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Being involved in this site for some time now, I have come to the conclusion that no two people can agree completely on what is required for salvation. Many do agree on some things, but it seems that NO ONE agrees 100% with anyone else.
Is this so difficult? Is our God a God of confusion? How can anyone be sure of salvation if the method of getting there is in such array.
Why does not scripture just say “here are the rules, do them and be saved”. Simple as that.
What is your answer? Will all be lost, or will all be saved? Surely with such a vast difference in opinion, each going their own way, is it fair that some may hit it on the head and do the right things, while others, believers as well, miss the mark and are lost.
Is there any easy answer to this? Any opinions out there that can answer unequivically what the solution to this confused system of beliefs will solve?
Any answers to this confusion?God Bless, Jerry.
Chosenone………..I believe we are all seeking to understand things better, but none of us has (ALL) the right answers to everything, and maybe GOD is allowing this in order that without Jesus we can not reach the full understanding we all desire. We are told we see in part as looking through an obscure glass. But none the less we are still seeking and knocking and asking. Maybe there will always be thing for us to come to understand for eternity we may alway be learning new thing. I do believe most all here have the fundamentals right , the things that really matter, that Jesus died for our sins and as a result we have a right standing with GOD and HIS GRACE (Gods influencing on the heart) is Working to save Us. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (chosenone @ July 07 2010,01:59) Being involved in this site for some time now, I have come to the conclusion that no two people can agree completely on what is required for salvation. Many do agree on some things, but it seems that NO ONE agrees 100% with anyone else.
Is this so difficult? Is our God a God of confusion? How can anyone be sure of salvation if the method of getting there is in such array.
Why does not scripture just say “here are the rules, do them and be saved”. Simple as that.
What is your answer? Will all be lost, or will all be saved? Surely with such a vast difference in opinion, each going their own way, is it fair that some may hit it on the head and do the right things, while others, believers as well, miss the mark and are lost.
Is there any easy answer to this? Any opinions out there that can answer unequivically what the solution to this confused system of beliefs will solve?
Any answers to this confusion?God Bless, Jerry.
The two requirements for salvation in our day and time is found in Romans 10:9,10. “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God hath raise him from the dead thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”Notice it does not saying anything about good works, or going to church or confessing your sins or accepting Christ as your savior.
We confess with our mouth the savior from sin, the Lord Jesus.
Now, this is the basic salvation. Ephesians 2:8,9 states that it is a gift of God, it is not of works, but is by grace, God's unmeritted divine favor. However, Ephesians 2:10 tells us immediately after telling that salvation is by grace that, now that we have salvation, we are now capable to do the good works that God has lined up for us to do.
This improves our lot in life, because now we do more that just receive salvation, we now live it.
The basic part of salvation is God given. We need salvation to enter into God's kingdom. But we can do more than just receive the gift of salvation we can use it.
Let's us look at an incident during Jesus Christ's earthly ministry that will help me to illustrate a point. Take the incident of the ten lepers who Jesus Christ healed. Ten were healed or say, saved from leprosy. One, only one, of the ten lepers came back and thanked Jesus Christ for healing him. Jesus Christ did more for this one man than simply heal him of leprosy. The word says that this man was made whole. That is, everything else that might have been physically wrong with him was healed as well. Like wise, the emotional hurts of being ostracized by society were healed. That man was made whole. Likewise, as we continue in truth that applies to us after the day of Pentecost.
Again, an example from Jesus Christ's ministry. Likewise as we continue in the word, John 8:31,32 not only are we saved, but as we continue in the truth, we will know the truth and the truth that we are learning sets us free. Other areas that need healing or improvement can be made whole as we continue in the word after salvation.
Starting in Romans 12, we can see that we can improve our lives beyond the basic act of becoming saved. We can be transformed by the renewing of our minds, verse 2. We can perform our godly functions, we can learn to love without hypocrisy, we can learn to abhor evil and cleave to the good. Etc.. all these things earn us eternal rewards as we carry them out, perfectly? no, faithfully. We all fall short at times, but that does not affect our salvation, that was a gift from God, and He will never take that back. You are His and He is ours. Our works can and do improve our relationship with God, and improves the quality of our lives here on earth and for all eternity.
The key to salvation is Romans 10:9,10. Do it, your saved, ignore it, you are not. It is that simple.
Romans 5:9 states that one of the benefits of this salvation is that we are saved from the wrath to come.
Not all will choose to be saved. But salvation has been made available to all. Only two things are required. Two simple things. Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. It can't get any simpler. What God did for us through the works of Jesus Christ made it that simple. That is, before the accomplished works of Jesus Christ, salvation was dependent on works, ie, doing the law, but doing it believingly. Now it is a gift of God.
What a Lord God! What a lord Jesus Christ!
Hi B,
No the book of Romans was written to the saved.
read chapter 1.Paul in the tenth chapter was encouraging those who had been reborn of the Spirit to walk in the Spirit.
If we have received the Spirit we must let the Spirit control our lives[gal5.25]To teach another way into the kingdom than the doorway of Christ offered in Acts 2 and jn 10 is unwise.
Hi Gene, You said…
Quote I do believe most all here have the fundamentals right , the things that really matter, that Jesus died for our sins and as a result we have a right standing with GOD and HIS GRACE (Gods influencing on the heart) is Working to save Us. IMO
I believe you have it right, “all is of God”.God Bless, Jerry.
Hi barley,
I agree with much of your post. At the end of your post you say…Quote Not all will choose to be saved. But salvation has been made available to all. Only two things are required. Two simple things. Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. It can't get any simpler. What God did for us through the works of Jesus Christ made it that simple. That is, before the accomplished works of Jesus Christ, salvation was dependent on works, ie, doing the law, but doing it believingly. Now it is a gift of God. What a Lord God! What a lord Jesus Christ!
In my opinion, you put too much on what we must do. I believe that it is ALL of God, nothing we do, but “His achievement are we” (Eph.2:10).
A very good post though, keep up the good work.Keep away from those that offer a “one eternal gospel for all', this is non-biblical. and false teaching.
God Bless, Jerry.
Acts 16:30-32 (New International Version)
30He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.
Passage Revelation 3:20:20'Behold, I stand (A)at the door and (B)knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, ÂI will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
Passage Ephesians 2:8-9:
8For (A)by grace you have been saved (B)through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is Âthe gift of God;
9(D)not as a result of works, so that (E)no one may boast.
ITS PRETTY SIMPLE……BELIEVE WITH ALL YOUR HEART THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD AND ACCEPT IS GIFT OF UNCONDITIONAL GRACE.
Good question Chosenone, I wonder that too.
Good answer Gene
Good post Barley but can it really be as easy as you and Malysc say? So I can say Jesus is Lord, then believe God raised him from the dead, and im saved? Even if I then go on to commit horrible crimes, etc etc, never giving another thought to God not another prayer, nothing.
It cant be that easy.
Many will say 'Lord Lord' but He never knew them. They are workers of lawlessness?
Quote (karmarie @ July 08 2010,23:47) Good question Chosenone, I wonder that too. Good answer Gene
Good post Barley but can it really be as easy as you and Malysc say? So I can say Jesus is Lord, then believe God raised him from the dead, and im saved? Even if I then go on to commit horrible crimes, etc etc, never giving another thought to God not another prayer, nothing.
It cant be that easy.
Many will say 'Lord Lord' but He never knew them. They are workers of lawlessness?
Hi Karmarie,Heb.6:6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb.10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for
of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgKarmarie………….It is that simple, But what you left out is that you must believe (FROM the HEART) GOD did Raise Jesus from the Grave. Many say this but do the (TRULY) believe from the HEART?> The Key is to believe from the Heart. Does the reality of God raising Jesus from the dead dwell in you Heart?. Saying it and truly believing it are two different things. IMO
If GOD the Father has put this in you Heart to believe then YOU (ARE) Saved and (Nothing) can separate you from GOD, Not you or anyone else can. Because greater is he that is in you then he that is in the earth , and that includes us all who are in the earth.
Many profess GOD but deny the Power there of. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Looking at the various reasons given for obtaining salvation, it is a wonder anyone will be saved. I have yet to see any two perons who agree on what is required for salvation. Is our God a God of confusion?
I personally brlieve that God, our “Father,” will save everyone, including Judas, and satan himself. I know this will result in a wave of protest from many on this site. I will be subjected to much critizism, and may even be barred fron this site.
I have purposely neglected to refer to any scripture to support my views, but will do so if allowed to to remain on this site.
To give a quick review of what I believe to be Gods plan of salvation of all, I will say that Gods plan for creation is likened to a play. God is the author, and His creation is the stage, He is “operating ALL in accord of the cousel of His will” (Eph.1:110). He has 'created evil', He has 'made the wicked', and He will perfect all mankind through suffering. Those that are 'wicked' have a part to play in His creation. Those that do evil, are there for a purpose, all in accord with Gods will. (Eph.1:11).
Gods will is to be “All in all” (1Cor.15:28), and I'm sure He will accomplish just that.
I will awaite the onslot that is sure to come, but this is my opinion.God Bless you all, Jerry.
To all,
What did Jesus teach the man who come to him and asked. Did he not teach him that in order to be saved he must actually practice in perfection the law of love your neighbor as God intends you to? Jesus said that in terms the man could understand by instructing him to give away all his money to the poor. He gave that command to the man knowing that if the man hungered and thirsted for righteousness he would in compassion for those in need give up all his financial happiness and security.
We must beware that we do not put our happiness and security in the things of this world but instead trust in God to do what is right no matter what he chooses to do. This is possible only if we obey all the teachings of Jesus for all things are possible through God.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (kerwin @ July 10 2010,01:06) To all, What did Jesus teach the man who come to him and asked. Did he not teach him that in order to be saved he must actually practice in perfection the law of love your neighbor as God intends you to? Jesus said that in terms the man could understand by instructing him to give away all his money to the poor. He gave that command to the man knowing that if the man hungered and thirsted for righteousness he would in compassion for those in need give up all his financial happiness and security.
We must beware that we do not put our happiness and security in the things of this world but instead trust in God to do what is right no matter what he chooses to do. This is possible only if we obey all the teachings of Jesus for all things are possible through God.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
KerwinAmen ,to your comment very true.
Pierre
Hi kerwin.
Thanks for your reply. You say…Quote What did Jesus teach the man who come to him and asked. Did he not teach him that in order to be saved he must actually practice in perfection the law of love your neighbor as God intends you to?
You must understand that Jesus was “commissioned” to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel”. His commission was to them, and to them only. In that era, the gentiles had no part with God, see Eph.12:11-12… 11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh — who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands —
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
To sum up, His (Jesus) message was not for the 'nations', it was for Israel, under the 'old covenant', still under the “law”. A much different means of entering the “kingdom”, then now, under the covenant of “the grace of God”, that we gentiles and believing Jews are now under.Quote We must beware that we do not put our happiness and security in the things of this world but instead trust in God to do what is right no matter what he chooses to do. This is possible only if we obey all the teachings of Jesus for all things are possible through God.
So you see that your statement… “This is possible only if we obey all the teachings of Jesus for all things are possible through God”, is not applicable. The covenant given to Israel is completely different to the present covenant in effect now.
Because the their rejection of Jesus, their promised Messiah, God has divorsed His “chosen people” (Israel) and turned to the “nations”, See Acts.13:46… 46 Being bold, both Paul and Barnabas, say, “To you (Israel) first was it necessary that the word of God be spoken. Yet, since, in fact, you are thrusting it away, and are judging yourselves not worthy of eonian life, lo! we are turning to the nations.This understanding of scripture is what Paul meant when he said in 2.Tim.2:15… Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth.
God Bless, Jerry.
Jerry,
What you believe and what scripture teaches are plainly two different things and yet you choose to believe what is not true.
You are correct that Jesus himself was only sent to the Hebrew people but even then he taught the Samaritan woman by the well and told her that he had water that would give her eternal life. You should realize that Samaritans are not Jews but rather Gentiles that adopted the Law and practice the Samaritanism religion. I suppose their religion could be considered a heretical Jewish faith but if you call Jews because of that then you would have to call any Christian a Jew as well.
Was Jesus in error when he did that?
If you understood prophecy you would God spoke of the time of Jesus and stated quite clearly that his Word would go out from Jerusalem. Though Jesus was sent only to the Jews his words were not reserved for the Jews but were expanded to all nations when the new covenant was established in fulfillment of those prophecies. The question then becomes do you believe.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
kerwin.
You sayQuote What you believe and what scripture teaches are plainly two different things and yet you choose to believe what is not true. Your statement would be more truthful if you would give an example of what you think I believe, and quote scripture explaining your reasons. Making such a statement only means your opinion, not the truth. I could say exactly the same words to you, would that make any sense to you?
God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2010,15:48) Hi B,
No the book of Romans was written to the saved.
read chapter 1.Paul in the tenth chapter was encouraging those who had been reborn of the Spirit to walk in the Spirit.
If we have received the Spirit we must let the Spirit control our lives[gal5.25]To teach another way into the kingdom than the doorway of Christ offered in Acts 2 and jn 10 is unwise.
You bring up a most interesting point. One that many people have not been aware of. That is that different books and even passages are not all addressed to the same group of peoples. This knowledge can help us tremendously when some apparent contradictions come up. Why does one passage say one thing and another seems to contradict it? One reason is that one passage may have been written specifically to one group of people and the other to another group of people, or for that matter to one individual rather than another individual. Joseph revealing the significance of the baker's dream vs. the butler's dream is one of many examples. God told Moses to lead the children of Israel out of Egypt, he did not tell you or me. God told Israel that a redeemer is coming, He tells us that the redeemer came, did what was required of him on earth, and then was ascended to God's own right hand. These are very clear and obvious examples. There are passages that are more subtle, but important as well.
Indeed the book of Romans was written to the saved, but it does include portions that address the needs of the unsaved. Namely, the Judeans and Gentiles. In Romans 9 Paul, by revelation, expresses his concerns for Israel. In verse 4 he makes it clear who he is concerned about. In verse 24, he brings in the subject of the Gentiles. Romans 10:1 is very telling. “Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. Paul is informing his brethren, that Israel needs to be saved. And that he prays and desires that they be saved. Verse 2, they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. In verse 9 and 10, we are given the knowledge of the solution for Israel and the Gentiles, that is, how to get saved. Paul continues till chapter 12 to share his heart regarding Israel and the Gentiles. Then, of course, he begins with the saved again.
Thanks for bringing up such an important point.
Quote (barley @ July 11 2010,12:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2010,15:48) Hi B,
No the book of Romans was written to the saved.
read chapter 1.Paul in the tenth chapter was encouraging those who had been reborn of the Spirit to walk in the Spirit.
If we have received the Spirit we must let the Spirit control our lives[gal5.25]To teach another way into the kingdom than the doorway of Christ offered in Acts 2 and jn 10 is unwise.
You bring up a most interesting point. One that many people have not been aware of. That is that different books and even passages are not all addressed to the same group of peoples. This knowledge can help us tremendously when some apparent contradictions come up. Why does one passage say one thing and another seems to contradict it? One reason is that one passage may have been written specifically to one group of people and the other to another group of people, or for that matter to one individual rather than another individual. Joseph revealing the significance of the baker's dream vs. the butler's dream is one of many examples. God told Moses to lead the children of Israel out of Egypt, he did not tell you or me. God told Israel that a redeemer is coming, He tells us that the redeemer came, did what was required of him on earth, and then was ascended to God's own right hand. These are very clear and obvious examples. There are passages that are more subtle, but important as well.
Indeed the book of Romans was written to the saved, but it does include portions that address the needs of the unsaved. Namely, the Judeans and Gentiles. In Romans 9 Paul, by revelation, expresses his concerns for Israel. In verse 4 he makes it clear who he is concerned about. In verse 24, he brings in the subject of the Gentiles. Romans 10:1 is very telling. “Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. Paul is informing his brethren, that Israel needs to be saved. And that he prays and desires that they be saved. Verse 2, they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. In verse 9 and 10, we are given the knowledge of the solution for Israel and the Gentiles, that is, how to get saved. Paul continues till chapter 12 to share his heart regarding Israel and the Gentiles. Then, of course, he begins with the saved again.
Thanks for bringing up such an important point.
Hi Barley and Nick, if I understand right , Paul when speaking of “Isreal” is speaking of the “New Isreal” Isreal became all who followed Christ, it was no longer a nation or race. It was Jews and Gentiles, together. Believers in Christ, which is why “all Isreal will be saved”
Hi karmarie.
Quote Hi Barley and Nick, if I understand right , Paul when speaking of “Isreal” is speaking of the “New Isreal” Isreal became all who followed Christ, it was no longer a nation or race. It was Jews and Gentiles, together. Believers in Christ, which is why “all Isreal will be saved” It seems this is a popular teaching among many denomonations, but I don't believe there is any scripture that support this view. If you have scripture that refers to that would you please show it?
Thank you.Blessings, Jerry.
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