August 23, 2004 at 4:00 am #41201
why would you think revelations is in the Bible? Just wanting to hear what different people have to say.August 23, 2004 at 4:06 am #41202ringo111Participant
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It is backed up in teaching all through the New Testiment.
Keeping of the promises to the saints.
Promotes the teachings of Jesus, as far as Overcoming as he overcame, which is what the disciples teach. The start rebukings and affirmations, Set the grounds for the rest of the prophecy to be believed as true.
And is not in contradiction to the Old Testiment prophecies.August 23, 2004 at 4:15 am #41203
Yeah, I know it should be there.
I mean, its also one of my favorite books in the Bible, and its sometimes hard to understand but its great. I just know people that dont believe it should be there and I'm thinking, there is a LOT of good information and VERY useful and truthful stuff that does NOT contredict ANYTHING in the Bible.
I'm just real curious now how many people think or believe that Revelations should or shouldn't be in the Bible…
Man, i think its interesting…so many people think that the Bible contradicts science, but actually, it doesn't. It only contradicts THEORIES and still, many people around don't know how to define theory or tell it apart from fact. Just something i was thinkingAugust 23, 2004 at 4:42 am #41204ringo111Participant
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It contradicts many things that people have altered in the various translations.
But anything reliable and true, it does not contradict.
There are many things in it that i really like, like the promises to those who obey, but also that it shows gods ownership of many spirits “spirits of GoD” and The fact that “the bride of christ” is just a building, that we are all to enter.
Me and my mum were talking about the book the other day, She was like,” to me its a great incouragment, and makes so much sense.” The rest is a vaugue picture of what she said, She said strange that others say its hard to understand, and confusing, when the book is so straight forward. Theyre eyes just must be veiled, or they choose to not understand.
Personally, I believe much of the book is in direct contradiction to many beliefs.
*With the book, Jesus has people tourchoured before him forever. Apart from the seccond death.
9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.” 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
*And him saying, he will reward each of us according to our deeds, Punishing those who do not repent with tourment. Even before our deaths. which is backed up by, the two that lied to the apposles and died. Or herod who was struck down by angels for not giving glory to GoD.
So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.
*Revelation end's the lie of the trinity. Jesus being in Heaven still has a GoD.
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.
*That it is clear, we must have the same approach to life as Jesus, we too must overcome like he did, That jesus is the way, the path, the example to follow!! And not like many say, Who think Jesus is a donkey, that you can ride into heaven. But that you are to obey GoD's commands and by doing so are found worthy, For. “Many are called, But few are Chosen”
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.
So much more that prooves ignorant theologies wrong. I likies it so much ^_^August 23, 2004 at 6:34 pm #41205
Yeah, i like it a lot too, and to me, it is easy to understand…November 17, 2004 at 6:01 am #41206
To night's news of a locust plague in North Africa reminds me that Joel ch 1-2 suggest such an event may be a part of the early events in endtimes prophecy. Who knows more about these things?November 17, 2004 at 7:38 am #41207
There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.
Sounds like these days. But such things will get worse like the birth pains of a woman.November 21, 2004 at 7:47 am #41208
Hi,In the beginning and end of Revelation 24 “Elders” are mentioned. Who are thses?
One thought is that it is the heads of the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles.They wear crowns, sit on thrones and act as though they are not new to the function of heavenly order.
I have problems with this idea. First in the start of Revelation the tribulation has not started, the first resurrection has not happened and there are only Enoch and Elijah known to be in heaven. It is a popular myth that we all go to heaven when we die. We sleep and await the resurrection on earth and the 1000 yr reign. And there will be far more than 24 on thrones in the millenium surely?
If it is these 24 people mentioned above why are they separated from the rest of the saved-do they have greater rights? If it is seen as a vision of the end of the end and then the tribulation is laid out as it had occurred it is difficult to see how it fits together.
Could they be archangels or sons of God is my question.November 21, 2004 at 5:57 pm #41209
The word “elder” has several meanings. As well as the usual understanding of “Senior” or “experienced” it also means “men of old” or older person.
I Revelation they are mentioned 12 times talking, singing, bowing down and giving advice. Certainly angels have spoken with men and given advice elsewhere in the Word. If they were the OT or NT leaders would they not be personally identified as such when one spoke, for example in Rev 5.5? Since the archangels are different to ordinary angels, unique in ability and status and role where do you see them otherwise in Revelation?November 21, 2004 at 6:28 pm #41210
And of course the sons of God were the first creations after the Son of God and before the rest of the angels. They were in the beginning including Satan [“He was a murderer from the beginning”]and were seen in Jb 38 before the earth was created.So they are the oldest?elders?November 23, 2004 at 2:40 am #41211
“Babylon has been captured”
“Babylon has been seized”
“Babylon has been a golden cup in the hand of the Lord, intoxicating all the earth. The nations have drunk of her wine ,therefore the nations are going mad. Suddenly Babylon has fallen and been broken”
“O you who dwell by many waters, abundant in treasures, your end has come”
“Come forth from her midst, My people and each of you save yourselves from the fierce anger of the Lord”
“Depart do not stay”
“Though Babylon should ascend to the heavens ,and though she should fortify her lofty stronghold from Me destroyers will come to her says the Lord”
“He will fully repay”
I am fascinated how these verses in ch 50 and 51 of Jeremiah almost directly mirror the words of Revelation 17 and 18.
In the footnotes of my bible it says the words may not be those of Jeremiah but may be a collection of other's words as Greek versions do not refer to him in Ch 50.1.
It does raise some other questions too. The initial fulfillment of the prophecy was in about 538bc when Babylon was attacked. But they await another fulfillment. And it seems the place of Babylon may still figure in the prophesied disasters rather than just thev religious expression of that in our time?
The woman's headband in rev 17.5 says “..a mystery.Babylon the great,..”Surely the source of her witchcraft and idolatry and sorcery was the Chaldeans sinful practices. Could this prophecy have wider expression now too?November 25, 2004 at 9:30 pm #41212
The Millenial Kingdom is described in Isaiah 65. But it says people will still die at the age of 100, so for some humans little changes in thay way, though the frustrations and dangers disappear with Satan's captivity.
These people clearly still have mortal bodies and not imperishable new bodies as described in 1 cor 15.
Are these the Jewish people or those still alive at the time of the second coming who have not yet been saved?
Who knows?November 29, 2004 at 12:23 am #41213
Hi, The 7th cahpter of Revelation starts with the sealing of the first fruits-the Jews.Then there is the triumph of the elect in vvs 9 onwards. We are already sealed ,with the Holy Spirit.[Eph 1.13 and 4.30].They have washed their clothes in the blood of the Lamb having been baptised into his death.
Some interpretations suggest they have been taken out of the tribulation [? raptured] and some suggest thay it means they were protected through the tribulation [as in Ps 91]. If it is the rapture then sequentially [before God's wrath is expressed] it fits but what do others think?December 4, 2004 at 3:49 am #41214
Rev 15.1f says” I saw in heaven another sign, great and awe-inspiring: seven angels holding the seven final plagues which would bring God's wrath to a climax”
If this is a heavenly stellar sign I wonder what it would be.
There is a group of stars known a the Seven Sisters or Pleides. They are known as Matariki by the Maori who navigated by them to come to New Zealand.They are very beautiful in the North sky by the horizon.
It is also three times in the bible.
” Seek the Lord that you may live…He that made the Pleides and Orion, who turns darkness into dawn and darkens day into night..”
And Job 9.8f
” He alone stretches out the heavens and treads upon the crests of the sea. He made the Bear and Orion, the Pleides and the constellations of the south.”
And Job 38.31f
” Have you fitted a curb to the Pleides or loosened the bonds of Orion? Can you bring forth the Mazzaroth in their season or guide the bear with it's train? Do you know the ordinances of the heavens;can you put into effect their plan on the earth?”
I wonder if these could play a part in God's plan since they feature in the Word. Perhaps we should keep such things in the back of our minds?December 29, 2004 at 6:34 pm #41215
The events of the last few days may be spoken of in scripture.
” There will be signs in the Sun, the Moon and the stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish, DISTRAUGHT AT THE ROARING OF THE SEA AND THE WAVES..”
What do others think?December 31, 2004 at 12:56 am #41216
Rev 16.20″ and every island fled away ,and the mountains were not found”
Scripture is full of references to the earth writhing and shaking at the time when the Lord is returning. Are these his footsteps we hear?February 5, 2005 at 10:30 pm #41217
Endtimes study suggests a change in the relationship between the Earth ,Sun , Moon and Stars.Yeshua warned us to watch for these things and hold our heads up high as our rescue is near. He warned us not to be asleep.
The recent earthquake and tsunami is a small version of what will be. That event shortened the days slightly and caused the earth to wobble slightly.
Is 24 and Rev6 suggests a polar shift with Stars appearing to fall. Days will be shortened and the sun will go down at midday. There will be great heat and fires. There will be clouds and no rain for 3 and a half years. The stars will be covered by the clouds. Water and food will become very scarce. This will cause difficulties growing crops, including grapevines.
Who can add here?February 12, 2005 at 11:46 pm #41218
Yes Nick I thought of these things too.
There is always Lake Taupo too. It is the most explosive volcano on earth and erupts approximately every 2000 years. It's last eruption is regarded as the biggest in the last 5000 years. Approximately 50 to 100 times that of Mt St Helens. Scientists say that previous to that, the eruptions were gigantic compared with the last eruption in 186 AD.
In 186 AD New Zealand was uninhabitied, but the Chinese recorded the bang (on paper ) and the Romans recorded 6 months of brilliant sunsets that year. Both Rome and China are a very long way from NZ.
If it were to blow again, the world would know about it. In fact when you look at a map of NZ's north island the fat middle part is telling of this volcano's activity.
A scientist once said that if the ring of fire were a bus route, Lake Taupo would be the terminus. The ring of fire may play a big role in the last day disasters.February 14, 2005 at 2:07 am #41219
What surprises me is that we are able to watch as these celestial events take place. I would have thought these sort of things would destroy our weak bodies?
Another thought. Is God tongue in cheek in Jer 31.35f relating these changes to His relationship to Israel?February 14, 2005 at 7:32 am #41220
If we think about it we are on a ball that spins around a sun that spins around a galaxy of billions of suns. The galaxies are apparently all moving away from each other at incredible speeds. Yet on earth we feel quite safe and not sick with all that motion. Perhaps we can survive to see such events?
The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
Sounds a lot like comet or meteor. If we look at the comet Shumaker Levy that hit Jupiter. It broke up and and the pieces rained down on the surface. Apparently had that been the earth, it would have destroyed life on earth. Revelation also tells us that no flesh would survive if God didn't shorten those days. Also comets are thought to consist of different elements and water. Perhaps this is what the hail is. The fire could be the heat generated when entering the atmosphere.
8 The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood,
9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
Sounds like a meteoroid. Meteoroid are solid objects hence a burning mountain when it enters the atmosphere. If so, then one would imagine huge tsunamis too as it lands in the sea. the worst tsunami's are creted by such an event. Even the biggest earthquakes can only move the earths crust by tens of metres, so tsunamis tend to take that size (max). But it is their volume of water that is devastating. Landslides and meteors can create gigantic tsunamis.
10 The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water–
11 the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.
Sounds like a nuclear missile to me. Who knows, it could even been in retaliation to the second and third angels trumpets. We were also given a possible clue with the Chernobyl disaster. As many are aware of already, Chernobyls is Russian for Wormwood. Wormwood is a kind of poisonous plant. (Imagine when Russians read their bible. Does it have the word Chernobyl in the Russian bible, I wonder?)
All speculation of course. But such descriptive language makes me and others think of such things.
Also pure speculation perhaps bordering on very imaginitive is that scientists today beleive that the universes is not just expanding, but it is speeding up. If this is true, then what happens to the universe when the universe reaches the speed of light? No more time? We know that the universe is wearing out like a garment and comes to an end by being destroyed by fire.
It is quite amazing that God has revealed so much. The conclusion of course is to serve God. He is the only refuge. We cannot save ourselves.
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