- This topic has 401 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 6 months ago by GeneBalthrop.
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- May 22, 2015 at 5:27 am#798172DavidLParticipant
…THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST…
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and WHO IS TO COME, the Almighty.”
Who is this One we wait for..???
As if we don’t know – the previous verse tells us plainly..
“Look, He is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of Him.” So shall it be! Amen”
This must be the clearest verse in the whole Bible to reveal the Deity of the Son..
(Unless you think it is the Father returning…?!?)
May 22, 2015 at 6:10 am#798174NickHassanParticipantHi davidl,
Who is speaking?
The book or Revelation switches between the Angel, The Son Jesus Christ and God Himself.
You need to discern each voice before you rush to judgement.
May 22, 2015 at 7:49 am#798181kerwinParticipantIt is John’s voice at that point and he simply quotes “The Lords God” according to some text or just “the Lord” according to other texts. The latter is vague enough that is is uncertain whom he is quoting but the version you chose is less vague in it attributes the quote to the Lord God. In the quote the Lord God speaks in the first person while John speaks of Jesus Christ in the third person.
John also speaks of himself in the third person or it is a third party speaking but tradition teaches it is John. I went by tradition in the answer I gave above.
May 24, 2015 at 6:02 am#798332DavidLParticipantIf the verse says that the One speaking is the One “who is, and who was, and who is to come,” – then you should immediately recognize Who is speaking…
Surely it is only your built in prejudices against the trinity doctrine that hinders you from confessing the obvious truth…!
..a truth that sends you scuttling back into your dingy labyrinth of religious confusion..
May 24, 2015 at 6:40 am#798339NickHassanParticipantHi Davidl,
Yes you must be wary of the deceiver.
Beware too of his works done through men.
May 24, 2015 at 7:05 am#798342kerwinParticipantDavidL,
“Look, He is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of Him.” So shall it be! Amen”
These do not say Jesus is God but rather tell us of his second coming.
Revelation 1:8New King James Version (NKJV)
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,”[a] says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Footnotes:Revelation 1:8 NU-Text and M-Text omit the Beginning and the End.
Revelation 1:8 NU-Text and M-Text add God.8 is just a quote that is attributed to either 1) the Lord God or 2) the Lord.
Nothing connects the two verses but given this part of Revelations is the introduction it may be a quote of the same statement that appears later in the actual prophecy.
May 24, 2015 at 7:12 am#798343kerwinParticipantDavidL,
“who is and who was and who is to come”
When speaking of God it just means eternal in a language that does not have the equivalent of the word eternal.
May 24, 2015 at 7:33 am#798347kerwinParticipantDavidL,
I realize you believe it is speaking of Jesus as it states “to come” but their is also a world to come and many other things to come.
May 24, 2015 at 7:34 am#798348NickHassanParticipantHi davidl,
Jesus Christ is the first of the new creation but also the last as he is the door for all others.
May 26, 2015 at 3:36 am#798419GeneBalthropParticipantDavidL…….THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS , “who is, and who was, and who is to come”, is speaking of GOD THE FATHER. A TIME WILL COME WHEN GOD THE FATHER WILL LIVE AND DWELL AMONG HIS PEOPLE, JUST AS SCRIPTURE SAYS HE WILL. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene
June 13, 2016 at 6:21 pm#814827TogelParticipantRevelation 1:17-18 NKJV:
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.
18 “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.Re 2:8 ¶ “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:
Re 22:13 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
Re 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
So, the Almighty is the the Alpha and the Omega = the Beginning and the End = the First and the Last = who lives and was dead = who was dead and came to life. Clearly Jesus Christ.
Before Jesus was born:
Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.
Isaiah 48:12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.
So, if Jesus is not God (I believe that He is the Son of God as well), then how could he uses the same name as God in Isaiah?
June 14, 2016 at 2:01 am#814834GeneBalthropParticipantTogel……JESUS IS THE FIRST AND EXACTLY LIKE THE LAST, OF THOSE RESURECTED FROM THE DEAD.
IN ISSIAH, IT IS GOD SPEAKING, NOT JESUS.., and where it say “his” redeemer it is referencing ISREAL’S REDEEMER , IT is not talking about the man JESUS.
GOD ALMIGHTY IS THE ALPHA AND OMEGA THE FIRST OF “ALL” THINGS, AND THE LAST OF “ALL” THINGS. WITHOUT HIM NOTHING CAME INTO EXISTENCE THAT EXISTS.
peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
June 14, 2016 at 3:37 am#814836TogelParticipantGene… I am sorry, but I think you are putting words into Jesus mouth (words). Jesus did not say “I am the first of those resurected from the dead” in this verse. Please do not add words that Jesus did not speak. He clearly identifies Himself as the First and the Last, and in other verses in this same book, this “the First and the Last” person indentifies Himself as The Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End:
Revelation 22:13 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
Also in Revelation 1:10-11:
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,
11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,”and then John continues the description of the source of the voice, and then this Person again said in verse 17:
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.
18 “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.So, IT IS VERY CLEAR that the same person is identifying Himself as the First and the Last, and the Alpha and the Omega, “who was dead and alive forevermore”, which CANNOT BE but Jesus Christ.
If you read these verses carefully and with an open mind, you will see this. There is no need to twist it.
Besides, Peter and Paul also acknowledge that Jesus is God:
Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
2Peeter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
So, if the two greatest apostles acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is God, why should we not?
June 14, 2016 at 7:30 am#814842NickHassanParticipantHi Togel,
Did you not know that God dwells in and speaks through Jesus Christ?
June 14, 2016 at 12:10 pm#814846TogelParticipantHi Nick,
Yes, I think so.
It is perhaps a tough thing to understand indeed.
Christ taught that God is Spirit (John 4:24). So, logically, the body of Jesus is not God, because it is not spirit, but the Spirit inside of Jesus must be God. But then, is God not powerful enough to turn His human body into God? I had heard a term ‘hypostatic union’ and perhaps this refers to this?
So, actually I have a question for the writer of this blog. If Jesus is the Son of God in His status, what is His essence? Is it God? or only man? I think His essence/substance is God. Son of God is only His status.
June 14, 2016 at 2:29 pm#814850NickHassanParticipantHi Togel,
Jesus is a man like us.
He was anointed with the Holy Spirit.
That Spirit worked and spoke through him. Acts 10.38
June 14, 2016 at 2:56 pm#814854TogelParticipantHi Nick,
So, you think Jesus did not exist before He was born in Bethlehem?
June 14, 2016 at 2:58 pm#814855NickHassanParticipantHi Togel,
Yes the man Jesus was conceived in his mother’s womb.
June 14, 2016 at 3:11 pm#814857TogelParticipantWhat about His spirit. You know, the Bible teaches that a man is triune, comprising body, soul, and spirit. So, before Jesus was born, how about His spirit and soul? Do you think He did not exist? Just like every other men, just like us?
June 14, 2016 at 3:19 pm#814858NickHassanParticipantHi Togel,
Yes he was body, soul and spirit as we are.
But about 30 yrs after birth he was anointed with the Holy Spirit at the Jordan.
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