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T8…..as I said it takes “no wisdom”, to think John was speaking from the stand point of the fourth Roman kingdom. That’s what nearly everyone thinks, and that’s the problem, I have shown you clearly that John was spritually transported into the Day of the Lord, Even gave you the scripture that clearly shows, he was speaking from that timeline Rev 1:10. The time when the Seventh and eight kingdoms would appear on this earth. It’s at the end of the Sixth kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s. Not before .
I have made a very strong case for what I am telling you all. If you follow the time line I have told you, everything fall right into place. T8 God has revealed it to me, and I know it is apsolute right. Sorry you can’t see it, you not alone.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Jodi, if you are following this please read read what I have written on Rev 17 and Daniel 2. I would like very much to see if you understand what I am saying.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
It is to believe that you have not Well read Revelation 17
We are at the time of judgment
PROOF
REVELATION 17
Then one of the seven angels who held the seven coupes came, and he spoke to me, saying: Come, I showed you THE JUDGMENT of the great prostitute who sits on the great waters.
THIS IS NOT THE FINAL JUDGMENT BUT THE JUDGMENT PRECEDING THE RETURN OF CHRIST IT IS TO SAY AN INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT.
For the time has come when JUDGMENT must begin with the house of God: and if it begins first with us, what will be the end of those who do not obey the Gospel of God? 1PETTER 4:17
JUDGMENT INVESTIGATION
1-BY THE DEAD, 2- THE LIVING
END OF GRACE TIME
THE LAST 7 WOUNDS
RETURN OF CHRIST INTO GLORY:
THE BAD ARE DESTROYED AND SAINTED GO TO HEAVEN WITH JESUS
SATAN IS CHAINED
MILLENIUM WHICH IS THE TIME OF THE JUDGMENT OF THE LOST IN THE EYES OF MARTYRS (REVELATION 20)
SATAN IS RELEASED / THE LOST RETURN TO LIFE
THE VERDICT OF JUDGMENT IS DELIVERED AT THE END OF THE MILLENIUM
THE JUDGMENT IS EXECUTED
GOD CREATES NEW HEAVENS AND A NEW EARTH WHERE HABIT JUSTICE
Asking Jodi to give you a hand is the worst thing to do because people will lose interest in the topic when she starts copying, pasting, and editing essays among the discussion where we try to keep it around one point per post.
Gene, I don’t know how you can mistake this for a perspective in another time. Look closely at the language.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
There ARE seven kings overall and five ARE fallen and one is…
It’s from the perspective of the time of the prophecy was spoken
Clearly, John is being shown the big picture. When it says ‘and the woman you sawest… ‘ it is past tense because he saw the vision of the woman and then he is told something about her afterward. It has nothing to do with John being transported to a different year. Rather he is present in his time and is shown the future and past but from a God who is not even subject to time. But certainly, he is taught that from where he stands, five have fallen, one is, and one is yet to come.
If you come up with a new theory that puts Rome as the sixth Empire from the perspective of Revelation, then I will critique it. But for now, your current theory is a not even a candidate.
T8……Rome is the fourth kingdom that rose up (as a mountain rises) on this earth. It was the legs of Iron , one leg was defeated by the Germatic tribes of Europe and the other leg was defeated by the Ottoman Turks. And in its place rose up the fifth kingdom of Iron and Clay. The one we are now in. It fits exactly what Daniel said in Dan 2:26. Now what kingdom comes after the fifth kingdom , is it not the Sixth kingdom ? Then what comes after the Sixth kingdom is it not the seventh and eighth kingdoms.
The wisdom of the prophesy is to understand that John was transported by the Spirit “to the day of the Lord” rev 1:10, and was speaking from the standpoint of end of the sixth kingdom period , and after that time comes the seventh and eights kingdom and last just for a short while 3 1/2 years. Then God Almighty comes and Jesus turns his kingdom over to him. Just as scripture says, and thats the end of it all.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
T8…..I believe Jodi has the spirit of God and she is able to confirm and perhaps explained it better then me. This is a very important thing and maybe I’m just not explaining it right, but I know beyond a doubt it is the truth. That’s why I ask if she would take a look at this, it is not to just get someone on my side, but for clarification. I believe if I could explain this right you and others can see it, because it’s so important. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
T8……Rome is the fourth kingdom that rose up…
Sorry Gene. For me, scripture wins this one.
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come;
T8. …..if five are fallen and one is, that makes Six , can you see that? It couldn’t be talking about the fourth kingdom of the Roman Empire. Or the fifth kingdom of Iron and Clay either.
Daniel spoke of six kingdoms, in Daniel 2 :26 the head of Gold, the chest and arms of Silver, the belly of Brass, the legs of Iron, the feet of Iron and Clay, then comes the kingdom that struck the feet of Iron and clay, that is the kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s. And after that comes the seventh and eighth at the end of the sixth. Common sense T8 should tell you that.
Did you look up Rev 1: 10 yet? , it clearly shows the John was spiritually transported to the , “day of the Lord”. That’s the time he was speaking from T8.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
T8. …..if five are fallen and one is, that makes Six , can you see that? It couldn’t be talking about the fourth kingdom of the Roman Empire. Or the fifth kingdom of Iron and Clay either.
Exactly. Are you starting to get it now?
Daniel spoke of six kingdoms, in Daniel 2 :26 the head of Gold, the chest and arms of Silver, the belly of Brass, the legs of Iron, the feet of Iron and Clay, then comes the kingdom that struck the feet of Iron and clay, that is the kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s. And after that comes the seventh and eighth at the end of the sixth. Common sense T8 should tell you that.
Okay, you still don’t get it. Daniel places the legs of iron (Rome) as the fourth metal / kingdom.
So why is Rome the fourth with Daniel and sixth with John?
Too easy. Because Daniel’s vision was the same vision that the king of Babylon saw. The vision starts with the King of Babylon because the King of Babylon had the vision. Whereas John sees the bigger picture. He sees what happened before the King of Babylon.
Gene
Revelation 1
[10] I was in the Spirit on the
Lord’s day, and heard behind me
a great voice, as of a trumpet,
If you keep reading the text of chapter 1, you’ll see that John is not
transported to the time of the sixth kingdom as you
believe.It was the Sabbath day that
John was in the Spirit”
Compare with Revelation 17
“So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: “
It is not the same thing
Revelation 17 show the whore’judgment
For John it was a futur time
when” 5 are fallen ” and “one is”
God bless
Berean……yes the first five were fallen and one is in the future at the time of when the prophesy was speaking, it was not at the time John was given the prophesy. You need to do what I ask T8 to do , check out the word “en” used in Rev 1:10, you will find it means John was indeed transported to that time period. He was transported to the Day of the Lord in time. It is not saying He c was in the sprit on the Sabbath, however it could have happened on a sabbath day, but non the less he certainly was transported in spirit to the day of the Lord and was speaking from that time point.
Why do you think it takes a mind that has wisdom to understand means in Rev 17 , it certanly is not to think that John was speaking from the time of the Roman Empire, that was the Fourth kingdom period, the fifth and sixth had not even come when he was given the Revolution. He was transported in time by spirit to the Day of the Lord. That is the Sixth kingdom period of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s. If you can’t see that then you lack the wisdom to. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
T8……No John sees exactly what Daniel 2:24 says, there in lies your problem you believe the two prophesies are different, thats the reason you will never come to a true understanding of what Rev 17 is saying. It is Daniel that shows us the progressive “BABYLOIAN ” type of World rulling kingdoms . If you can’t tie that in with Rev 17, you are simply not even in the ballpark. IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours ……….gene
Gene
You say
yes the first five were fallen and one is in the future at the time of when the prophesy was speaking, it was not at the time John was given the prophesy.
Gene
Let’s be clear.
1) John receives the vision at the time of the Roman Empire
2) he is carried away in the spirit when the beast and the whore is in the wilderness.
TO THIS SUBJECT John says:
the beast that thou sawest “was” and is no more…
THE BEAST THAT HE SAW IN THE WILDERNESS IS NO MORE.
THE ANGEL SAID TO HIM (V.1)
COME I WILL SHOW YOU THE JUDGMENT OF THE WHORE WHO SITS ON THE BEAST…
DEDUCTION
JUDGMENT IS SHOWN WHEN THE BEAST IS NO MORE.
NOW, WHILE THE BEAST IS NO MORE, IT IS THE HEAD THAT HAS DEFEATED THE HEAD OF THE BEAST IN THE BOTTOMLESS, WHICH IS THE HEAD THAT IS IN POWER (SIXTH HEAD).
5 ARE FALLEN:
1) BABYLONE
2) MEDO PERSE
3. GREECE
4) IMPERIAL ROME
5) ROME PAPAL (538-1798)=1260 years.
6) After 1798 THE PAPAL FIFTH HEAD BEAST IS NOT AND IT IS THE SIXTH HEAD THAT EXISTS.
7) AND THE SEVENTH HEAD WHEN IT COMES WILL LAST A SHORT TIME AND PREPARE THE WAY FOR THE EIGHTH KING.
SEVENTH = USA
8) EIGHTH KING = PAPACY
9) END OF GRACE PERIOD
10) THE LAST SEVEN PLAGUES
11) JESUS RETURNS
FIRST RESURRECTION/ SAINTS GO TO HEAVEN WITH JESUS
12) MILLENNIUM IN HEAVEN/JUDGMENT OF THE WICKED
13) RETURN TO EARTH
RESURRECTION OF THE LOSTEXECUTION OF JUDGMENT IN THE LAKE OF FIRE AND BRIMSTONE.
14) NEW HEAVENS AND A NEW EARTH WHEREIN DWELLETH RIGHTEOUSNESS.
ALLELOUIA
.
Blessings 😊
Berean……yes the first five were fallen and one is in the future at the time of when the prophesy was speaking, it was not at the time John was given the prophesy.
Wrong Gene. Look at the words you need to add to get your conclusion.
It simply shows us the whole beast which is not a particular day, but spans thousands of years. Thus, ‘one is’ is not pointing to a future date, but is simply what it says. That is, the one that is current.
Simple. You and Jodi always add words because you need too in order to arrive at your many weird conclusions which as a rule seem to always contradict the written text.
The truth is given to the innocent not to those who profess or think they are wise. The latter are deceived and believe false conclusions because their pride leads them astray.
Rome is the sixth head. It is written and even a child can see that. It takes men who think they are wise to change that.
My advice is to be like little children. That is, be innocent and don’t be worldly wise and complicated. Keep it simple and be humble.
This is how the wicked stumble. They cannot humble themselves to the level of truth. They want complexity and want to be arbiters of the complex theories they create which are really lies They want the power that comes with having so-called special knowledge. It makes them feel important and special. They are in it for their own glory and the truth matters little compared with personal glory they think they can gain by owning a theory and applying their own rules so as to become exclusive.
And at time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
T8
You say:
“Rome is the sixth head. It is written and even a child can see that. It takes men who think they are wise to change that.”
Sorry, T8, but that’s not true.
For when John has the vision in chapter 17, it is about the last fallen head (the fifth), the one who is in the bottomless and is also described in Revelation 13 and who has
reigned for 1 2 6 0 years.John has to do with the fifth head of the beast in chapter 17, the one on whom the whore sits whose judgment is shown to John.
On the other hand,
Each kingdom must overcome the existing head to become a head of the beast.
Example: The Medes and Persians defeated the Babylonians in the time of Belshatsar.
Question
Has Assyria defeated Egypt
to become a head?Have a good day.
Gene
If you’re not trying to understand Daniel 7 and 8…
in relation to Daniel 2 and
Revelation 12, 13, 14, 17…
you just can’t see
further than the fourth kingdom.The feet of the statue of Daniel 2
are developed in Daniel 77:23 And he spake thus unto me: The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom which shall be upon the earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, which shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
>>>>>here begin the feet of the
statue >>>>>>>>>>> in verse 247:24 The ten horns are ten kings that shall arise out of this kingdom.
And another shall rise up after them, and shall be different from the first, and shall bring down three kings.7:25 And he shall speak words against the most High, and shall oppress the saints of the most High, and shall hope to change times and laws: and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
7:26 And there shall come judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away from him, and he shall be destroyed and destroyed for ever.
7:27 And the kingdom, and the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms which are under heaven, shall be given unto the people of the saints of the most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers shall serve and obey him.
The ten horns have divided Rome,
Then the little horn rose.
It gained dominion over all
the churches of Christendom and then gradually the political power
… about the kings who divided the empire…
Roman.
Thus was formed the papal Roman Empire which lasted 1260 years.God bless.
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