Salvation

Participant

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 06 2007,02:59)

Quote (acertainchap @ July 06 2007,01:31)

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 06 2007,01:15)

Quote (acertainchap @ July 06 2007,00:49)

Idk. Please defend your reasoning.

Hi Chap,

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him [Satan, the dragon, the devil, the serpent], whose names are not written in THE BOOK OF THE [‘the’ is in the Greek manuscripts] LIFE OF THE LAMB [THAT IS CHRIST] slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:8)!
Oh how much we lose when translators both translate and interpret wrongly. It was wrong of them to leave out the article “the” in this verse, as it is IN the Greek manuscripts. It is not merely “the book of life … of the Lamb,” but rather, “the book of … the life of the Lamb!” What a difference a simple three letter article makes in the meaning of this most profound verse! This book is not merely a list of the names of the saints in alphabetical order. The “book of life” is the book of SOMEONE’S life—Jesus Christ’s LIFE!

So being written in the book of life is really the new, converted, believer’s life “IN Christ.” And when God comes to judge the world, we will have no fear of judgment for we are being judged now “IN Christ.”

Hope this helps you understand my reasoning.
You are free to continue to believe that it is a literal book if you wish. I guess there would be no real harm done. But consider that almost nothing in Rev. was literal.

Tim

In essence the people who do not worship Satan or receive his mark will be saved, correct?

Hi Chap,

the inference is that what you say is true, although scripture says the converse. It says that all of those not written in the book of the life, worship satan. However that was not the point that I was trying to make.
What I wanted for you to see was that the book of life is in fact the book of the life of Jesus. The book of life is Jesus.

Tim

Hi Tim4,
Yes the book of life belongs to the lamb who is the judge.
The lamb is not a book and the book is not Christ.

There are many books spoken of in scripture.

The book of remembrance, for example, then all the books that are opened at judgement day.

Are none of them actually real?
Are they all Christ, or is this just your opinion?

July 5, 2007 at 10:20 pm#58222

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2007,08:52)

Tim[/quote]
Hi Tim4,
Yes the book of life belongs to the lamb who is the judge.
The lamb is not a book and the book is not Christ.

Hi Nick,

No, it is not a book that belongs to the lamb.
It is the book of the life of the lamb.

Tim

July 5, 2007 at 10:29 pm#58224

Participant

Yes Tim4,
The book of life
of the Lamb.
Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works
Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

July 5, 2007 at 10:46 pm#58227

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2007,08:52)

There are many books spoken of in scripture.

The book of remembrance, for example, then all the books that are opened at judgement day.

Are none of them actually real?
Are they all Christ, or is this just your opinion?

Hi Nick,

I never mentioned all books in scriptures. why have you expanded on my statement? I never said that lal books were Christ. Why did you make that up?

I am speaking about The book of Revelation which was “signified” by the use of signs and symbols. Signs and symbols always represent or mean something other than the sign or symbol itself.

Let us just look at a few verses in chapter two alone.

Verse 5, Will God literally punish the church of Ephesus by removing a literal candlestick? NO! Removing a literal candlestick would be no great loss to anyone. But from what we learned in verse 20 of chapter one, the candlestick IS one of the churches . So Christ is threatening to REMOVE THE WHOLE CHURCH, not some piece of furniture or candlestick from the building of a church.

Verse 7, Is the tree of life a literal tree that one literally eats?

Verse 9, Was the church in Smyrna literally in poverty and literally rich at the same time? Does “synagogue of Satan” mean a literal synagogue where Satan has a Rabbi teaching the Law to a congregation every Sabbath day?

Verse 13, Is a name something that one literally holds fast to with one’s hands?

Verse 16, Will Christ literally do battle by using a literal sword which He literally keeps in His mouth? Or do we not read in another place in God’s word that this “sword” IS God’s Word? (Heb. 4:12).

Verse 17, Will Christ reward the faithful with a literal little white stone? Can’t we see that the stone and the name written in it represents something else? Something of much greater value?

Verse 20, Was the harlot Jezebel literally in the Thyatira church? Literal Jezebel died CENTURIES before this book was written by John. Jezebel in the physical represents or symbolizes a SPIRITUAL condition in the church of Thyatira.

Verse 22, Will Christ literally throw literal Jezebel into a literal bed where she will literally commit adultery with literal men?

Verse 23, Will Christ kill literal children of the literal harlot, Jezebel?

Verse 27, Will the saints beat the nations with a literal rod of iron into literal small pieces like broken pottery?

Verse 28, Will Christ give the literal morning star to His saints? Where would they put it? What would they do with it?
It is obvious that each of these talk of symbols that mean something else.

So why must we believe that the book of life is a literal book Nick?

Tim

July 5, 2007 at 10:53 pm#58228

Participant

Hi Tim4,
So if you do not accept the word of revelation concerning books what of these?
Daniel 7:10
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Malachi 3:16
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

Philippians 4:3
And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

July 5, 2007 at 11:03 pm#58231

Participant

Hi Nick,

If you feel better believing that all of these symbols are literal I will not try to change you.
I don't believe that any harm will come to you for not understanding the symbolism used
in scriptures.

God knows that you are on fire for His word.

Tim

July 5, 2007 at 11:04 pm#58232

Participant

Hi Nick,

Of course you understand that I didn't mean that you were literally on fire, right?

Tim

July 5, 2007 at 11:35 pm#58238

Participant

Hi kj,
From another thread
“Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2007,10:37)
Hi 94,
Of course there is no salvation in scripture by confession of Jesus as Lord.

Off topic on this one, but are you sure Nick?

Romans 10:9-10 – that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

You and Paul might want to sit down and chat about this one “

Firstly check who Romans was written to.

Rom 1
” 7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ”.

As with all the words of Paul they were not for the world but for those already in Christ. Romans in fact was written to the new jewish converts as was Galatians. So He was pleading with them to lklet go of their hold on reliance on the Law and TO INSTEAD GRASP ONTO THE LEADING OF THE SPIRIT IN ROMANS 10. It is popularly offered as a new gospel of salvation by affirmation.

There are no new gospels.
The gospel of rebirth into Christ is eternal.

July 6, 2007 at 12:22 am#58248

chosenone

Participant

The 'gospel of Nick” must be new. Existing scripture doesn't mention this 'new gospel' of his.

July 6, 2007 at 1:29 am#58260

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2007,11:35)

Hi kj,
From another thread
“Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2007,10:37)
Hi 94,
Of course there is no salvation in scripture by confession of Jesus as Lord.

Off topic on this one, but are you sure Nick?

You and Paul might want to sit down and chat about this one “

Firstly check who Romans was written to.

Rom 1
” 7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ”.

There are no new gospels.
The gospel of rebirth into Christ is eternal.

Nick,

I had to smile at this one. So you are saying that Romans 10:9-10 is to only be applied to people who have already entered into salvation? If that is so, what are they being saved from in 10:9? The boogeyman?

Man, I'm going to study Bible more. Seems I can throw alot of the books out because they don't apply to me! Hooray!

July 6, 2007 at 1:38 am#58261

Participant

Nick, BTW, you DO seem to have some issues with context. You try to run all the way back to Romans 1 to see who the book is for but fail to read the first few verses of chapter 10! Paul was teaching the Roman believers some lessons to pass on to unbelievers!

Romans 10:1-3 – Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

Look back at the end of chapter 9 to see who “them” was, brother. It was Israel – they were seeking righteousness by the Law!

Please, please study the Bible with a mind to the real context of verses. Else,you can believe anything.

July 6, 2007 at 1:49 am#58264

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ July 06 2007,13:29)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2007,11:35)

Hi kj,
From another thread
“Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2007,10:37)
Hi 94,
Of course there is no salvation in scripture by confession of Jesus as Lord.

Off topic on this one, but are you sure Nick?

You and Paul might want to sit down and chat about this one “

Firstly check who Romans was written to.

Rom 1
” 7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ”.

There are no new gospels.
The gospel of rebirth into Christ is eternal.

Nick,

Man, I'm going to study Bible more. Seems I can throw alot of the books out because they don't apply to me! Hooray!

Hi kj,
Do you say this is another gospel?
Is this another avenue to salvation not spoken of by Christ and not demonstrated by the apostles, including Paul, who wrote this?
Do you have supporting verses to confirm this is a new way not through the gate?
Christ spoke of those who came in by other means and not too kindly in Jn 10.

The Spirit is given must must be allowed to take root in us and to live in us and speak through us as with Christ. The Spirit of Christ had been given to them and was was in their hearts and in their mouths and they needed to let that Spirit set them free.

Not all produce fruit from the investment given them as the Spirit. The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God. That means we must submit to that Spirit and not quench or grieve that Spirit. The Spirit must be allowed to become in us a fountain of life.

The Jews had been comfortably in control following rules and regulations in the belief it led to righteousness. But the righteousness of Christ is given to us and we must let God use us as vessels.

July 6, 2007 at 2:01 am#58266

Participant

Nick,

Another gospel? Nah. Have you missed what verse 9-10 say? These are not my words brother, they are in the Bible. If you accuse anyone of another gospel than you better start with Paul.

Let's take a look-see at confession of Jesus then, shall we?

Matthew 10:32 – “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.
Philippians 2:11 – and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

How about belief in Christ?

Acts 16:31 – They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

No new gospel, just the one the Bible teaches. Have I missed something?

July 6, 2007 at 2:13 am#58267

Participant

Hi kj,
Belief alone does not save demons or men.[Jas]
There are many things written in scripture about the sovereign saving powers of God.

If anyone gives us a cup of water because we belong to Christ they will receive salvation in the great white throne judgement after the second resurrection. But our hope is the first resurrection into the sabbath rest of God. There is only one way into the first resurrection into the 1000 yr reign of Christ and we are to teach that. It is what Peter taught at Pentecost and what the apostles showed in acts and we should take Rom 10 in that context.

July 6, 2007 at 4:58 am#58344

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2007,14:13)

Hi kj,
Belief alone does not save demons or men.[Jas]
There are many things written in scripture about the sovereign saving powers of God.

*SIGH*

Nick,

The James quote about demons believing in God is not the same. I can believe in Santa Clause but that doesn't make him any more real. I can also believe in the President of the US, but that doesn't make me like his policies and follow him.

The belief that lies in Christ is the faith is his death, burial, and resurrection, and that he is my Savior and Lord. This is preceded by repentance so that I may turn from my former life and accept the new that is in the Son.

Like I said, your disagreement should not be with me but with the scriptures I quoted. I just listed them for you.

Good night and God bless.

July 6, 2007 at 5:03 am#58347

Participant

Hi KJ,
You say
“The belief that lies in Christ is the faith is his death, burial, and resurrection, and that he is my Savior and Lord.”
Ahh.
So understanding saves us?
No.
Another new gospel bites the dust.

January 30, 2008 at 6:20 pm#80412

Participant

For cato

March 14, 2008 at 2:38 am#83876

Participant

Hi shania,
The way of Christ is the way of safety.
Some will find themselves unexpectedly saved[mt25][ by the mercy of God.
But we are urged to enter the REST OF GOD [7th day millenial kingdom of Christ]

Heb4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

March 15, 2008 at 12:08 am#83952