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G,
You pay scant respect to what scripture says but are quick to offer your own alternative words.
What sort of wisdom is this?Nick………Could say the same about you, seening you refuse to believe what scripture say in some places , like When Jesus said GOd could destory (both) body and soul (IN) the Grave, you assume that there are three components to a person < the body, Soul, the spirit, but Jessu and scripture does not back that up. You assume the Word is NOT Spirit as Jesus said it was , You assume Peter was not a Satan , When Jesus said he was, You believe in Minions and Spooks where no scripture supports you dogmas. I really thing you are the one offering alternatives word here. So i would ask you the same question what sort f wisdom is yours, seeing you disbelieve even Jesus words. IMO
Quote (kerwin @ April 28 2010,17:37) Gene Balthrop, So we Jesus is teaching us not to give “means reverence and respect” to those who would kill the body.
That certainly seems to contradict scriptures that tells you to obey the authorities God placed over you.
Why did he bother mentioning “kill the body” or “destroy both soul and body in hell” if he did not mean fear?
Kerwin ………..Have you ever look up the word used for fear in a concordance. I think that should be enough , not to mention all the scriptures i have quoted you, where scripture speaks against fear and connects it with unbelief. Are you truly after the truth or just a show of self righteousness. What parts of those many scriptures i have quoted you don't seem to understand.peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Gene Balthrop,
I look up the Greek word in a Lexicon and if I understand correctly it is “phobeō” and has several possible definitions not just one.
Whenever this happens you choose the most apropriate definition given the context of the passage. I was pointing out in my previous post that you were choosing a definition that ignorred the context of the passage.
Here is the possible definitions I found:
Entry for phobeō at searchgodsword.org reads:
Quote 1. to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)
a. to put to flight, to flee
b. to fear, be afraid
1. to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm 1b
c. of those startled by strange sights or occurrences 1b
d. of those struck with amazement
1. to fear, be afraid of one
2. to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)
e. to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedienceOur duty as Christians is to treat the authorities God puts over us with reverential obedience or diference. Jesus did not contradict that command but rater reinforced it with his teaching to give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and to God what is God's.
We also do not venerate God for his ability to “destroy both soul and body in hell” but rather because he is a loving God.
This means definition 1e is a no go.
Now definition 1d2 is a different matter as sin does harm and so does one who can “destroy both soul and body in hell”. It also fits in relation to “kill the body” the body which is also considered harmful.
Quote (kerwin @ April 29 2010,16:49) Gene Balthrop, I look up the Greek word in a Lexicon and if I understand correctly it is “phobeō” and has several possible definitions not just one.
Whenever this happens you choose the most apropriate definition given the context of the passage. I was pointing out in my previous post that you were choosing a definition that ignorred the context of the passage.
Here is the possible definitions I found:
Entry for phobeō at searchgodsword.org reads:
Quote 1. to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)
a. to put to flight, to flee
b. to fear, be afraid
1. to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm 1b
c. of those startled by strange sights or occurrences 1b
d. of those struck with amazement
1. to fear, be afraid of one
2. to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)
e. to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedienceOur duty as Christians is to treat the authorities God puts over us with reverential obedience or diference. Jesus did not contradict that command but rater reinforced it with his teaching to give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and to God what is God's.
We also do not venerate God for his ability to “destroy both soul and body in hell” but rather because he is a loving God.
This means definition 1e is a no go.
Now definition 1d2 is a different matter as sin does harm and so does one who can “destroy both soul and body in hell”. It also fits in relation to “kill the body” the body which is also considered harmful.
KWok you have established what fear is,
now explain why it is the beginning of wisdom?
Terrarica wrote:
Quote ok you have established what fear is,
now explain why it is the beginning of wisdom?
It is the begining of wisdom because it shows you know God's commands are just and loving since he is looking out for you. Kerwin………….> PHOBEO ….> is where we get our word Phobias , and it does put you in flight even from FAITH in GOD. It creates a dread and causes instability and makes for a unsound mind. ” But you have not recieved a SPIRIT OF FEAR, But of Love and Power and of a (SOUND) MIND”. When are you Just going to believe This. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ April 29 2010,17:12) Terrarica wrote: Quote ok you have established what fear is,
now explain why it is the beginning of wisdom?
It is the begining of wisdom because it shows you know God's commands are just and loving since he is looking out for you.
KWin your comment you assumed that all men know God and so know his law
is there only one sort of wisdom??Terraricca…………It should be read the (Reverence and respect) of GOD is the beginning of Wisdom . When we understand that GOD is Wise and Knows all things ,and has told us the right way to live, we are beginning to gain wisdom ourselves. Fear or Dread of GOD has nothing to do with it. It is unfortunate that Scripture has used the word FEAR or Phobeos to try to convey this to us. God Wants us to Love Him Not fear Him, Do we want our childern to (FEAR) us Or LOVE and RESPECT US, even if we discipline them at times, it is the same with GOD, He has never said anything to Us that is not good for us and will cause us to enjoy life more abundantly. Fear mongers are not projecting GOD in the right light, they are distorting GODS love for us and all His creation. They shall be held accountable how they portray the FATHER. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Terraricca………..This you may find interesting, about How GOD Want His NAME put out, He told Moses to tell Aron that He would bless the Childern of Israel (If) they would Put His name out this way, “THE LORD BLESS AND KEEP YOU, THE LORD MAKE HIS FACE SHINE ON YOU AND BE GRACIOUS UNTO YOU, THE LORD MAKE HIS COUNTENANCE TO RISE ON YOU AND GIVE YOU PEACE”. Then he went on to say if they would put outs his name this way HE (THEN) would BLESS THEM. God the FATHER is very Concerned (HOW) we VIEW HIM. Fear Has no Place in our LOVE for GOD the FATHER. Love giving, us Respect and Reverence does. IMO
Fear mongers use God's word to gain (their own ) control over others , They foster Fear , because this give (THEM) control over them and give them an (appearance) of righteousness. Many religious leaders us this fear tactic to gain mental and financial control over others. “But we have not recieve that Spirit of FEAR as they Have, But of Love and Power and of a sound mind”. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
gene and KW
what is the begining of wisdom? is it not the first question ;hem i the master or is there someone greather than men?this can be answered by the law,and by Gods creation,both will tell you there is a God
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 29 2010,20:46) Kerwin………….> PHOBEO ….> is where we get our word Phobias , and it does put you in flight even from FAITH in GOD. It creates a dread and causes instability and makes for a unsound mind. ” But you have not recieved a SPIRIT OF FEAR, But of Love and Power and of a (SOUND) MIND”. When are you Just going to believe This. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
You should test what you write as you are inferring that Jesus teaches a false doctrine since he did use the word “phobeō” in Matthew 10:28.Jesus used the word “phobeō” amd he was not speaking of phobias but rather of the need for a Christian to fear the wrath of God. That is why scripture instructs us not to put God to the test.
I will adress the point you lifted out of Romans 8:15 by first pointing out the Greek word traslated to the English word “fear” is different than Jesus used in Matthew 10:28 though a variation of the same root. It is “phobos” as opposed to “phobeō” and has different though similar definitions.
Entry for phobos at searchgodsword.org reads:
Quote 1. fear, dread, terror
a. that which strikes terror
2. reverence for one's husbandI am going to say that definition 1. is the correct one though 1a. gives an interesting way to look at the spirit. 2. is a no go as we are commanded to have reverence for the husband of the church.
Quote (terraricca @ April 29 2010,21:09) Quote (kerwin @ April 29 2010,17:12) Terrarica wrote: Quote ok you have established what fear is,
now explain why it is the beginning of wisdom?
It is the begining of wisdom because it shows you know God's commands are just and loving since he is looking out for you.
KWin your comment you assumed that all men know God and so know his law
is there only one sort of wisdom??
It is possible that all human beings do have an intrinsic knowledge of God. Never the less I was not stating that.I was pointing out that there is only one kind of wisdom scripture is primarilly concerned with. That is the knowledge of how to do God's will and putting that knowledge into action. In some cases of scripture if you know how to do right but do not do it then it is not considered godly wisdom.
Quote (terraricca @ April 30 2010,13:46) gene and KW what is the begining of wisdom? is it not the first question ;hem i the master or is there someone greather than men?this can be answered by the law,and by Gods creation,both will tell you there is a God
Gene and KWwisdom in action;Mt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
Terraricca………..It depends on where your heart is, and ones heart will be where GOD places it and to what degree God has ministered to Him true Faith, he will serve GOD and Jesus both. True Faith is not from the SELF it is GIVEN BY GOD and this reality is expedient for us to actual Know GOD. GOD works with that person with Miricales in His or Her Life , evidencing Himself with them Just as He did with Jesus and the Apostles as He confirmed their words by those Miracles that followed them , nothing has change it is still true today.
The question here is Who Has (TRUE) FAITH?, “When the son of man comes will he find Faith on the EARTH”? That my friend is a very good Question. Paul says ” tell me this He that (works miracles) among you , does He do it by works of Law or Hearing of your Faith”. People have fallen so far from true Faith they don't even (EXPECT) GOD to truly answer them anymore it appears. They have replaced FAITH with SUPPOSITIONS, THEY SUPPOSE THERE IS A GOD BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD THEM SO> They have NO real experience with HIM to Confirm their (SUPPOSED) FAITH. IMO
peace and Love to you and yours…………………gene
Nick…………Anyone can memorize Scripture , but that is not equal to (TRUE) Faith , surely you know this by Now. I hear of a man once who claimed to have memorized most all the bible. None of that could ever changed anyones Heart or Mind, and He who God has Changed and given a new Heart (WILL) abide and do GOD'S Will, because greater is He that is in Him than He that is in the World. But you are right we should abide in the words of Jesus. But it is far better to understand His words then Memorize them IMO.
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
GB,
So the fruit is of abiding in the Word.
Out of the mouth comes what the heart is full of.
We need to be sweet water and not salt mixed with sweet.[Jas 3.11]Nick…………If you have no Salt in you, you are good for nothing but to be cast out and trumped under by the foot of Men. Jesus told us to Have SALT in ourselves and have Peace. The word of GOD will flow out of all hearts if GOD is in them and guiding our thoughts, no matter if you have never read one word written in scriptures. It's what in the heart that counts Nick , speaking the Words written in scripture does not equal a right Heart, many quote scriptures and have not the Spirit of GOD in them at all. IMO
peace and love……………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 03 2010,08:57) Terraricca………..It depends on where your heart is, and ones heart will be where GOD places it and to what degree God has ministered to Him true Faith, he will serve GOD and Jesus both. True Faith is not from the SELF it is GIVEN BY GOD and this reality is expedient for us to actual Know GOD. GOD works with that person with Miricales in His or Her Life , evidencing Himself with them Just as He did with Jesus and the Apostles as He confirmed their words by those Miracles that followed them , nothing has change it is still true today. The question here is Who Has (TRUE) FAITH?, “When the son of man comes will he find Faith on the EARTH”? That my friend is a very good Question. Paul says ” tell me this He that (works miracles) among you , does He do it by works of Law or Hearing of your Faith”. People have fallen so far from true Faith they don't even (EXPECT) GOD to truly answer them anymore it appears. They have replaced FAITH with SUPPOSITIONS, THEY SUPPOSE THERE IS A GOD BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD THEM SO> They have NO real experience with HIM to Confirm their (SUPPOSED) FAITH. IMO
peace and Love to you and yours…………………gene
geneJoel 2:11 The LORD thunders with his mighty voice
as he leads his army.
He has so many forces they can’t even be counted.
Those who obey his commands are great in number.
The day of the LORD is great and terrifying.
Who can live through it?the righteous did.
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