength rather in Knowledge or Power. IMO
peace and lvoe to you and yours…………………….gene
Who Is Satan?
In Christianity there is a clear dichotomy between G-d and Satan, or “the devil.” What most Christians don't realize is that there is no support for a devil character in the Torah. Furthermore, their version of Satan is a distorted view of what the Torah actually teaches. Lets examine…To begin, Satan isn’t a name! It’s a title given to any angel that is sent by G-d to do a specific task. In Hebrew, it is haSatan. This translates to “the adversary.” G-d sends haSatans to work for Him, as all angels do, as we shall see below.
The first time Satan occurs in Scripture is in Numbers 22:22. Lets take a look at two common translations of this verse:
But God was very angry when he went, and the angel of the LORD stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. (NIV)
And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him. (KJV)
Have you seen Satan yet in either of these? No? Lets check the Hebrew then:
Elokim aph charah malak haShem yatsab derek satan rakab athown shanayim na’ar.
Read it carefully. Do you see it now? These Christian translations have rendered Satan as “an advesary” or “opposition.” This would be fine, except in other places in scripture they leave it as Satan. The reason they fail to do this here is because this verse clearly refutes virtually all Christian doctrines about Satan. It states that G-d sent haSatan to strike down Balaam. It also states that Satan is a Malek haShem, an Angel of the L-rd.
If Christian translations rendered every instance of Satan as “an advesary” or “opposition” they would be justified in doing it here. But translating Satan to “advesary” where convienent and turning it into a personal noun in other places is dishonest. However, they are forced to do it, because a verse calling Satan an angel of G-d would clearly expose their devil myth.
This isn't the only instance of a Christian word fraud in the Jewish scriptures. The early Church Fathers developed this devil mythology as well, inserting names and words that do not even occur in the text. An example of this is Lucifer – originally a Latin word, this was turned into a personal noun by St. Jerome and inserted into the Vulgate. It occurs nowhere in the Hebrew text.
Think I'm making it up? The great patron of the Church Fathers, the Catholic Church, even admits this fraud. They do it quite eloquently in the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia:
“The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. The Vulgate employs the word also for “the light of the morning” (Job 11:17), “the signs of the zodiac” (Job 38:32), and “the aurora” (Psalm 109:3). Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:12) as preeminent among the princes of his time; to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28), by reason of its excellency; finally to Jesus Christ himself (2 Peter 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the “Exultet” of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.
The Syriac version and the version of Aquila derive the Hebrew noun helel from the verb yalal, “to lament”; St. Jerome agrees with them (In Isaiah 1:14), and makes Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel who must lament the loss of his original glory bright as the morning star. In Christian tradition this meaning of Lucifer has prevailed; the Fathers maintain that Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but denotes only the state from which he has fallen (Petavius, De Angelis, III, iii, 4).” (Maas 1)
I hope everyone caught the part where Jesus is called Lucifer twice in the Latin Vulgate. Satan:Lucifer:Jesus?
Adam……………Very good post brother, Many have bought into the lie that there is this (BEING) Named Satan or Lucifer going around jumping in and out of people controlling them a pure creation by pagan religions and infected the Church years ago. We are warned to come out of those false Doctrines or teachings about DEVILS and DEMONS taught by MYSTERY RELIGIONS.
Man himself is an adversary of GOD not some elusive being working in disguise , and at times God uses Angles to be an adversary to man to resist mans evil intentions or for discipling man as in the case of JOB. There does exist and Adversarial Spirit (INTELLECT) and THAT IS WHAT A SATAN IS no matter who or where it is being displayed in either GOD , Angle or Man, yes even in Peter or Judas and the Pharisees or anyone can be a SATAN or adversary.
Jodi Lee, Has given excellent Posts on this subject She truly did here research as you have also Adam. Thanks
peace and love to you and yours Adam………………gene
Hi All
Yea and here is what GMs source also teaches…
—————————————–
Welcome!
Got questions about Christianity? I understand. In fact, I'm an ex-Christian. I left Christianity when I began to seriously study the Torah and discovered that a belief in Jesus and the New Testament was inconsistent with what the Torah actually teaches. So I made this website. Source
——————————————I find it amusing that people like Gene and GM are so adamant to reject teachings of the RCC while they swallow like a camel the teachings of those who even deny that the Jesus of the NT existed!
Laughable indeed!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2010,01:56) Hi All Yea and here is what GMs source also teaches…
—————————————–
Welcome!
Got questions about Christianity? I understand. In fact, I'm an ex-Christian. I left Christianity when I began to seriously study the Torah and discovered that a belief in Jesus and the New Testament was inconsistent with what the Torah actually teaches. So I made this website. Source
——————————————I find it amusing that people like Gene and GM are so adamant to reject teachings of the RCC while they swallow like a camel the teachings of those who even deny that the Jesus of the NT existed!
Laughable indeed!
WJ
Yes Keith.GM and Gene are friends of Christ's enemies.
Jack
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 27 2010,01:40) Adam……………Very good post brother, Many have bought into the lie that there is this (BEING) Named Satan or Lucifer going around jumping in and out of people controlling them a pure creation by pagan religions and infected the Church years ago. We are warned to come out of those false Doctrines or teachings about DEVILS and DEMONS taught by MYSTERY RELIGIONS. Man himself is an adversary of GOD not some elusive being working in disguise , and at times God uses Angles to be an adversary to man to resist mans evil intentions or for discipling man as in the case of JOB. There does exist and Adversarial Spirit (INTELLECT) and THAT IS WHAT A SATAN IS no matter who or where it is being displayed in either GOD , Angle or Man, yes even in Peter or Judas and the Pharisees or anyone can be a SATAN or adversary.
Jodi Lee, Has given excellent Posts on this subject She truly did here research as you have also Adam. Thanks
peace and love to you and yours Adam………………gene
Why don't you come right out and say the whole Bible is a fabrication of mans mind, and be done with it.
I mean, was Jesus really real, do you know any one that has seen him? For that matter, are we real, or is it just our imagination that we think we are alive. Yea, I think the pain in my but is probably not real too, I'm just going to ignore it from now on.Georg
Georg………Don't get yourself in a uproar, com-down , Tell me have (YOU) ever (SEEM) a DEVIL , may have (SEEN) Jesus bothe alive and dead and alive again. But your elusive “SATAN”, no one seem to see, is he a spook or a leprechaun or something, does he have horns and a pitch fork, a cape and does he send all these little devils on our shoulders trying to guide us wrong.
Georg the (WORD) SATAN simply means an ADVERSARY and nothing MORE, rather of GOD or Angles or Man. It is a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of an adversary and Yes PETER was a SATAN and JUDAS a DEVIL also as Well as the Pharisees. You and most are turning a (WORD) adversary into a (METAPHYSICAL) BEING , There is no Satan beings, except those who are adversaries of GOD. Anyone can be a SATAN or ADVERSARY, its just that simple. IMO
peace and love to you and Irene……………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 27 2010,01:40) Adam……………Very good post brother, Many have bought into the lie that there is this (BEING) Named Satan or Lucifer going around jumping in and out of people controlling them a pure creation by pagan religions and infected the Church years ago. We are warned to come out of those false Doctrines or teachings about DEVILS and DEMONS taught by MYSTERY RELIGIONS. Man himself is an adversary of GOD not some elusive being working in disguise , and at times God uses Angles to be an adversary to man to resist mans evil intentions or for discipling man as in the case of JOB. There does exist and Adversarial Spirit (INTELLECT) and THAT IS WHAT A SATAN IS no matter who or where it is being displayed in either GOD , Angle or Man, yes even in Peter or Judas and the Pharisees or anyone can be a SATAN or adversary.
Jodi Lee, Has given excellent Posts on this subject She truly did here research as you have also Adam. Thanks
peace and love to you and yours Adam………………gene
Thank you very much brother Gene for your encouraging words. Infact I am studying books on “The Origins of Satan and Devil” these days. I find 180 degree variation in definition of Satan between Christianity and Judaism. Even from O.T and N.T. Christianity made Satan and devil as another god who is opposite to God of the Bible.Peace and love to you
AdamWord Satan in the Old Testament,
The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 07854
Original WordWord Origin
!tXfrom (07853)Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
SatanTWOT – 2252a
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
saw-tawnNoun MasculineDefinition
1.adversary, one who withstands
a.adversary (in general – personal or national)
2.superhuman adversary
a.Satan (as noun pr)King James Word Usage – Total: 27
Satan 19, adversary 7, withstand 1*************************
Numbers 22:22 And God's anger was kindled because he went : and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him…..32 32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me:The first SATAN we see is a messenger of God, a messenger who performs God’s works and is called Hebrew saw-tawn because he is being an adversary unto man.
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1 Samuel 29:4 And the princes of the Philistines were wroth with him; and the princes of the Philistines said unto him, Make this fellow return , that he may go again to his place which thou hast appointed him, and let him not go down with us to battle, lest in the battle he be anadversary to us: for wherewith should he reconcile himself unto his master? should it not be with the heads of these men?Second example of Hebrew saw-tawn represents a man being an adversary to other men.
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2 Samuel 19:22 And David said , What have I to do with you, ye sons of Zeruiah, that ye should this day be adversaries unto me? shall there any man be put to death this day in Israel? for do not I know that I am this day king over Israel?Third use of Hebrew saw-tawn in the bible is once again a man being an adversary to another man.
*******************************
1 Kings 5:2 And Solomon sent to Hiram, saying , 3 Thou knowest how that David my father could not build an house unto the name of the LORD his God for the wars which were about him on every side , until the LORD put them under the soles of his feet. 4 But now the LORD my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary nor evil occurrent.The fourth use of Hebrew saw-tawn (adversary), is once again representative of humans (military forces).
*********************************
1 Kings 11:14 And the LORD stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king's seed in Edom. 15 For it came to pass, when David was in Edom, and Joab the captain of the host was gone up to bury the slain, after he had smitten every male in Edom; 16 (For six months did Joab remain there with all Israel, until he had cut off every male in Edom:) 17 That Hadad fled , he and certain Edomites of his father's servants with him, to go into Egypt; Hadad being yet a little child. 18 And they arose out of Midian, and came to Paran: and they took men with them out of Paran, and they came to Egypt, unto Pharaoh king of Egypt; which gave him an house, and appointed him victuals, and gave him land. 19 And Hadad found great favour in the sight of Pharaoh, so that he gave him to wife the sister of his own wife, the sister of Tahpenes the queen. 20 And the sister of Tahpenes bare him Genubath his son, whom Tahpenes weaned in Pharaoh's house: and Genubath was in Pharaoh's household among the sons of Pharaoh. 21 And when Hadad heard in Egypt that David slept with his fathers, and that Joab the captain of the host was dead , Hadad said to Pharaoh, Let me depart , that I may go to mine own country. 22 Then Pharaoh said unto him, But what hast thou lacked with me, that, behold, thou seekest to go to thine own country? And he answered , Nothing: howbeit let me go in any wise . 23 And God stirred him up another adversary, Rezon the son of Eliadah, which fled from his lord Hadadezer king of Zobah: 24 And he gathered men unto him, and became captain over a band, when David slew them of Zobah: and they went to Damascus, and dwelt therein, and reigned in Damascus. 25 And he was an adversary to Israel all the days of Solomon, beside the mischief that Hadad did: and he abhorred Israel, and reigned over Syria.This is where the use of the word saw-tawn gets interesting, for in the above chapter we have God stirring up one man to be an adversary against another.
False Christianity teaches that a jealous malevolent fallen angel is behind men being against each other and causing them to engage in war. However NO such scripture ever states such, but we do have several scriptures where God causes the sword and war to occur among men, tribes, and nations, and where God plays an active role in the outcome of those wars.
Check out the following-
Deuteronomy 20:4 for the Lord your God is He who goes with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.'
Deuteronomy 21:10 “When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive,
Deuteronomy 28:7 “The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways.
Deuteronomy 28:25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth.
…………48 therefore you shall serve your enemies,whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in need of everything; and He will put a yoke of iron on your neck until He has destroyed you. 49The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young. 51 And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you. 52 They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. 54 The sensitive and very refined man among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the rest of his children whom he leaves behind, 55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.
Scripture is very clear that it is YHWH who sends man against man, and that He plays an active role in the outcome of wars.
Notice how God knows how the Israelites will behave when given major hardship, like that of an ANIMAL (A SERPENT FOLLOWING AFTER it’s OWN NATURE), who will eat it’s own young in order to survive. A mother is brought to eat her own children, not because she is possessed by fallen angels, but because she FEARS her own life and turns to her instincts to survive, lacking a higher spirit that looks to God for strength and answers. Without the Holy Spirit working in man, man turns to act upon his nature a nature very much alike with that of serpents and other beasts of the field.
God will cause one nation to make war and pillage another nation. How does God cause one nation to come from afar and go against another? How many times in history have we seen tribes pick up and migrate because of lack of food due to pestilence and adverse weather conditions, and then fight against another tribe they encounter in order to take over their land that is more abundant? Who CONTROLS such things as bugs and weather through His Powers causing famine ?….it is YHWH He ALONE brings forth cursing and darkness. There is NO other God besides Him, which translates to mean there is NO OTHER being that exists with POWERS, only YHWH is the source, and He uses His Messengers to bring those inflictions, therefore making Messengers of God adversaries/ SAW-TAWNS. YHWH and His messengers are SATANS and DEMONS unto Man, bringing all sorts of darkness upon them, as Deuteronomy 28 makes it so very clear.
IMO The doctrine of fallen angels and demons within Christianity is a doctrine of FALSE gods!!
Deuteronomy 30:7 Also the Lord your God will put all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you.
Jeremiah 10:8 But they are altogether dull-hearted and foolish; A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine. 9 Silver is beaten into plates; It is brought from Tarshish, And gold from Uphaz, The work of the craftsman And of the hands of the metalsmith; Blue and purple are their clothing; They are all the work of skillful men. 10 But the Lord is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King. At His wrath the earth will tremble, And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation. 11 Thus you shall say to them: “The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under these heavens.” 12 He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, And has stretched out the heavens at His discretion. 13 When He utters His voice, There is a multitude of waters in the heavens: “And He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, He brings the wind out of His treasuries.” 14 Everyone is dull-hearted, without knowledge; Every metalsmith is put to shame by an image; For his molded image is falsehood, And there is no breath in them.
2 Kings 1:1 Moab rebelled against Israel after the death of Ahab. 2 Now Ahaziah fell through the lattice of his upper room in Samaria, and was injured; so he sent messengers and said to them, “Go, inquire of Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron, whether I shall recover from this injury.” 3 But the angel of the Lord said to Elijah the Tishbite, “Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say to them, 'Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are going to inquire of Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron?' 4 Now therefore, thus says the Lord: 'You shall not come down from the bed to which you have gone up, but you shall surely die.' ” So Elijah departed.
Amos 1: 8 I will cut off the inhabitant from Ashdod, And the one who holds the scepter from Ashkelon; I will turn My hand against Ekron, And the remnant of the Philistines shall perish,” Says the Lord God.
Zephaniah 2:4For Gaza shall be forsaken, And Ashkelon desolate; They shall drive out Ashdod at noonday, And Ekron shall be uprooted.
WHO do you think the people of Ekron denoted their uprooting too? Certainly it was not YHWH, it was their OWN MADE UP demons!!
False gods have been established through time out of ignorance. YHWH made himself known to Israel when he began the plagues and set them free from Egypt. YHWH gave them the law and watched over them, He fed them and protected them, and as well He tested them, and if they disobeyed He punished them.
Israel was to believe THE TRUTH, that it is YHWH ALONE who could bring blessing and cursing, for He is the ONLY TRUE GOD, and YHWH warned them against believing in false gods!! Other nations had no such communication with YHWH, they were left to their OWN IMAGINATIONS as to what might bring them blessing and cursing. Their imaginations created false gods.
Pagans attributed the good and bad things that happened to them to so called good and evil spirits, spirits they made up and made carved and molten images out of, ALL THE WHILE NOT KNOWING THE TRUTH, that it WAS YHWH, the only TRUE supernatural Spirit that is the SOURCE of ALL POWER!!
I Samuel 2:6 “The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. The Lord makes the poor and the rich;”
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
The god of Ekron, Beelzebub was a false god, it could not walk or talk or have any powers, and neither could it’s demons perform any powers. When Israel fell into captivity by these pagans they too started denoting plagues to false spirits. God predicted Israels worship of false gods, and their sin was not in that they loved these gods, it was that the FEARED them and DENOTED God’s POWERS to other beings.
Scripture NEVER states that fallen angels pose as false gods and are the demons that bring calamity to people. The Christian belief in Satan as a fallen angel who has power to inflict, is IMO equals pure IDOLATRY. To denote YHWH’s powers to another being is to CREATE A FALSE GOD. It’s rather ironic really…..Satan worshipers worship a false image that Christians MADE UP!! Being the one true God is not based upon being the supernatural being with final authority that is the only being worthy of honor and worship for righteousness sake, YHWH being the ONE TRUE God has EVERYTHING to do with him being the ONLY being that exists with POWERS.
Matthew 12:23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?” 24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”
The Pharisees believed in the god of Ekron Beelzebub and his demons. Ekron was not inflicted by a fallen angel pretending to be the god Beelzebub, we are told directly that it was YHWH that would curse other nations and therefore it was His evil spirits or rather DEMONS acting as a SATAN (adversary) unto the people. Matthew 12 exposes quite well that the Pharisees were whores, they believed in false gods!!
Exodus 4:11 “So the Lord said to him,” Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?”
Deut 30: 19,” ….I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;”
Deut 28:28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart.
Daniel 4:24 this is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king: 25 They shall driv
e you from men, your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you eat grass like oxen. They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses. 26 And inasmuch as they gave the command to leave the stump and roots of the tree, your kingdom shall be assured to you, after you come to know that Heaven rules.Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
Daniel 2:20 Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, For wisdom and might are His. 21 And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding.
Job 12:23 He makes nations great, and destroys them; He enlarges nations, and guides them.24 He takes away the understanding of the chiefs of the people of the earth, And makes them wander in a pathless wilderness.
Psalm 75:6 For exaltation comes neither from the east Nor from the west nor from the south. 7 But God is the Judge: He puts down one, And exalts another. 8 For in the hand of the Lord there is a cup, And the wine is red; It is fully mixed, and He pours it out; Surely its dregs shall all the wicked of the earth Drain and drink down.
There exists NO scripture that says YHWH “allows” a force of supernatural evil beings to inflict and curse people, on the contrary He says that He ALONE inflicts and curses people. There exists No scripture that says YHWH “allows” a force of supernatural evil beings to rule over the nations, on the contrary He says that it is He who has charge over kings and their kingdoms. Scripture shows that people who believed that “other beings” were capable of doing such things, were people who were FOOLISH, they were people believing in the imagination of their own minds!!
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As one continues to look at every instance in the OT where the Hebrew word for adversary (phonetic in Hebrew as saw-tawn) is used, they will see that there exists NO evidence of the Hebrew word representing one individual or a proper name of one individual.Hi Sis Jodi,
That is an amazing post on Satan and devil. Christianity made mess of every thing about God and devil. They incorporated much from their Pagan neighbours. You can see this even in the books of N.T like Jude, 1 & 2 Peter, Revelation, Gospels etc. If you are not biased for N.T you will see the truth in these words of mine.Peace and love to you
AdamAdam,
You apear ignorant of early Jewish beliefs as the Talmud fuses Satan with Ashmedai the king of demons. He seems to be less diabolical malign than in the book of Torbit. a deutercanical book. The book of Torbit is reported to have been written by a Hebrew the Naphtali tribe living in Assyria during the reign of Sargon II and it is believed it was written in the 2nd Cerntury B.C. despite the setting being based in 8th Century B.S. It is therefore an early Jewish source though I believe it to be historical fiction as opposed to an actual scripture. It still serves to show what some Jews believed at that time.
Quote (kerwin @ May 28 2010,20:38) Adam, You apear ignorant of early Jewish beliefs as the Talmud fuses Satan with Ashmedai the king of demons. He seems to be less diabolical malign than in the book of Torbit. a deutercanical book. The book of Torbit is reported to have been written by a Hebrew the Naphtali tribe living in Assyria during the reign of Sargon II and it is believed it was written in the 2nd Cerntury B.C. despite the setting being based in 8th Century B.S. It is therefore an early Jewish source though I believe it to be historical fiction as opposed to an actual scripture. It still serves to show what some Jews believed at that time.
Hi brother Kerwin,
You seem to follow all those non-canonical books which are deviated from the true religion of the Hebrew Bible. They never appeared in Cannon of Judaism. Please don't base your logics on those human imaginations. So you compare N.T with those human creations?
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