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Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:16) To all, Galatians 3:7
King James Version (KJV)7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
K
This is allegorically speaking that it is by the similitude of Abraham true faith in God that we become the true offspring of Abraham ,And so accomplish what God as said to Abraham that all the nations will be blessed through him
Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2013,21:31) Mike and T8, I posted this to terraricca previously.
Quote John 8:39
King James Version (KJV)39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Jesus' children are his because they do the works he does. The are his brothers because they, like him, do the works of God.
According to the definition Jesus uses in verse 39 are his obedient students his children?
To all,It could mean that those that do the works Abraham did are his children, even if the are not the seed of his flesh.
Those that are the children of his flesh but who do not do his works are the children of the devil.
For example:
If ye were Jesus' children, ye would do the works of Jesus.
or
If ye were Jehovah's children, ye would do the works of Jehovah.
Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,01:14) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:00) To all, Galatians 4:19
King James Version (KJV)19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
1 John 2:1
King James Version (KJV)2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
KIt seems you do not understand those scriptures ,if you would ,you would not have used them to justifie or answer our question,
To all,Can Jesus also say “my little children” when he addresses his brethren in the church or is it only John and Paul that do so.
Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,03:01) Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,01:14) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:00) To all, Galatians 4:19
King James Version (KJV)19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
1 John 2:1
King James Version (KJV)2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
KIt seems you do not understand those scriptures ,if you would ,you would not have used them to justifie or answer our question,
To all,Can Jesus also say “my little children” when he addresses his brethren in the church or is it only John and Paul that do so.
KPaul and John were talking about the children of God what were given to them as the teacher to them ,
you still do not understand the profound meaning of those things
Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2013,07:07) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 31 2013,14:17) David is a root and branch of Jesse.
Show me in scripture that David is a root of Jesse. In fact, show me from ANY WRITING that a son is the “root OF” his own father.
Mike,Do you understand the way of speech where you call a family group by the name of its patriarch?
Like calling members of the tribe of Benjamin “Benjamin”?Or calling the entire group of Jacob's offspring “Israel”?
Yes, I understand that. Will you now address my question in a direct manner?
Also, what point are you trying to prove by insisting that Jesus has children?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 03 2013,06:13) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2013,07:07) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 31 2013,14:17) David is a root and branch of Jesse.
Show me in scripture that David is a root of Jesse. In fact, show me from ANY WRITING that a son is the “root OF” his own father.
Mike,Do you understand the way of speech where you call a family group by the name of its patriarch?
Like calling members of the tribe of Benjamin “Benjamin”?Or calling the entire group of Jacob's offspring “Israel”?
Yes, I understand that. Will you now address my question in a direct manner?
Also, what point are you trying to prove by insisting that Jesus has children?
Mike,Jesse is Jesse's offspring as in stump of Jesse's offspring. Jesus is the branch of Jesse's offspring. He is a branch among Jesse's offspring. A branch that is fruitful, which is to say a root.
David is a branch among Jesse's children and also a root for he sired children for the entire group of Jesse' offspring.
You, yourself had the information to answer your own question.
Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,03:25) Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,03:01) Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,01:14) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:00) To all, Galatians 4:19
King James Version (KJV)19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
1 John 2:1
King James Version (KJV)2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
KIt seems you do not understand those scriptures ,if you would ,you would not have used them to justifie or answer our question,
To all,Can Jesus also say “my little children” when he addresses his brethren in the church or is it only John and Paul that do so.
KPaul and John were talking about the children of God what were given to them as the teacher to them ,
you still do not understand the profound meaning of those things
T,So Jesus can call the children of God his own little children?
Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,01:17) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:16) To all, Galatians 3:7
King James Version (KJV)7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
K
This is allegorically speaking that it is by the similitude of Abraham true faith in God that we become the true offspring of Abraham ,And so accomplish what God as said to Abraham that all the nations will be blessed through him
T,So by the similitude of Jesus' faith those that believe are the true seed of Jesus.
Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,01:07) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:12) To all, Isaiah 53:10
King James Version (KJV)10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
K
This is talking about Jesus ,
T,Yes it is:
My point is
Quote he shall see his seed, Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,10:31) Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,01:17) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:16) To all, Galatians 3:7
King James Version (KJV)7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
K
This is allegorically speaking that it is by the similitude of Abraham true faith in God that we become the true offspring of Abraham ,And so accomplish what God as said to Abraham that all the nations will be blessed through him
T,So by the similitude of Jesus' faith those that believe are the true seed of Jesus.
Kthe reason for things not work with Christ is because Christ is reality Abraham was the shadow of things to come ,
we are all God's children but some are rebelling and some are looking for reconciliation ,and Christ is the way if their ever were any so called children of Christ it would have been his disciples (11) +1 (Paul) but he called not children BUT BROTHERS WHY IS THAT
Now we all are the seeds of the apostles ,and of the prophets
because it is through their message we now have believed,we are the treasure,store in heaven under their name ,
Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,10:33) Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,01:07) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:12) To all, Isaiah 53:10
King James Version (KJV)10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
K
This is talking about Jesus ,
T,Yes it is:
My point is
Quote he shall see his seed,
KIsa 53:10 Yet it was the LORD'S will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,seed or offspring are allegorical titles(those verses are prophecies) to those who Christ will teach to become his apostles and brothers ,(this was reality wen Christ called them brothers)
To all,
Matthew 9:2
King James Version (KJV)2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,11:25) To all, Matthew 9:2
King James Version (KJV)2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Kat my age I call many my son,
so that person that Jesus called son could be very young,and so not knowing his name just called him son
Jesus also called his disciples servants ,before calling them his brothers
Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,10:41) Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,10:31) Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,01:17) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:16) To all, Galatians 3:7
King James Version (KJV)7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
K
This is allegorically speaking that it is by the similitude of Abraham true faith in God that we become the true offspring of Abraham ,And so accomplish what God as said to Abraham that all the nations will be blessed through him
T,So by the similitude of Jesus' faith those that believe are the true seed of Jesus.
Kthe reason for things not work with Christ is because Christ is reality Abraham was the shadow of things to come ,
we are all God's children but some are rebelling and some are looking for reconciliation ,and Christ is the way if their ever were any so called children of Christ it would have been his disciples (11) +1 (Paul) but he called not children BUT BROTHERS WHY IS THAT
Now we all are the seeds of the apostles ,and of the prophets
because it is through their message we now have believed,we are the treasure,store in heaven under their name ,
T,Jesus was in his early 30's
Jesus children become children of the family of Jehovah through faith in the promise of the Christ.
That makes Jesus their father and Jehovah their grandfather.
We are speaking allegorically
Quote (kerwin @ April 04 2013,03:17) Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,10:41) Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,10:31) Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2013,01:17) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:16) To all, Galatians 3:7
King James Version (KJV)7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
K
This is allegorically speaking that it is by the similitude of Abraham true faith in God that we become the true offspring of Abraham ,And so accomplish what God as said to Abraham that all the nations will be blessed through him
T,So by the similitude of Jesus' faith those that believe are the true seed of Jesus.
Kthe reason for things not work with Christ is because Christ is reality Abraham was the shadow of things to come ,
we are all God's children but some are rebelling and some are looking for reconciliation ,and Christ is the way if their ever were any so called children of Christ it would have been his disciples (11) +1 (Paul) but he called not children BUT BROTHERS WHY IS THAT
Now we all are the seeds of the apostles ,and of the prophets
because it is through their message we now have believed,we are the treasure,store in heaven under their name ,
T,Jesus was in his early 30's
Jesus children become children of the family of Jehovah through faith in the promise of the Christ.
That makes Jesus their father and Jehovah their grandfather.
We are speaking allegorically
KI do not think so, first we are all children of God through Adam ,we all have been send away because our corruption ,Christ came and saved us from that corruption ,allegorically we can say many things ,but in truth ,we still God's children ,we still also gods,on earth ,we also are brothers ,either in heaven or on earth ,we also will become in our perfection sons of God again ,
So we have been all things in Christ and for Christ
Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,22:26) Mike, Jesse is Jesse's offspring as in stump of Jesse's offspring. Jesus is the branch of Jesse's offspring. He is a branch among Jesse's offspring. A branch that is fruitful, which is to say a root.
David is a branch among Jesse's children and also a root for he sired children for the entire group of Jesse' offspring.
You, yourself had the information to answer your own question.
Quote Jesse is Jesse's offspring as in stump of Jesse's offspring.
No Kerwin. “Jesse” is not the name of a tribe of Israel, and his offspring are therefore never called “Jesse” – as a collective group.Quote Jesus is the branch of Jesse's offspring. He is a branch among Jesse's offspring. A branch that is fruitful, which is to say a root.
Agreed. Jesus, according to his humanity, is a branch of Jesse, and therefore equally an offspring of David – just like he tell us.Quote David is a branch among Jesse's children and also a root for he sired children for the entire group of Jesse' offspring.
Ahhhh………… so NOW it becomes clear to me why it is so important for you that Jesus himself has children.
You are saying that David is a “branch” of Jesse's lineage (since David came AFTER the earliest members of Jesse's lineage), and David is also a “root” of Jesse's lineage (since those that came into being through David himself are still considered a part of “Jesse's lineage”).
And now I know why you want to call the collective group of Jesse's relatives by the name “Jesse”. That way you can say David is a root of Jesse (meaning he has brought forth branches of his own in the collective group of Jesse's relatives), and David is also a branch of Jesse (because David himself was brought forth as a branch from a different root in the collective group of Jesse's descendants).
Wow dude! It's like you're playing a game of chess, thinking more moves ahead than I can count!
Kudos for that, BUT………………..1. “Jesse” is never in scripture used as a name to describe “the collective group of Jesse's relatives”.
2. Only the twelve tribes are called by their patriarchs name as a collective group, and even then, they usually have the prefix “ben”. For example, the ones we call “Benjaminites” are called “bene Benjamin” (sons of Benjamin) in Hebrew.
3. Even according to your scenario, David would never be called “THE root of Jesse”. Those words would clearly imply that Jesse sprang forth FROM his own son, David.
4. Jesus most definitely calls himself “THE Root” of David.
5. Jesus has no children that the Bible speaks of.
I've got to hand it to you, Kerwin. You have put a LOT of time and thinking into this……….. all so you don't have to accept that Jesus lived as a spirit being long before he emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being.
Unfortunately for you, Rev 22:16 is far from being the only verse that speaks of the pre-existence of Jesus.
I hope that someday you learn to put away your own personal wishes for Jesus to have been exactly like us, and just accept the scriptures for what they teach.
Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,15:17) That makes Jesus their father and Jehovah their grandfather.
Kerwin, you have got to stop, man.So now Jesus is our father, and God is our grandfather? Where does your newly acquired “Holy Spirit Son of God” fit in? Wasn't it “he” who conceived Jesus?
And if that's the case, Jesus is our “father”, the “Holy Spirit Son of God” is our “grandfather”, and Jehovah is really our “great-grandfather”. Where will it end, Kerwin?
Pierre, read my last post to Kerwin so you can see what he's up to. Here is his thinking:
1. I REFUSE TO accept that Jesus pre-existed, so I MUST make “the Root of David” in Rev 22:16 mean something other than its most obvious meaning.
2. I know, I can consider “David” to be the name of the “collective group of the entire lineage of David” – that way Jesus can be both a “root” in that collective group, and an “offspring”.
3. But that won't work unless I can prove that Jesus has children of his own – so I MUST somehow show that Jesus has children.
Are you getting how his mind works?
Kerwin, are YOU one of Jesus' “children”? YES or NO?
Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:12) To all, Isaiah 53:10
King James Version (KJV)10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Mike,Jesus sees his seed.
Jesus has no seed of the flesh to see. Jesus does have seed of the spirit that do the works he does.
Jesus does the works of Jehovah.
We are taught that obedient students of Jesus do the works of Jehovah through faith in Jesus.
Quote (kerwin @ April 04 2013,12:35) Mike, Quote Kerwin, are YOU one of Jesus' “children”? YES or NO? I hope so but Jehovah is the Judge.
I was going to say that you must also then be a child of David as well. And then I was going to ask you how that can be since you are not Jewish. But then I remembered that God made Abraham the father of many nations – which made my would-be point null and void.
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