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After perusing bits of Mr. Weinland's End Times I have some comments:
“The beast (of Revelations ) spoken of here is a military power that emerges out of Europe for the seventh and final time in history.”
Since the time frame for this starts this Spring, I would say that while anything is possible, it is highly unlikely in the extreme:
The European Union does not command the national armies of it's members.
Europe has no functional combined army, the national armies while strong have little capacity for the kind of strategic movement that would be necessary for war outside of Europe proper.
The only nuclear power of such a union (here I exclude Great Britain and Russia) would be France and their capabilities very limited, especially strategically.
The best multinational command structure is NATO which is too tied to the USA/UK/Can to be used against them without warning.
The US Army is admitedly very small and overstreched, yet the US Navy is veritably supreme on the high seas and european naval capabilities are dwarfed by the Anglo-American fleets.
U.S. nuclear forces were designed with a cold war mutually assured destruction policies that would, despite any conceivable nuclear strike have the ability to strike back globally, thus destoying the offender's means to continue or perhaps to even exist.
Europe is, if anything, of a pacifist bent and it would have to make abrupt political, social, and organizational changes, as well as vast redirecting of budgets and production to the military to even contemplate such actions much less carry them out. With the end of the Soviet Union the European military capabilities have atrophied not increased.
Europe especially if you exclude the UK, has had trouble even organizing small efforts like Bosnia and Afghanistan. They have not fought in a major wars, (unlike USA), since the 1940s so have little recent war experience and battle trained officers further complecating any efforts.
So as I said, while anything is possible, the scenario described by Mr. W. as a European Military Power rising in the next few months to start global war, defies reason and rationality. Even Nostradamus sounds more convincing by comparison.
Quote After perusing bits of Mr. Weinland's End Times I have some comments: “The beast (of Revelations ) spoken of here is a military power that emerges out of Europe for the seventh and final time in history.”
Since the time frame for this starts this Spring, I would say that while anything is possible, it is highly unlikely in the extreme:
The European Union does not command the national armies of it's members.
Europe has no functional combined army, the national armies while strong have little capacity for the kind of strategic movement that would be necessary for war outside of Europe proper.
The only nuclear power of such a union (here I exclude Great Britain and Russia) would be France and their capabilities very limited, especially strategically.
The best multinational command structure is NATO which is too tied to the USA/UK/Can to be used against them without warning.
The US Army is admitedly very small and overstreched, yet the US Navy is veritably supreme on the high seas and european naval capabilities are dwarfed by the Anglo-American fleets.
U.S. nuclear forces were designed with a cold war mutually assured destruction policies that would, despite any conceivable nuclear strike have the ability to strike back globally, thus destoying the offender's means to continue or perhaps to even exist.
Europe is, if anything, of a pacifist bent and it would have to make abrupt political, social, and organizational changes, as well as vast redirecting of budgets and production to the military to even contemplate such actions much less carry them out. With the end of the Soviet Union the European military capabilities have atrophied not increased.
Europe especially if you exclude the UK, has had trouble even organizing small efforts like Bosnia and Afghanistan. They have not fought in a major wars, (unlike USA), since the 1940s so have little recent war experience and battle trained officers further complecating any efforts.
So as I said, while anything is possible, the scenario described by Mr. W. as a European Military Power rising in the next few months to start global war, defies reason and rationality. Even Nostradamus sounds more convincing by comparison.
Jesus said that wars and rumors of wars would always be essentially. Because there is war don't necessarily think the end is come. But Jesus says when you see the abomination of desolation, head for the hills. But then he tells Peter, James, John, and Andrew to pray that there flight is not on the sabbath day because then will be great tribulation.
Jesus said to pray always to be accounted worthy to escape the great tribulation. This was one a the only times that Jesus actually fills in the blank for us and tells us what to pray for specifically. He also said to pray for it always.
Then shall two be in the field one will be taken and the other left. Behold, he comes quickly in an hour that ye think not.
Quote (doctorex @ Feb. 26 2008,22:50) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 26 2008,19:39) Romans 14:5 One Person esteems one day above another, another esteems every day alike. LET EACH OF YOU BE FULLY CONVINCED IN HIS OWN MIND. This is indeed talking about the Sabbath or any day that you want to keep. If you want to keep the Sabbath do so. But don't judge those that do not.
The Greatest Commandment of all is to Love God with all of your Heart and your Neighbor as yourself.I'm sorry but Romans 14 is not talking about the Sabbath, and you have taken it out of cantext. Read it, it is talking about eating and eating not unto the Lord, i.e fasting. Fasting is between you and God, just like prayer. Also I am not judging anybody for not observing the Sabbath. And yes the greatest commandment of all is to love God with all of your heart, and how do you show God that you do love him and want a relationship? By obeying him.
Romans 14:5 ” One Person esteems one day above another, another esteemes every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.Verse 6 He that on serves it to the LORDetc.
If you read the whole chapter you will see that Paul was talking about not only the day that we esteem to God, He also talked about meats and judging. All that is in Romans 14.
To deny what it says is to deny God's word.
Since I have been Baptized and have God's Holy Spirit I keep every day to the Lord. That is the way I want to keep it. I worship God every day not just on the Sabbath day. We do not live in the Old Covenant anymore, but the New. The law has been magnified and made Spiritual.
There are several article which I have with somebody that kept the letter of the law. It is under the Covenant Tread. I have mentioned this before. But you all just ignore it.Again time will tell. Till then Peace and Love be with you all.
Peace and Love Mrs.
It is clear these minds are turned “off” and off for a reason. God has not opened it yet. There is nothing we (Brethren) can say to any of these people. Remember, it's God's job to open their minds. Not Ron’s and not ours. God will in due time, either sometime during the tribulation or in 1000 years when they are resurrected.
Remember Gods words through Ron…
Mankind must learn that the way of selfish human nature is incapable of producing lasting peace, happiness, prosperity, and fullness of life. The way of “get” (selfish, pride-filled motivation) produces sorrow, pain, suffering, competition, envy, jealousy, greed, anger, resentment, bitterness, wars, oppression, disease, hunger, lust, opposition, sexual perversion, depression, crime, debate, etc. Only God’s way produces all that is good and richly fulfilling, with everlasting happiness and peace in life.
I hope all are doing well!
One last thing Brethren… its easy to get caught up in wanting to help those who don't get it. Keep your focus on God during these times and an eye on world events. The rest is just man made garbage.
For those who want to let go of your self interpretation of the Bible and receive God's truth: http://www.the-end.com Once you have read them cover to cover and if you have questions any Brethren would love to answer them for you.
Have a great day!
Quote (Broncs453 @ Feb. 27 2008,06:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2008,06:03) Hi,
What fascinates me is the way we are referred to the books. Nobody seems able to articulate in their own words what they believe but we have to read the leaders' words. I find that a little disturbing.
Nick,I can articulate just fine. The books are 500+ pages combined. So it's just a little bit difficult to explain that in a few paragraphs here. All the material builds upon itself. It's like asking you to explain the Bible in a couple of paragraphs. What would you say to that? Probably tell somebody to read it themselves, no doubt.
Peace,
Hi,
If nobody is able to state what Ron says but we are referred to his books it does sound as though nobody really believes it in their heart and as soon as the day passes it will all be Ron's fault.The good thing about the Spirit of God's teaching is that it reaches the heart and all in Christ can espouse and share it.
Quote Remember Gods words through Ron… Mankind must learn that the way of selfish human nature is incapable of producing lasting peace, happiness, prosperity, and fullness of life. The way of “get” (selfish, pride-filled motivation) produces sorrow, pain, suffering, competition, envy, jealousy, greed, anger, resentment, bitterness, wars, oppression, disease, hunger, lust, opposition, sexual perversion, depression, crime, debate, etc. Only God’s way produces all that is good and richly fulfilling, with everlasting happiness and peace in life.
I hope all are doing well!
One last thing Brethren… its easy to get caught up in wanting to help those who don't get it. Keep your focus on God during these times and an eye on world events. The rest is just man made garbage.
For those who want to let go of your self interpretation of the Bible and receive God's truth: http://www.the-end.com Once you have read them cover to cover and if you have questions any Brethren would love to answer them for you.
The major message of Christ was to be ready for his unexpected coming, not to be caught up in world events. The only exception is when you se the antichrist you should know that you missed the thief in the night flight. All the world will know that hour because it will come upon the whole world as a snare.
Quote (Anticipation of Peace @ Feb. 27 2008,06:37) Not once did you mention Germany in your information. Care to speculate?
What does my Hometown have to do with it? I have not received Mr. Weinlands Book yet. Maybe He will not send me one when He finds out who wants it, I happen to know Mr. Weinland. He was our Assistant Minister in the Church for 10 years. So I do not know what it says about Germany. I am interesting to find out, tho.Peace and Love Mrs.
seek – why don't you just download it from his site? Instead of waiting for the books to arrive. It took about 4 weeks to get my books, and that was about 6 months ago.
Nick – Ron is saying that he is one of the two end-time witnesses, and he has a job of letting everyone know of what is coming. It's up to you to believe him or not. Most will not believe him, and the ones that do will be mocked and looked at as whackos! I certainly believe that he is one of the 2 witnesses. It wont hurt to read his books. If your belief is so strong, then you should have nothing to be worried about. Instead of spending the time here asking questions, you can find all the answers (maybe in a day or two) by reading the books.
The importance of Germany is that it's going to be the primary driving force behind the United Europe of 10 nations coming on the scene in a couple of months, in response to the power vacuum left by the demise of the US. It seems incredulous when you look at the world right now, but catastrophic events will change all that. I'm not particularly fond of it either, being a citizen of Germany and 20 yrs old, I'm quite scared of what might be coming my way in a couple of months. If they draft people into the military or force labor, it could become very ugly.
Quote (doctorex @ Feb. 26 2008,23:11) When did I promote anything. By saying what I believe I am not promoting anything anymore than you are.
When you speak of someones teachings or prophecies you are either critiquing or promoting. It seems that many in htis thread are promoting.Hence, if someone promotes a false prophet then they need to repent and ask forgiveness of anyone that may have been led astray by them.
When we support a prophet we receive a prophets reward to some degree. A false prophet has it's consequences too, but they are not good.
Quote (Broncs453 @ Feb. 27 2008,03:32) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 26 2008,21:56) Here are some interesting facts you may want to consider: Mr Weinland is not one of the 2 witnesses spoken of in Revelation.
The Church of God (PKG) or not is not the body of Christ or the Church. There may be members who are involved in this that belong to the true Body of Christ/Church, but the Church is not a denomination. The Church is Christ's body. It is made up of those who are connected to Christ and filled with the Spirit. The Church is the temple by which God Spirit dwells. God lives in his people.
When nuclear war doesn't destroy the USA in April, then you guys will know that you were deceived. When that happens, it would be good for all of you to publicly apologise in this discussion for anyone who may have been led astray by these prophecies from Mr Weinland.
But know this also, that true believers will hopefully not mock or ridicule you when these things do not come to pass. But we should be here to help you understand truths that are written with spiritual understanding and not in this present carnal way. I will be here to help anyone who asks for what that is worth.
Now I do not say that Mr Weinland is a false prophet because all prophets are false. No. There are true prophets just as there are false ones. Mr Weinland is a false prophet and he incorrectly believes that the Church of God (PKG) is the true Church.
This all reminds me of the Jehovah Witnesses who also believe they are the true body/church. They have had their fair share of false prophecies too. Sadly you would think that after these prophecies do not come to pass that this would be the end of this. But it most likely will not. The Jehovah Witnesses continue to this day and so probably will the Church of God (PKG). I think even the Yahweh.com group who predicted Nuclear War on Sept. 12 2006 are still around too.
Even false prophecies will not make some people see deception and there will rise up again more false prophets who will deceive.
In May there will still be a Church of God (PKG) and a non-nuked USA too.
However in saying this I do take a small risk because given the amount of false prophecies about the timing of the end, it is actually possible that a false prophet somewhere may guess the right period of time due to coincidence. As the saying goes even a broken clock is correct 2 times a day.
Let me ask you 3 questions:1.) Have you read either one of Ron Weinland's books?
2.) Have you listened to ANY of his interviews?
3.) Have you listened to ANY of his sermons?If your answers to any one of these questions is NO, then to be very blunt, you know not of what you speak. Mr. Weinland never says that a nuclear attack will begin in April. He says that the tribulation will begin in April. There's quite a bit of difference. He does say that the 6 month period of time beginning in April 2008 will bring about the destruction of the US as we know it.
With all due respect, please don't ask us to apologize for something you are not informed on. Once you have educated yourself, we can have a more intelligent discussion.
Peace,
Yes I listened to a rather long MP3 where he blatantly said that he was one of the witnesses and he was awaiting the other one. He talked of nuclear war and destruction in the US, UK, even Australia and New Zealand. He mentioned the splinters and how his splinter was the one that Yahweh was working through. Lots of other details too.But here is the reality:
- He is not one of the witnesses. He is a false witness.
- His splinter group is not the Church/Body of Christ.
- He was no different to the rantings of leaders who run other exclusive denominations, such as Yisrayl Hawkins from the house of Yahweh and some of the people who prophesied falsely in the Jehovah Witnesses.
They all have these in common.
1. They claim to be the leader of the exclusive Church/Body
2. They prophecy the end of the world with dates, months, years.My advice is to not listen to such people.
Their only mission is a secret one and that is to disillusion people toward God, the bible, and prophecy. They may not be aware of it, but that is the fruit in the end.
And not only are these men to blame, but so are their followers. For these men would have no power if there were no followers.
But history shows us that certain people don't learn and they only get hurt when they find out that they put there trust in a man. And then a new false prophet arises and deceives many.
But if you put your trust in Yeshua, then he will never let you down. It is he who brings us to God, holy and blameless.
When you do listen to men, listen for the voice of Yeshua. He speaks through his servants. If he is not talking, then the man or something else is talking.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 27 2008,07:40) Quote (doctorex @ Feb. 26 2008,23:11) When did I promote anything. By saying what I believe I am not promoting anything anymore than you are.
When you speak of someones teachings or prophecies you are either critiquing or promoting. It seems that many in htis thread are promoting.Hence, if someone promotes a false prophet then they need to repent and ask forgiveness of anyone that may have been led astray by them.
When we support a prophet we receive a prophets reward to some degree. A false prophet has it's consequences too, but they are not good.
If things start to come to pass as outlined by Ron, how about you apologize and repent here, for hanging on to beliefs that will then appear to be false?? Will you do that? If you feel that you are being “led astray” by any of this discussion, then your current beliefs must not be that strong to begin with!My personal interpretation of what will happen is that nukes will not come in April, but rather an escalation of natural disasters and crimes against man; i.e. more murders etc will start then. There has been an increase in those already. Then over the summer things will continue, possibly with Obama being shot around August, and a US uprising as a result. The nuke attack will not be from foreigners but our own government. Anybody who doesn't believe that can or will happen is a fool. The European nations will not be a factor until much further into the 3 1/2 yr tribulation. Just as China would never been thought of as a “world power” only a few years ago, Europe or Germany may seem insignificant now.
Remember that many things can happen in a short period of time that may seem impossible now.
Peace,
Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 27 2008,15:45) Quote (Anticipation of Peace @ Feb. 27 2008,06:37) Not once did you mention Germany in your information. Care to speculate?
What does my Hometown have to do with it? I have not received Mr. Weinlands Book yet. Maybe He will not send me one when He finds out who wants it, I happen to know Mr. Weinland. He was our Assistant Minister in the Church for 10 years. So I do not know what it says about Germany. I am interesting to find out, tho.Peace and Love Mrs.
I actually was asking Cato his thoughts on Germany in the EU.Quote (Broncs453 @ Feb. 27 2008,08:06) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 27 2008,07:40) Quote (doctorex @ Feb. 26 2008,23:11) When did I promote anything. By saying what I believe I am not promoting anything anymore than you are.
When you speak of someones teachings or prophecies you are either critiquing or promoting. It seems that many in htis thread are promoting.Hence, if someone promotes a false prophet then they need to repent and ask forgiveness of anyone that may have been led astray by them.
When we support a prophet we receive a prophets reward to some degree. A false prophet has it's consequences too, but they are not good.
If things start to come to pass as outlined by Ron, how about you apologize and repent here, for hanging on to beliefs that will then appear to be false?? Will you do that? If you feel that you are being “led astray” by any of this discussion, then your current beliefs must not be that strong to begin with!My personal interpretation of what will happen is that nukes will not come in April, but rather an escalation of natural disasters and crimes against man; i.e. more murders etc will start then. There has been an increase in those already. Then over the summer things will continue, possibly with Obama being shot around August, and a US uprising as a result. The nuke attack will not be from foreigners but our own government. Anybody who doesn't believe that can or will happen is a fool. The European nations will not be a factor until much further into the 3 1/2 yr tribulation. Just as China would never been thought of as a “world power” only a few years ago, Europe or Germany may seem insignificant now.
Remember that many things can happen in a short period of time that may seem impossible now.
Peace,
Hi broncs,
Is Ron wrong then?
Are you adjusting the understandings to make them fit reality?Quote (WaterAmerican @ Feb. 27 2008,07:14) The importance of Germany is that it's going to be the primary driving force behind the United Europe of 10 nations coming on the scene in a couple of months, in response to the power vacuum left by the demise of the US. It seems incredulous when you look at the world right now, but catastrophic events will change all that. I'm not particularly fond of it either, being a citizen of Germany and 20 yrs old, I'm quite scared of what might be coming my way in a couple of months. If they draft people into the military or force labor, it could become very ugly.
That is exactly what Mr. ARMSTRONG TOLD Us back then that would happen. So we waited and waited it did not happen. And I doubt it will ever happen.Peace and Lovr Mrs.
Quote (Broncs453 @ Feb. 27 2008,08:06) If things start to come to pass as outlined by Ron, how about you apologize and repent here, for hanging on to beliefs that will then appear to be false?? Will you do that? If you feel that you are being “led astray” by any of this discussion, then your current beliefs must not be that strong to begin with!
If Ron prophecies correctly, then of course I will apologise.But as mentioned before, there are so many false prophets and false prophecies, that statistically speaking a false prophet could say something correctly in the same way that a broken clock is correct 2 times every day.
But his prophecies are quite specific and for all of them to come to pass and still be a false prophet would be highly unlikely, probably impossible.
OK, so what is the first sign that we can all judge that if it doesn't come to pass, will show that he is false? Let's get something definite on table.
Is it nuclear war in April? Is that something we can judge from what he has said and therefore will prove him false if it doesn't come to pass? Are we happy to all wait for May to see if the USA, UK, AUS, NZ are nuked or not?
Would you guys be happy to start a Wikipedia article on Ronald Weinland when his prophecies about USA, AUS, UK, & NZ being nuked in April do not come to pass? The article would of course have to explain that his prophecies didn't come to pass.
If so, you could use the article on Yisrayl Hawkins as a guide.
Quote (WaterAmerican @ Feb. 27 2008,07:14) The importance of Germany is that it's going to be the primary driving force behind the United Europe of 10 nations coming on the scene in a couple of months, in response to the power vacuum left by the demise of the US. It seems incredulous when you look at the world right now, but catastrophic events will change all that. I'm not particularly fond of it either, being a citizen of Germany and 20 yrs old, I'm quite scared of what might be coming my way in a couple of months. If they draft people into the military or force labor, it could become very ugly.
Ich muss Ihnen warnen, der Man Mr. Weinlamd war in ther selben Kirche wo wir drin waren fuer 10 Jahre. Ich glaube kaum das was Er sagt alles geschieht.
It has been awhile since I wrote German. Are you German? I remember one of you saying something before about it. I don't think that you have much to worry about. This is not Hitler and the S.S. Soldiers.
I always kind of crinch when I hear this.
Peace and Love Mrs.
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