Sahidic Coptic translation of John 1:1

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  • #355812
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,10:22)
    Marty

    Jn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? KJV

    Jn 6:70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” NIV

    what then does it mean “is a devil” ???

    and which of the two version is the true one  ,or more accurate one ???


    Hi Pierre:

    I don't know why I should answer anything that you ask me since you already have all of the answers, but both scriptures say the same thing but in a slightly different way.

    Judas obeyed the temptation of the devil to betray Jesus, and this is what the scriptures state:

    Quote
    1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    1Jo 3:10 ¶ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #355813
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,10:25)
    marty

    Quote
    I indicated that I agreed with Ed that the wrangling done relative to John 1 is based on the presumption that “The Word” is Jesus as a sentient person.

    what is an sentient person ???  is their any person in history that was /his an sentient person ???


    Hi Pierre:

    The first Adam was made “a living soul”, having a mind, a will, and emotions. This is what I mean by “a sentient person”.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #355815
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2013,23:25)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,10:22)
    Marty

    Jn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? KJV

    Jn 6:70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” NIV

    what then does it mean “is a devil” ???

    and which of the two version is the true one  ,or more accurate one ???


    Hi Pierre:

    I don't know why I should answer anything that you ask me since you already have all of the answers, but both scriptures say the same thing but in a slightly different way.

    Judas obeyed the temptation of the devil to betray Jesus, and this is what the scriptures state:

    Quote
    1Jo 3:9   Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.  
    1Jo 3:10 ¶ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    marty

    thanks, so the NIV or the KJV are just the same ,

    as for your scriptures you quote it would be more like :the ones that obey and the one that do NOT obey ,in them can be seen to whom they belong right ???

    #355816
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2013,23:32)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,10:25)
    marty

    Quote
    I indicated that I agreed with Ed that the wrangling done relative to John 1 is based on the presumption that “The Word” is Jesus as a sentient person.

    what is an sentient person ???  is their any person in history that was /his an sentient person ???


    Hi Pierre:

    The first Adam was made “a living soul”, having a mind, a will, and emotions.  This is what I mean by “a sentient person”.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    so you and I are sentient persons ,and if that is true then all humankind are sentient persons right ???

    #355818
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2013,05:27)

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2013,23:32)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,10:25)
    marty

    Quote
    I indicated that I agreed with Ed that the wrangling done relative to John 1 is based on the presumption that “The Word” is Jesus as a sentient person.

    what is an sentient person ???  is their any person in history that was /his an sentient person ???


    Hi Pierre:

    The first Adam was made “a living soul”, having a mind, a will, and emotions.  This is what I mean by “a sentient person”.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    so you and I are sentient persons ,and if that is true then all humankind are sentient persons right ???


    That is correct.

    #355820
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2013,05:25)

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2013,23:25)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,10:22)
    Marty

    Jn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? KJV

    Jn 6:70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” NIV

    what then does it mean “is a devil” ???

    and which of the two version is the true one  ,or more accurate one ???


    Hi Pierre:

    I don't know why I should answer anything that you ask me since you already have all of the answers, but both scriptures say the same thing but in a slightly different way.

    Judas obeyed the temptation of the devil to betray Jesus, and this is what the scriptures state:

    Quote
    1Jo 3:9   Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.  
    1Jo 3:10 ¶ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    marty

    thanks, so the NIV or the KJV are just the same ,

    as for your scriptures you quote it would be more like :the ones that obey and the one that do NOT obey ,in them can be seen to whom they belong right ???


    If someone obeys the devil, they children of the devil, or can be said to be a devil, as Judas was since he obeyed the devil in betraying Jesus.

    And yes, on this particular scripture that you quoted, both translations say the same thing in a slightly different manner.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #355830
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 22 2013,00:37)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2013,05:27)

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2013,23:32)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,10:25)
    marty

    Quote
    I indicated that I agreed with Ed that the wrangling done relative to John 1 is based on the presumption that “The Word” is Jesus as a sentient person.

    what is an sentient person ???  is their any person in history that was /his an sentient person ???


    Hi Pierre:

    The first Adam was made “a living soul”, having a mind, a will, and emotions.  This is what I mean by “a sentient person”.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    so you and I are sentient persons ,and if that is true then all humankind are sentient persons right ???


    That is correct.


    Marty

    so using the word sentient is an another way to say a human being ,right ???

    #355838
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2013,11:52)

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2013,02:04)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2013,15:08)
    So TWO gods, then?  One of whom was WITH the other?


    You won't get a straight answer here Mike, but the answer is clearly yes.

    If the Word is God and the Word was WITH God, then God was WITH God which makes two Gods.


    Yeah, the last time I checked, 1+1 still equaled 2.


    Check.

    I just googled it and it is 2.

    #355839
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2013,11:17)
    It was Jesus who declared the Father, and it was Jesus who is the “Only Begotten Son”,


    So then it was Jesus who became flesh and dwelt on earth with the glory of the only begotten Son of God?

    After all, like you just said, nobody else ever became flesh and dwelt on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son, right?

    #355840
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2013,17:12)
    Hi t8:

    I indicated that I agreed with Ed that the wrangling done relative to John 1 is based on the presumption that “The Word” is Jesus as a sentient person.


    But Marty,

    It isn't US who do any “wrangling”.  

    We read that the Word was with God in the beginning.  And then we read that Jesus had glory alongside his God before the world began.

    We read that all things were made through the Word.  And then we read that all things were made through Jesus.

    We read that the Word was light shining in the darkness.  Then we read that Jesus is the light of the world.

    We read that John the Baptist came to testify about the Word.  And then we read that John the Baptist was sent to testify about none other than Jesus.

    We read that those who believe in the name of the Word are given the right to become children of God.  Then we read that there is only one name under heaven by which we can be saved and become children of God……. the name Jesus.

    We read that the Word became flesh, and when he did, he dwelt on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.  Then we read that Jesus is the only one who ever dwelt on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son – because he is the only one who ever was God's only begotten Son.

    We read from the author of John 1 that the Word of life was “seen with our eyes, and touched by our hands”.  We read these same things about Jesus.

    We read from that same author that the rider of the white horse is called “The Word of God”.  And we know from the fiery eyes and sword coming out of that rider's mouth that this “Word” is none other than Jesus.

    Marty, there isn't one thing said about the Word in John 1, 1 John 1, or Revelation 19 that isn't also said elsewhere in scripture about Jesus.

    So it is more accurate to say that the “wrangling” done over John 1:1 is done by those who have a personal wish for Jesus to have been nothing more than a regular old human being like the rest of us.

    As for us, we are simply believing the scriptures that say things about “the Word” in certain verses, and then say those exact same things about “Jesus” in other verses.

    #355857
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2013,17:33)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2013,11:52)

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2013,02:04)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2013,15:08)
    So TWO gods, then?  One of whom was WITH the other?


    You won't get a straight answer here Mike, but the answer is clearly yes.

    If the Word is God and the Word was WITH God, then God was WITH God which makes two Gods.


    Yeah, the last time I checked, 1+1 still equaled 2.


    Check.

    I just googled it and it is 2.


    Depends on the identity of the addends and the sum of course.
    1 man + 1 woman = 1 couple
    Here we see that 1 + 1 = 1
    or
    1 left sock + 1 right sock = 1 pair of socks
    Again…1 + 1 = 1

    So, 1 + 1 does not always equal 2

    :p

    #355864
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2013,07:19)

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2013,17:33)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2013,11:52)

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2013,02:04)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2013,15:08)
    So TWO gods, then?  One of whom was WITH the other?


    You won't get a straight answer here Mike, but the answer is clearly yes.

    If the Word is God and the Word was WITH God, then God was WITH God which makes two Gods.


    Yeah, the last time I checked, 1+1 still equaled 2.


    Check.

    I just googled it and it is 2.


    Depends on the identity of the addends and the sum of course.
    1 man + 1 woman = 1 couple
    Here we see that 1 + 1 = 1
    or
    1 left sock + 1 right sock = 1 pair of socks
    Again…1 + 1 = 1

    So, 1 + 1 does not always equal 2

    :p


    Kathi

    Quote
    Depends on the identity of the addends and the sum of course.
    1 man + 1 woman = 1 couple
    Here we see that 1 + 1 = 1

    you got that wrong ,let see if I can be of any help ?

    1 man + 1 women = 1 couple + one child = 2

    this would be the full circle no ???

    #355865
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2013,08:59)

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 22 2013,00:37)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2013,05:27)

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2013,23:32)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,10:25)
    marty

    Quote
    I indicated that I agreed with Ed that the wrangling done relative to John 1 is based on the presumption that “The Word” is Jesus as a sentient person.

    what is an sentient person ???  is their any person in history that was /his an sentient person ???


    Hi Pierre:

    The first Adam was made “a living soul”, having a mind, a will, and emotions.  This is what I mean by “a sentient person”.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    so you and I are sentient persons ,and if that is true then all humankind are sentient persons right ???


    That is correct.


    Marty

    so using the word sentient is an another way to say a human being ,right ???


    No, God and angels are sentient persons.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #355866
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 22 2013,07:52)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2013,08:59)

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 22 2013,00:37)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2013,05:27)

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2013,23:32)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,10:25)
    marty

    Quote
    I indicated that I agreed with Ed that the wrangling done relative to John 1 is based on the presumption that “The Word” is Jesus as a sentient person.

    what is an sentient person ???  is their any person in history that was /his an sentient person ???


    Hi Pierre:

    The first Adam was made “a living soul”, having a mind, a will, and emotions.  This is what I mean by “a sentient person”.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    so you and I are sentient persons ,and if that is true then all humankind are sentient persons right ???


    That is correct.


    Marty

    so using the word sentient is an another way to say a human being ,right ???


    No, God and angels are sentient persons.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    I am all screwed up now ;let see if I understand you now, so men are no longer sentients ??? yes or no

    are only angels and God sentient beings ??? yes or NO

    #355867
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2013,12:55)

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 22 2013,07:52)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2013,08:59)

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 22 2013,00:37)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2013,05:27)

    Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2013,23:32)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,10:25)
    marty

    Quote
    I indicated that I agreed with Ed that the wrangling done relative to John 1 is based on the presumption that “The Word” is Jesus as a sentient person.

    what is an sentient person ???  is their any person in history that was /his an sentient person ???


    Hi Pierre:

    The first Adam was made “a living soul”, having a mind, a will, and emotions.  This is what I mean by “a sentient person”.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    so you and I are sentient persons ,and if that is true then all humankind are sentient persons right ???


    That is correct.


    Marty

    so using the word sentient is an another way to say a human being ,right ???


    No, God and angels are sentient persons.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    I am all screwed up now ;let see if I understand you now, so men are no longer sentients ??? yes or no

    are only angels and God sentient beings ??? yes or NO


    Pierre:

    I said that in addition to human beings, God, and angels are sentient persons.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #355868
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2013,20:08)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 19 2013,00:08)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 18 2013,11:17)
    Jesus is the Son of Jehovah of hosts.


    Where specifically does it say this in the scripture since you imply that it is a scriptural claim?


    Isaiah 9
    6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

    Is Jehovah of hosts the child who is to be born?  Or the one whose zeal will accomplish all these things?

    Jeremiah 30
    8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:

    9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

    Is Jehovah of hosts David?  Or the one who will raise up their king David for them?

    Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 19 2013,00:08)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 18 2013,11:17)
    Has anyone who likes the translation “and the Word was God” been able to figure out how the one being known to us as “God” could possibly have been WITH the one being known to us as “God” in the beginning?


    Jehovah God is with Jehovah of Host.
    Simple.


    So TWO gods, then?  One of whom was WITH the other?


    Mike,
    you asked:

    Quote
    Is Jehovah of hosts the child who is to be born? Or the one whose zeal will accomplish all these things?

    The Son who is to be born is the Son of Man (the Son of God already existed and became also the Son of Man). The Jehovah of hosts is probably the Son of God. The zeal of the Son of God, the Word (the Jehovah of hosts), accomplishes the order and establishes the Son of Man's government with judgment and with justice…

    Quote
    Is Jehovah of hosts David? Or the one who will raise up their king David for them?

    The Son of God is possibly Jehovah of hosts. 'David, their king' is probably referring to the Messiah, the Son of Man.

    #355869
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,20:51)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2013,07:19)

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2013,17:33)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2013,11:52)

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2013,02:04)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2013,15:08)
    So TWO gods, then?  One of whom was WITH the other?


    You won't get a straight answer here Mike, but the answer is clearly yes.

    If the Word is God and the Word was WITH God, then God was WITH God which makes two Gods.


    Yeah, the last time I checked, 1+1 still equaled 2.


    Check.

    I just googled it and it is 2.


    Depends on the identity of the addends and the sum of course.
    1 man + 1 woman = 1 couple
    Here we see that 1 + 1 = 1
    or
    1 left sock + 1 right sock = 1 pair of socks
    Again…1 + 1 = 1

    So, 1 + 1 does not always equal 2

    :p


    Kathi

    Quote
    Depends on the identity of the addends and the sum of course.
    1 man + 1 woman = 1 couple
    Here we see that 1 + 1 = 1

    you got that wrong ,let see if I can be of any help ?

    1 man + 1 women = 1 couple + one child = 2

    this would be the full circle no ???


    1 Couple + 1 child = 1 family

    1 + 1 = 1

    #355874
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2013,11:23)
    If Judas can be a devil and yet there is one who is the Devil (who is Satan), then others can be gods/theos without infringing on the fact that there is one God.

    Likewise we are taught that our faith accepts one Spirit. Yet angels who are higher than us for now are ministering spirits.

    One faith, one baptism, one Spirit. This does not mean that we do not believe in angels.

    Likewise One God and Father of all does not lead us to deny that others are legitimately called theos. And one Father does not mean that we deny Abraham either.

    Anyone who does not hear what I am saying here is blind to scripture deaf to the word because all I am doing is showing you scripture. If you refuse it, it is not me you reject, but the one who inspired scripture.


    Hi t8:

    Anyone or anything can be a god to someone, and satan is said to be “the god of this world”, and judges are called gods by God and God says to the Son:

    Quote
    Hbr 1:8   But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.  
    Hbr 1:9   Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    And Jesus is according to the scriptures, “in the form of God” (Phil 2) and He is the “express image of God's person”(Heb 1), and so, He is “god” in that through his life we have seen God's character, and he is “in the form of god” as God's representative, all power over heaven and earth has been given unto him, and God's representative as the head of the church”, but he is a man, and not “a god”.

    As a child of God, are you “a god” because you are a partaker of his divine nature?  I am not “a god”.

    And this is what the scripture states:

    Quote
    1Cr 8:5   For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)  

    1Cr 8:6   But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

    (And so, yes “as there are gods many, and lords many”, that is what the scripture states, but for a Christian, for me, “there is but One God”, the Father.)

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #355877
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Marty,
    Jesus is OUR God and Savior.

    2 Peter 1:1
    From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours.

    #355878
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2013,08:03)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 21 2013,20:51)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2013,07:19)

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2013,17:33)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2013,11:52)

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2013,02:04)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2013,15:08)
    So TWO gods, then?  One of whom was WITH the other?


    You won't get a straight answer here Mike, but the answer is clearly yes.

    If the Word is God and the Word was WITH God, then God was WITH God which makes two Gods.


    Yeah, the last time I checked, 1+1 still equaled 2.


    Check.

    I just googled it and it is 2.


    Depends on the identity of the addends and the sum of course.
    1 man + 1 woman = 1 couple
    Here we see that 1 + 1 = 1
    or
    1 left sock + 1 right sock = 1 pair of socks
    Again…1 + 1 = 1

    So, 1 + 1 does not always equal 2

    :p


    Kathi

    Quote
    Depends on the identity of the addends and the sum of course.
    1 man + 1 woman = 1 couple
    Here we see that 1 + 1 = 1

    you got that wrong ,let see if I can be of any help ?

    1 man + 1 women = 1 couple + one child = 2

    this would be the full circle no ???


    1 Couple + 1 child = 1 family

    1 + 1 = 1


    Kathi

    Why are changing the single unit to a composed unit ???,

    Your concept is not a true one :but just names of words

    Men is 1 + 1 women + 1 child = 1 family unit But all family unit do not only compost it self with 3 singles could be 100 see 1000' even more,

    And this is not today's family :D

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