Revelation 1:8 & Revelation 1:17-18

[Proclaimer]

Revelation 7 (NASB)

An Interlude

7 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. ² And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, ³ saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.”

The 144,000

⁴ And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

⁵ from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, ⁶ from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, ⁷ from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, ⁸ from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

A Multitude from the Tribulation

⁹ After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; ¹⁰ and they cry out with a loud voice, saying,

“Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”¹¹ And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, ¹² saying,

“Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.”

¹³ Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” ¹⁴ I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. ¹⁵ For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. ¹⁶ They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; ¹⁷ for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”

[Proclaimer]

Terr, read the above. You are telling me that only 144,000 are redeemed. But the above shows you are wrong. Especially read after the heading:

A Multitude from the Tribulation

[942767]

Pierre:

I don’t know how that I haven’t addressed your understanding of the scriptures.  I believe that I have done that on this and other times that we have discussed this subject.

I know that Jesus did not have any sin of his own, but he was dead, spiritually separated from God, because of the sin of the whole world.  He died for our sins, and that is why he had to be born again.  In the same way, when we confess Jesus as Lord, water baptism symbolizes our dying unto sin, being buried with him, and being raised from the dead with him.

Romans 6:

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

You apparently believe that Jesus pre-existed his birth into this world, and was the head over everything from creation, but that is not what the scriptures state.  He is head over all of creation from the time that God gave him all power over heaven and earth.  Of course, he was foreordained, and God had seen this from the beginning.  He is the image of the invisible God, and he said the following:

John 14

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Please let me know what else you want me to address relative to your beliefs.

(I believe that you should do as God has told me, and that is to always allow for the possibility that you may be wrong in your interpretation of the scriptures.)

Love in Christ,
Marty

 

[terraricca]

t8

the tribulation written in revelation 7 is related to our own personal tribulation into the name of Christ for it says that those that successfully where standing there where those that have washed their robes into the blood of Christ sacrifice ,meaning “follow jesus walk like he walked and stay faithful until the end of our life ,for all those standing there have gone past their own tribulation and so are rewarded for what they have done ,they are death and way for the resurrection ,but it does not say that they also /are redeemed from the earth right ? no

[terraricca]

Marty

you haven’t addressed my questions and so you void all the things I shown you in scriptures ,and replace them with scriptures that you carefully pick and some only in part, just to try to justify your view what the scriptures do not support ,for you do not use the whole scriptures ,

so please answer my questions for I know I am not wrong ,I can show you hundreds of scriptures from Genesis through Revelation that I am right ,

but you keep responding with partial bible quotes ,a thing Jesus never did ,but religion sects does

so again answer my questions honestly

[Proclaimer]

Could be Terr for there are many tribulations, although it does seem to be a specific tribulation as it seems to point out the great or greatest one:

These are they who have come out of the great tribulation;

[942767]

Hi Pierre:

And so,  what questions are you saying that I haven’t answered?

Show me each, and do it one by one, and quit accusing me of being dishonest.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

t8

the great tribulation is the one that all those that have believed in Jesus go through faithfully up to their death ,

[terraricca]

Marty

Paul says in Col;15 ;
1) He is the image of the invisible God ;when was he declared the image of God ? when he was first created or when he came down as a man ?
2) the firstborn over all creation.; when was Jesus created to be the first over all creation ?

verse 16 says ; For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible,; this verse shows that he was created way before creation start to be created through him right ? I believe so

verse 17 ;confirm clearly that Jesus existed at the very beginning of creation right ? I believe so

verse 18 ; talks about the Jesus church of which he his the head ;and the very reason he is the head is also for he is the first to go through death and resurrection
for it would be impossible for man to go to heaven without resurrection for the price for death must be paid first
” he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.”
not only Jesus is the first in creation he also is the first to be resurrected from the death and for the simple reason that God ” For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, ”

but why can you ask?;Paul says ;”so that in everything he(Jesus) might have the supremacy.” also in verse 19;For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,SO WHEN DID JESUS RECEIVED SUPREMACY ? AND WHAT IS IT THAT SUPREMACY INCLUDES ?

[942767]

Hi Pierre:

You say:

Paul says in Col;15 ;
1) He is the image of the invisible God ;when was he declared the image of God ? when he was first created or when he came down as a man ?
2) the firstborn over all creation.; when was Jesus created to be the first over all creation ?

Jesus was not created, but he was born into this world as an infant child, a man child, and his spirit, his character, was formed as he obeyed God, His Father even unto death on the cross. And so, the answer to your first question, is that he was the “image of the invisible God when He was a man. The answer to your second question is that God foreseen from the beginning of time that a specific point in time He would send forth His Son whom He would exalt to his current position as head over all of creation. He did not pre-exist his birth into this world as a person.

He was the express image of the invisible God when he was here on earth, and continues to be the image of the image of the invisible God at the right hand of God.  God is invisible, and so, the only way that we can see God is through the life that He lives.  We see Him through His creation, and we have seen Him through the life that Jesus lived and lives in obedience to His Word.  Jesus stated that we have seen the him we have seen the Father, and then he states that is the Father doing the works through him.

Here is the scripture:

John 14:

. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves

He was the “firstborn” of every creature when He was born of God. He was not created, he was conceived by the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary, and then after he lived a life in perfect obedience to God unto death on the cross, he was born again from the dead, and declared to be the Son of God through the Spirit of Holiness.

And so, he was the firstborn of God, and now we also have been born of God.

Romans:

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Pierre, I hope that I have answered these two questions to your satisfaction.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Pierre, to continue:

You say:

verse 16 says ; For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible,; this verse shows that he was created way before creation start to be created through him right ? I believe so

The “him” that verse 16 speaks of is defined in the previous verse when it says:

Col 1:

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

He is the “last Adam”, the one who through the life that he lived in perfect obedience to God even unto death of the cross, and the one who shed his blood for the sins of the whole world. That is the “him” that verse 16 is talking about. God created every thing that he created with the last Adam in mind, and so, He states in Genesis 1:26 “let us make man in our image”, but there is a “first Adam” who is like God in that he has a mind, a will, and emotions, and then there is that “Last Adam” who is the express image of God’s person, through the life that he lived and lives in obedience to God’s Word.

You say:

verse 17 ;confirm clearly that Jesus existed at the very beginning of creation right ? I believe so

(No, He did not exist as the person that the previous verses are describing at the beginning of creation, but he was foreordained to be that person from the beginning. He was in the existed in the heart of God as that person through whom He would fulfill His purpose for all of His creation.)

Ephesians 1:

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

You ask:

SO WHEN DID JESUS RECEIVED SUPREMACY ? AND WHAT IS IT THAT SUPREMACY INCLUDES ?

It includes all power over heaven and earth, no man can come to the Father, except through him. He is the judge of the living and the dead, and he is God’s heir, and we are joint heirs with him only because God had foreordained it to be this way. He is the only one who can claim to have obeyed God without sin.

He received this supremacy when he completed his ministry on earth.

(Pierre, I hope that I have answered all of your questions, but if not, ask again until we cover every thing.)

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Marty

so Paul lied in his letters and so is Jesus in John 17 ,Paul says that nothing was created without him ” but you say that this is not true for Jesus came after all things were created ,and so cannot have supremacy over nothing ,

now Jesus was not born through the holy spirit for scriptures says that it was the power of God that came over Mary,

the holy spirit is not a being ,but the truth of God’s word this is why it says “the holy spirit of truth ”

we are different in the interpretation ;you follow man made interpretation while I follow the scriptures interpretation ,in this way we are separated like wheat and tare ,
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began

[terraricca]

Marty

Jesus spoke to his father way before Paul ever became a apostle ,so your connection seem more an opinion than a truth ,

Jesus had a glory before he came down and before the world even was created (John17;5)

you haven’t said over what things did he received supremacy ?

you say he received supremacy at his death ,but if he was only born of Mary how can he have supremacy over all creation ?

and we all know creation did not start with Jesus becoming a man if so May would have supremacy over him ,for she would be first ,or before him ,

also Psalm 49;7 says that no man can save another so if Jesus was a man born of man he could not save anyone not even himself ,

so to me the truth is that Mary was a surrogate mother to the son of God ,

you say that Jesus was “PREORDAINED” but there are no scriptures for this ,this is just another opinion

Col;1;12 says that the “partakers and inheritance ” are in the light of the saints what is the truth of God’s will ,

so far you have given me you opinions on what you believe to be the truth from scriptures but you haven presented any real prove that your opinions are the truth of God ,

the truth has to align with all the scriptures not verses + opinions = errors but scriptures + scriptures = truth

[942767]

Hi Pierre:

You say:
so Paul lied in his letters and so is Jesus in John 17 ,Paul says that nothing was created without him ” but you say that this is not true for Jesus came after all things were created ,and so cannot have supremacy over nothing

No, Paul did not lie, but you are misinterpreting what is being said. Did you even read what I answered to your questions? God created all thing knowing that in Jesus Christ He would fulfill His plan for His creation, and that is what is meant by saying that “nothing was created without him”. I have already shown you by the scriptures that the “him” of which the scriptures speak of is “is the man Jesus, who through the Word of God is the “express image of God’s person”.

You say:

now Jesus was not born through the holy spirit for scriptures says that it was the power of God that came over Mary,

Luke 1:

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

You say:

the holy spirit is not a being ,but the truth of God’s word this is why it says “the holy spirit of truth ”

The Holy Spirit is “God’s Spirit”, no not a separate being, that is why Jesus calls God his Father, and not the Holy Spirit, and yes, the Holy Spirit is “the Spirit of truth” that proceeds from the Father. It is His Spirit, just as you have a spirit.

1 Co. 2:
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

You say:

we are different in the interpretation ;you follow man made interpretation while I follow the scriptures interpretation ,in this way we are separated like wheat and tare ,
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began

(We definitely have a different interpretation of the scriptures, but I will not be the judge for that is not my function. I will let the Lord judge between you and me, and be the one who determines who is teaching the truth)

The following scripture speaks of that which was foreordained from the beginning of creation. He has been glorified now after fulfilling the ministry that God have him to fulfill on earth. God has highly exalted him to the position that he holds at His right hand. He also speaks of giving us the glory that God has given him.

John 17:

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

The portion of the verse above that I have highlighted explains why he stated that he had the glory in God’s presence before the world began.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Marty

what is the glory of Christ ?
what is the glory that Jesus give to his apostles ?

what is the holy spirit ?
that we must worship God in spirit
now your scriptures 24 so Jesus was loved before the foundation of the world but Jesus was not there ?
and he had glory from the father but was not there ?

everything was created through him ,but he was not there at creation ?

nothing was created without him ,but Jesus was not there ?

Jesus said he came down from heaven but you say he never was in heaven ?

John 1;14 the world was created through him but he was not there when it was created ?

scriptures says in John 3;24 that we have to worship God in spirit and truth ? what does this mean ?

you should read the song of Mary

what does it mean to be guided by the spirit of God ?

what does it mean to have a wicked spirit ?

before Abraham I am ? was this a lie ?

you say that Jesus would fulfill all things for God’s creation ;; but this is not what scriptures says , the part of Jesus fulfilling the law and become the lamb was only one part of Jesus work ,this decision was made when Adam sinned (Gen 3;15)
what you try to say that way before God start to create the angels (heavenly beings)Jesus was not there and so he was not there when Adam was created either ,and yet scriptures says clearly “NOT ONE THING WAS CREATED WITHOUT HIM “(Jesus)what do you think NOTHING” means

you also did not address PSALM 49;7 “no man can save another “from death

but scriptures says he has (Jesus) supremacy over all creation visible or invisible to us this would include the angels but you say he was never there in heaven then how can he have supremacy ? what do you think supremacy means ? does it include partial ?(we know that God has supremacy over Jesus the son)

where does Jesus sits ? Jesus was made a little lower than the angels to fulfill God’s glory where was he before he was made lower than the angels ?

[942767]

Marty

what is the glory of Christ ?
what is the glory that Jesus give to his apostles ?

(The glory that He gave Christ, is eternal life in a Spiritual body, and exalted him to his right hand to rule over heaven and earth, and He has given him a Kingdom, and made him to be the judge of the living and the dead. The Apostles have not received anything as yet but will receive the glory he said he has given them in the resurrection. Can’t you see that this is prophetic, just as what he said relative to his glory that he had with God before the world was. He said that in the resurrection the Apostles would sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. Of course, the will receive eternal life in a spiritual body, and will be joint heirs with Christ. The promise is also to him who overcomes. Read the book of revelation relative to him that overcometh.)

what is the holy spirit ?

(I already showed you by the scriptures 1 Co. 2, that the Holy Spirit is God’s Spirit.)
that we must worship God in spirit
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

(It means that in order for anyone to worship God they must be in a relationship with Him by having been born again, with the Holy Spirit dwelling within, and they must be in the body of Christ, obeying the commandments that came from God through His Son Jesus Christ.)

now your scriptures 24 so Jesus was loved before the foundation of the world but Jesus was not there ?

(I already told you that he was foreordained, and so, he was in the heart of the Father from the beginning)

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

I was not there with him in the beginning, but the scriptures state that God foreknew who would be saved from the beginning. Read about how God knew Jeremiah in the womb, or he knew about how he would deliver Israel by the hand of Cyrus.
and he had glory from the father but was not there ?

(This was foreordained. It was a done deal, and so, he had it from the beginning)

everything was created through him ,but he was not there at creation ?

(The same answer as I have given you above. He was foreordained. He was in the heart of the Father)

nothing was created without him ,but Jesus was not there ?

(It is the same answer that has been given to you already)

Jesus said he came down from heaven but you say he never was in heaven ?

(He did come down from heaven. He was conceived by the Holy Ghost, which is God’s Spirit that comes from God whose throne is in heaven, in the womb of the virgin Mary, and so his flesh came from heaven in this manner. His spirit was formed by God in Him by the Word that came from God who was dwelling within Him, and speaking to humanity through him. As he stated, when the disciples were questioning what he meant by eating his flesh and drinking his blood, ” John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” A person is defined by the life that he lives, and Jesus obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the Cross. The Word of God came from Heaven, and so, that is the way that he came down from heaven)

John 1;14 the world was created through him but he was not there when it was created ?

(I already answered this question above.)

scriptures says in John 3;24 that we have to worship God in spirit and truth ? what does this mean ?
( I already answered this question above)
you should read the song of Mary
(Why?)
what does it mean to be guided by the spirit of God ?

(It means that the Spirit of God dwelling within you will lead you to all truths in His Word)

what does it mean to have a wicked spirit ?

(It means that you are obeying the devil.)

before Abraham I am ? was this a lie ?

(No, not a lie, I have already stated that he was foreordained and in the heart of God before God began to create the world. He said:John 8 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.)

you say that Jesus would fulfill all things for God’s creation ;; but this is not what scriptures says , the part of Jesus fulfilling the law and become the lamb was only one part of Jesus work ,this decision was made when Adam sinned (Gen 3;15)
what you try to say that way before God start to create the angels (heavenly beings)Jesus was not there and so he was not there when Adam was created either ,and yet scriptures says clearly “NOT ONE THING WAS CREATED WITHOUT HIM “(Jesus)what do you think NOTHING” means

You keep going over the same thing again and again. I already told you that he was foreordained and in the heart of God before God began to create everything in the heavens and the earth. (Ephesians 19 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
you also did not address

PSALM 49;7 “no man can save another “from death
(No man born of the sperm of man can save another from death, because all men born of the sperm of man have sinned. Jesus was not born of the sperm of man, but was God’s gift to humanity to be the propitiation for the sins of the world. Jesus could have sinned but did not, and because he lives forever to make intercession for his people, we can also overcome sin and death.

but scriptures says he has (Jesus) supremacy over all creation visible or invisible to us this would include the angels but you say he was never there in heaven then how can he have supremacy ? what do you think supremacy means ? does it include partial ?(we know that God has supremacy over Jesus the son)

where does Jesus sits ? Jesus was made a little lower than the angels to fulfill God’s glory where was he before he was made lower than the angels ?

[942767]

you also did not address

PSALM 49;7 “no man can save another “from death

(No man born of the sperm of man can save another from death because all men born of the sperm of man have sinned. Jesus was not born of the sperm of man, but was God’s gift to humanity to be the propitiation for the sins of mankind. He has overcome sin and death, and he has said that no man can come to the Father but by him.

but scriptures says he has (Jesus) supremacy over all creation visible or invisible to us this would include the angels but you say he was never there in heaven then how can he have supremacy ? what do you think supremacy means ? does it include partial ?(we know that God has supremacy over Jesus the son)

(And so, he has supremacy over heaven and earth from the time that God gave this power to him. His supremacy includes the angels. No one has supremacy over God.)

where does Jesus sits ? Jesus was made a little lower than the angels to fulfill God’s glory where was he before he was made lower than the angels ?

(He sits at the right hand of God. This is speaking of Jesus as a man who was a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. Why does he have to have been somewhere else for this scripture to be as is stated? He tasted death for every man. The angels did not have to experience death)

[Proclaimer]

the great tribulation is the one that all those that have believed in Jesus go through faithfully up to their death ,

Where is your proof?
and
What are the other tribulations?

[terraricca]

t8

well the great tribulation said that all who came out of it are those that have washed their robes into the blood of Christ ,

and i only know one more distress/tribulation in 70 AD

what does it mean to wash our robe into the blood of Christ other than accept him as our lord and walk as he walked ,
scriptures says no longer to conform to this world ,and make all efforts to be saved

[terraricca]

Marty

I get back to you later but what I have understood of you is that God had a dream in his heart and it was Jesus ,dream what you call “foreordained ”

my questions were never the same but you chose to give the same answer to it so your key word for most questions about Jesus is the word “foreordained ”

I will look at it with my microscope

[Author]

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