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Quote (Ed J @ July 16 2012,01:56) Quote (Stu @ July 16 2012,01:27) No picture of a god on the front of the bible. Why not? Stuart
Hi Stuart,They didn't have photography, but for about the last 100 years.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Some of the most brillant and beatiful artwork is painted Edj, wondering how long that has been around.Quote (Ed J @ July 16 2012,01:56) Quote (Stu @ July 16 2012,01:27) No picture of a god on the front of the bible. Why not? Stuart
Hi Stuart,They didn't have photography, but for about the last 100 years.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
OK, that's a reasonable explanation up until the 19th Century. But why not these days?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 16 2012,14:23) Quote (Ed J @ July 16 2012,01:56) Quote (Stu @ July 16 2012,01:27) No picture of a god on the front of the bible. Why not? Stuart
Hi Stuart,They didn't have photography, but for about the last 100 years.
God bless
Ed J
OK, that's a reasonable explanation up until the 19th Century. But why not these days?Stuart
Hi Stuart,We don't know if God is photographable.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2012,02:53) Quote (Stu @ July 15 2012,00:02) I asked why the bible doesn't have a picture of the deity on the front cover, in the manner of Origin of Species or other books dealing with things that really exist.
Exodus 33:20
But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”Deuteronomy 4
15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape…………John 1:18
No one has ever seen God………John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God…1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God……….Does this answer your question, Stu? Human beings cannot see God, therefore we don't know what He looks like, therefore we would not be able to draw or form an image of Him – even if it wasn't forbidden for us to do so.
But on a side note, thousands of people have seen Jesus, ergo, Jesus is not the invisible God whom no man has ever seen.
Does the fact that we are not, in human form, able to see our Creator mean He doesn't exist?
None of this answers my question.My question asks for either a photograph of the deity on the front of the bible, or a consistent and plausible explanation for why that is not possible. Tim has already shown that you are basically cherry-picking scripture (another logical fallacy), and that you are willing to embark on an exercise in apology that would contradict the views of a biblical literalist, which was exactly the point I made earlier, if you remember. Christianity doesn't have a straight story.
When it came to whether you can see individual atoms with the naked eye, it was the case that any physicist in the world would give you exactly the same explanation: yes you can see atoms, no you probably cannot resolve them as individual particles with your eye because of the resolving power of your lens at the wavelengths of light you see.
When it comes to why we cannot see god, there is no explanation at all.
“…you cannot see my face…”
WHY not?
No one has ever seen God…
An impossible claim to make. If we are going to allow that, then it is exactly as valid to claim that no one has ever seen god because gods definitely don't exist. They are both bald assertions, neither any better than the other.
As for people seeing Jesus, there is no eyewitness account of Jesus in existence, and you are really inviting trouble, given that you haven't addressed Tim's claim that Jesus is a blue-eyed blond, a man who would look particularly striking in ancient Palestine.
I lament the state of your intellectual capacity Mike. I'm sure you are no idiot, but your brain seems adapted to the activity of reading, swallowing and regurgitating religious fantasy stories without critical thought.
Do you have anything to make us think? Or are we condemned to the low-grade activity of mocking the snake oil salesman?
Stuart
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2012,10:42) Quote (TimothyVI @ July 15 2012,12:52) ^^^^ Then why did all of these people lie about seeing God?
Genesis 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.Judges 13:22
And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
Hosea 12
2 The LORD has a charge to bring against Judah;
he will punish Jacob according to his ways
and repay him according to his deeds.
3 In the womb he grasped his brother’s heel;
as a man he struggled with God.
4 He struggled with the angel and overcame him;
he wept and begged for his favor.Jacob did not wrestle with or see God. He wrestled with and saw an angel of God. Many times in the OT, the angel God sent is called by the name YHWH, because he is a vice-regent of YHWH. You'll notice that even though Hosea knows it was an angel Jacob struggled against, he still says in verse 3 that Jacob struggled against “God”, or possibly “a god” (as angels were sometimes called).
It is similar with Judges 13:22. It is clear from verse 21 that Manoah realized it was an angel of God. It is hard to tell if, in verse 22, he is saying “we have seen God” – applying the title “God” to God's vice-regent……………. or if he meant “we have seen a god” – referring to the mighty spiritual being they had seen.
Shall I continue with some of the other verses you posted?
O.K. Mike.
So you are telling me that Jacob and Manoah were liars.Did Moses lie as well when he said that he spoke with God face to face?
Tim
I'm telling you that the various vice-regents sent BY Jehovah in the scriptures were often addressed as “Jehovah” – even though it is clear from the context that the listener didn't really think Jehovah Himself was standing in front of them.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Exodus 3
2 There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush.4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush
6 Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.”
Was Jehovah Himself in the bush, Tim? Or was it a vice-regent OF Jehovah? According to Hosea, did Jacob wrestle with God, or an angel of God? According to Judges 13, did Manoah realize he had seen God, or an angel of God?
Are you getting the picture, yet?
Quote (Stu @ July 15 2012,21:38) None of this answers my question.
Actually, those scriptures DIRECTLY answer your question. We don't know what God looks like because we are not able to see God. Therefore, we cannot make a drawing of Him or take a photograph of Him to put on the front of our Bibles.I don't have time for games, Stu. There is no picture of God because no human being knows what God looks like. End of story.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2012,12:54) Quote (Stu @ July 15 2012,21:38) None of this answers my question.
Actually, those scriptures DIRECTLY answer your question. We don't know what God looks like because we are not able to see God. Therefore, we cannot make a drawing of Him or take a photograph of Him to put on the front of our Bibles.I don't have time for games, Stu. There is no picture of God because no human being knows what God looks like. End of story.
I accept your concession of defeat on the point, although you have a funny way of saying it.Stuart
This claim of “victory” reminds me of my wife's apology when I'm upset over something she did and I've won the argument, she'll look at me as if she's going to apologize and say “I'm sorry you're upset”.
In the twelve years I've know her, I can't recall ever hearing the words “I'm sorry” from my son's mom. She has, although, reassured me that if she ever IS wrong, she'll happily apologize.
Quote This claim of “victory” reminds me of my wife's apology when I'm upset over something she did and I've won the argument, she'll look at me as if she's going to apologize and say “I'm sorry you're upset”. Odd.
Quote In the twelve years I've know her, I can't recall ever hearing the words “I'm sorry” from my son's mom. She has, although, reassured me that if she ever IS wrong, she'll happily apologize. Even odder
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2012,13:00) Quote (princess @ July 15 2012,20:00) please do so Mike….
We must wait until Tim is done processing.
Processing what?I always thought that Moses hair went gray and face shone was due to experiencing the glory of God.
The hosea passage is the reason why the Jewish culture does not eat the thigh of any animal.
So if God cannot be seen then you really don't know what the first looked like. So the theory of evolution may no be so far off as you make it out to be.
Due to the present you visualize what humans look like now to be the image of god, being the case, the earth did not look like it did eons ago, but it changed to what we have now, and by your book both were created by god. So why would god create everything else to evolve with time and not humanity?
With the majority of christianity believing that jesus is god anyway, what about all the pics of him today?
Mike
So if God cannot be seen then you really don't know what the first looked like. So the theory of evolution may no be so far off as you make it out to be. Because you experience the first humans to look like you, with no change.
Also, while we are on the subject of change did not God change the rules of the game? Where we went from Debra being a leader of an army to women being sub servant to man.
Your faith can change by words of a demi god, the blood of a godman but man cannot due to what?
Quote (princess @ July 24 2012,19:11) So if God cannot be seen then you really don't know what the first looked like. So the theory of evolution may no be so far off as you make it out to be
God cannot be seen with human eyes, Princess. And I'm not so much against “evolution” as I am against the claim of evolutionists that all this just happened as a matter of chance with no director – as if “nothing” just decided it would be cool to evolve into other things.Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2012,12:47) Quote (princess @ July 24 2012,19:11) So if God cannot be seen then you really don't know what the first looked like. So the theory of evolution may no be so far off as you make it out to be
God cannot be seen with human eyes, Princess. And I'm not so much against “evolution” as I am against the claim of evolutionists that all this just happened as a matter of chance with no director – as if “nothing” just decided it would be cool to evolve into other things.
You could always try reading and learning.Evolution isn't a matter of “chance” and it doesn't have a director either.
The mutations are random, and the selection of the advantageous ones is non-random, and none of that needs any foresight whatever.
Reality isn't necessarily what you would like it to be.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 25 2012,17:15) Evolution isn't a matter of “chance” and it doesn't have a director either.
Evolution isn't a matter of “chance” – Evolution is a matter of “change” – Changing to believe a lie
Quote (Ed J @ July 25 2012,18:35) Quote (Stu @ July 25 2012,17:15) Evolution isn't a matter of “chance” and it doesn't have a director either.
Evolution isn't a matter of “chance” – Evolution is a matter of “change” – Changing to believe a lie
You have no substantial objection against science, all you have is chanting.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 26 2012,18:01) Quote (Ed J @ July 25 2012,18:35) Quote (Stu @ July 25 2012,17:15) Evolution isn't a matter of “chance” and it doesn't have a director either.
Evolution isn't a matter of “chance” – Evolution is a matter of “change” – Changing to believe a lie
You have no substantial objection against science, all you have is chanting.Stuart
Hi Stuart,Evolution is fiction, not Science.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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