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Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 03 2011,20:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2011,13:39) I assume that YOU are “all that you are”. Should we start calling you “they” and “them”? Do you call yourself “we”?
What I am saying is that there is a tool in language called “the Royal we” but consider also that in the truest sense God cannot be a “HE” that is also just a tool because God does not have a gender that is why it says HE made male and female in OUR IMAGE. If you think Jesus was there with HIM where is the female? But if “Our” has to do with God's attributes it would explain God speaking in that way.
BrbYou forget that it is Adam that his made in the image of God Eve was made in the image of Adam,
And Christ as made God known to all men as our FATHER not as our MOTHER
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2011,18:28) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 03 2011,20:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2011,13:39) I assume that YOU are “all that you are”. Should we start calling you “they” and “them”? Do you call yourself “we”?
What I am saying is that there is a tool in language called “the Royal we” but consider also that in the truest sense God cannot be a “HE” that is also just a tool because God does not have a gender that is why it says HE made male and female in OUR IMAGE. If you think Jesus was there with HIM where is the female? But if “Our” has to do with God's attributes it would explain God speaking in that way.
BrbYou forget that it is Adam that his made in the image of God Eve was made in the image of Adam,
And Christ as made God known to all men as our FATHER not as our MOTHER
Pierre
No the scripture says:Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.God is not a man so in all reality he cannot be called a Father or Mother except for metaphorically.
You do know that God has no gender correct? If HE had a gender HE wouldn't be GOD as a gender is a way to multiply.
God was not created nor begets like a man. God was not begat nor procreates like a man.
Try it this way Asana:
Genesis 1:27
So God created ADAM in his own image, in the image of God he created him (ADAM); male and female he created them (MANKIND).Doesn't Paul clarify this for us by pointing out that man is the one made in God's image, while woman was made in man's image? I can't put my finger on the scripture right now because I'm busy watching NFL Football.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2011,13:13) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2011,18:28) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 03 2011,20:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2011,13:39) I assume that YOU are “all that you are”. Should we start calling you “they” and “them”? Do you call yourself “we”?
What I am saying is that there is a tool in language called “the Royal we” but consider also that in the truest sense God cannot be a “HE” that is also just a tool because God does not have a gender that is why it says HE made male and female in OUR IMAGE. If you think Jesus was there with HIM where is the female? But if “Our” has to do with God's attributes it would explain God speaking in that way.
BrbYou forget that it is Adam that his made in the image of God Eve was made in the image of Adam,
And Christ as made God known to all men as our FATHER not as our MOTHER
Pierre
No the scripture says:Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.God is not a man so in all reality he cannot be called a Father or Mother except for metaphorically.
You do know that God has no gender correct? If HE had a gender HE wouldn't be GOD as a gender is a way to multiply.
God was not created nor begets like a man. God was not begat nor procreates like a man.
Bod1:Corentians 11:8
Try it
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 05 2011,17:36) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2011,13:13) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2011,18:28) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 03 2011,20:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2011,13:39) I assume that YOU are “all that you are”. Should we start calling you “they” and “them”? Do you call yourself “we”?
What I am saying is that there is a tool in language called “the Royal we” but consider also that in the truest sense God cannot be a “HE” that is also just a tool because God does not have a gender that is why it says HE made male and female in OUR IMAGE. If you think Jesus was there with HIM where is the female? But if “Our” has to do with God's attributes it would explain God speaking in that way.
BrbYou forget that it is Adam that his made in the image of God Eve was made in the image of Adam,
And Christ as made God known to all men as our FATHER not as our MOTHER
Pierre
No the scripture says:Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.God is not a man so in all reality he cannot be called a Father or Mother except for metaphorically.
You do know that God has no gender correct? If HE had a gender HE wouldn't be GOD as a gender is a way to multiply.
God was not created nor begets like a man. God was not begat nor procreates like a man.
Bod1:Corentians 11:8
Try it
Pierre
1 Corinthians 11:8-9New International Version (NIV)
8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
This has nothing to do with the image a female was made in it is just explaining what she came out of but still in all every other human being came from woman(Out of Woman) understand so if woman isn't made in the Image of God then none of us can be.
I was thinking of verse 7, but good job, Pierre.
For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2011,08:36) I was thinking of verse 7, but good job, Pierre. For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
This is an opinion on Paul's part not The Word of GOD2 Samuel 15:30
English Standard Version (ESV)
30But David went up the ascent of the Mount of Olives, weeping as he went, barefoot and with his head covered. And all the people who were with him covered their heads, and they went up, weeping as they went.
Esther 6:12
Then Mordecai returned to the king’s gate. But Haman hurried to his house, mourning and with his head covered.Also why would God tell the priests to cover their head?
Exodus 28:4
King James Version (KJV)
4And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
Also Crowns cover the head of Kings like David and Solomon so it seems that Paul wasn't speaking the Word ogf God just his viewpoint which he admis he does often
1 Corinthians 7:12
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.Paul is simply giving his opinion,
1 Corinthians 11:14
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?Does that even make any sense nature teaches the opposite
many male creatures have long hair such as The Lion whp's pride is his hair.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 06 2011,11:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2011,08:36) I was thinking of verse 7, but good job, Pierre. For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
This is an opinion on Paul's part not The Word of GOD
Hi BD,The Apostle Peter, Jesus right hand man believed that (Shaool) the Apostle Paul's epistles to be Scripture. …why do you believe differently?
“Even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:15-16)B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 06 2011,18:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2011,08:36) I was thinking of verse 7, but good job, Pierre. For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
This is an opinion on Paul's part not The Word of GOD2 Samuel 15:30
English Standard Version (ESV)
30But David went up the ascent of the Mount of Olives, weeping as he went, barefoot and with his head covered. And all the people who were with him covered their heads, and they went up, weeping as they went.
Esther 6:12
Then Mordecai returned to the king’s gate. But Haman hurried to his house, mourning and with his head covered.Also why would God tell the priests to cover their head?
Exodus 28:4
King James Version (KJV)
4And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
Also Crowns cover the head of Kings like David and Solomon so it seems that Paul wasn't speaking the Word ogf God just his viewpoint which he admis he does often
1 Corinthians 7:12
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.Paul is simply giving his opinion,
1 Corinthians 11:14
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?Does that even make any sense nature teaches the opposite
many male creatures have long hair such as The Lion whp's pride is his hair.
BodAre you now lower your self to the level of beasts ?
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 06 2011,15:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 06 2011,11:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2011,08:36) I was thinking of verse 7, but good job, Pierre. For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
This is an opinion on Paul's part not The Word of GOD
Hi BD,The Apostle Peter, Jesus right hand man believed that (Shaool) the Apostle Paul's epistles to be Scripture. …why do you believe differently?
“Even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:15-16)B'shem
YHVH
11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.It's funny you don't accept Paul as only saying his opinion because he also says there is no inequality in Christ so which is it? They can't both be facts one has to be an opinion
Sampson was a prophet with long hair so was Sampson some sort of dishonour to God?
This is what I am talking about reason and religion now what I have told you is clear and reasonable so for what reason would you dispute reality and actual scripture
1 Corinthians 11
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to himJudges 16
17 So he told her everything. “No razor has ever been used on my head,” he said, “because I have been a Nazirite dedicated to God from my mother’s womb. If my head were shaved, my strength would leave me, and I would become as weak as any other man.”
18 When Delilah saw that he had told her everything, she sent word to the rulers of the Philistines, “Come back once more; he has told me everything.” So the rulers of the Philistines returned with the silver in their hands. 19 After putting him to sleep on her lap, she called for someone to shave off the seven braids of his hair, and so began to subdue him.[c] And his strength left him.
Numbers 6
5All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.
There is your proof so be reasonable and accept that Paul is preaching his opinion in this matter otherwise God would have made Eve cover her head
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2011,03:39) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 06 2011,15:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 06 2011,11:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2011,08:36) I was thinking of verse 7, but good job, Pierre. For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
This is an opinion on Paul's part not The Word of GOD
Hi BD,The Apostle Peter, Jesus right hand man believed that (Shaool) the Apostle Paul's epistles to be Scripture. …why do you believe differently?
“Even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:15-16)B'shem
YHVH
11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.It's funny you don't accept Paul as only saying his opinion because he also says there is no inequality in Christ so which is it? They can't both be facts one has to be an opinion
Sampson was a prophet with long hair so was Sampson some sort of dishonour to God?
This is what I am talking about reason and religion now what I have told you is clear and reasonable so for what reason would you dispute reality and actual scripture
1 Corinthians 11
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to himJudges 16
17 So he told her everything. “No razor has ever been used on my head,” he said, “because I have been a Nazirite dedicated to God from my mother’s womb. If my head were shaved, my strength would leave me, and I would become as weak as any other man.”
18 When Delilah saw that he had told her everything, she sent word to the rulers of the Philistines, “Come back once more; he has told me everything.” So the rulers of the Philistines returned with the silver in their hands. 19 After putting him to sleep on her lap, she called for someone to shave off the seven braids of his hair, and so began to subdue him.[c] And his strength left him.
Numbers 6
5All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.
There is your proof so be reasonable and accept that Paul is preaching his opinion in this matter otherwise God would have made Eve cover her head
Hi BD,So, let me get this straight…
It's the Apostle Peter's opinion (according to BD),
that (Shaool) the Apostle Paul's epistles are scripture;
but they are merely (according to BD) the Apostle Paul's opinion. …did I get it right, is this what you believe?…please no speeches, just answer the question; OK?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2011,18:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2011,08:36) I was thinking of verse 7, but good job, Pierre. For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
This is an opinion on Paul's part not The Word of GOD
Hi Asana,I wasn't speaking of the “head covered” part, but the part where Paul says it was man who was made in God's image, not woman.
I agree with you about the other part being Paul's opinion. At least twice in scripture, he admittedly spoke from his own mind, and not from any word he heard from God.
Also, it seems odd to me that God could hear my prayers from the basement of a 28 story building…………but not if I had a hat on.
IMO, some of Paul's teachings about church rules border on what the Pharisees did by inventing their own traditions. And you make a good point that God Himself designed the priestly outfits of Aaron and his sons………complete with head coverings.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 07 2011,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2011,18:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2011,08:36) I was thinking of verse 7, but good job, Pierre. For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
This is an opinion on Paul's part not The Word of GOD
Hi Asana,I wasn't speaking of the “head covered” part, but the part where Paul says it was man who was made in God's image, not woman.
I agree with you about the other part being Paul's opinion. At least twice in scripture, he admittedly spoke from his own mind, and not from any word he heard from God.
Also, it seems odd to me that God could hear my prayers from the basement of a 28 story building…………but not if I had a hat on.
IMO, some of Paul's teachings about church rules border on what the Pharisees did by inventing their own traditions. And you make a good point that God Himself designed the priestly outfits of Aaron and his sons………complete with head coverings.
Hi Mike You really are reasonable and that really shows humility and a great desire to be right with God and not self righteous. May God continue to Bless you and keep you in HIS Righteousness
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 07 2011,04:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2011,03:39) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 06 2011,15:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 06 2011,11:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2011,08:36) I was thinking of verse 7, but good job, Pierre. For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
This is an opinion on Paul's part not The Word of GOD
Hi BD,The Apostle Peter, Jesus right hand man believed that (Shaool) the Apostle Paul's epistles to be Scripture. …why do you believe differently?
“Even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:15-16)B'shem
YHVH
11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.It's funny you don't accept Paul as only saying his opinion because he also says there is no inequality in Christ so which is it? They can't both be facts one has to be an opinion
Sampson was a prophet with long hair so was Sampson some sort of dishonour to God?
This is what I am talking about reason and religion now what I have told you is clear and reasonable so for what reason would you dispute reality and actual scripture
1 Corinthians 11
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to himJudges 16
17 So he told her everything. “No razor has ever been used on my head,” he said, “because I have been a Nazirite dedicated to God from my mother’s womb. If my head were shaved, my strength would leave me, and I would become as weak as any other man.”
18 When Delilah saw that he had told her everything, she sent word to the rulers of the Philistines, “Come back once more; he has told me everything.” So the rulers of the Philistines returned with the silver in their hands. 19 After putting him to sleep on her lap, she called for someone to shave off the seven braids of his hair, and so began to subdue him.[c] And his strength left him.
Numbers 6
5All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.
There is your proof so be reasonable and accept that Paul is preaching his opinion in this matter otherwise God would have made Eve cover her head
Hi BD,So, let me get this straight…
It's the Apostle Peter's opinion (according to BD),
that (Shaool) the Apostle Paul's epistles are scripture;
but they are merely (according to BD) the Apostle Paul's opinion. …did I get it right, is this what you believe?…please no speeches, just answer the question; OK?
Hi Ed As always I must insist on asking you to understand that this is not a contest between who could be right or wrong that's why in this thread I appealed to the nature of reason and you and pierre thought there was some benefit in insulting me which is not only unreasonable it is also highly ineffective. I'm not really that sensitive but if you think by your own standards “I need to be put in my place” then provide the scriptures and the context behind them with the reason of your viewpoint and I would be happy to be put right if I am wrong about something and you should do likewise.
Anytime someone says “not the Lord but I say” disqualifies the statement as THE WORD of GOD, Do you agree?
Hi Bod.
I was wondering if I could have your view on something. I posted this in believers place but I'm tired of posting there. I also might not have a computer for a while. But what is your view on the following?
Some say it's Islam but I'm not sure. It doesn't seem to fit to me.
This is earlier Christian writings, 100-300AD, most of them.
Quote: “Antichrist will exceed in malice, perversity, lust, wickedness, impiety, and ruthlessness and barbarity all men that have ever disgraced human nature. Hence St. Paul emphatically calls him `the man of sin the son of perdition, the wicked one, whose birth and coming is through the operation of Satan, in all manner of seduction and iniquity.' (2 Thess., 2). Through his great power, deceit and malice he shall succeed in decoying or forcing to his worship two thirds of mankind; the remaining third part of men will continue true to the faith and worship of Jesus Christ most steadfastly. But in his satanic rage and fury, Antichrist will persecute these brave and devout Christians during three years and a half, and torture them with such an extremity of barbarity, with all the old and newly invented instruments of pain, as to exceed all past persecutors of the Church combined. He will oblige all his followers to bear impressed upon their foreheads or right hands the mark of the Beast and will starve to death all those who refuse to receive it.” (St. Cyril of Jerusalem)
“Antichrist will teach that Christ was an impostor, and not the real Son of God.” (St. Hilary)
“Christ arose from among the Hebrews, and he (Antichrist) will spring from among the Jews. Christ showed His flesh as a Temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he, too, will raise up again the Temple of stone in Jerusalem.” (St. Hippolytus)
“In every respect that Deceiver seeks to make himself appear like the Son of God. Christ is king of things celestial and terrestrial, and Antichrist will be king upon earth. The Saviour sent the Apostles unto all the nations, and he, in like manner will send false apostles. Christ gathered together the dispersed sheep, and he in like manner will gather together the dispersed people of the Hebrews. Christ appeared in the form of man, and he in like manner will come forth in the form of man.” (Hippolytus)
“Antichrist will rule the world from Jerusalem, which he will make into a magnificent city.” (St. Anselm)
“He will call together the whole people to himself, out of every country of the Dispersion, making them his own, as though they were his own children, and promising to restore their country and establish again their kingdom and nation, in order that he may be worshipped by them as God.” (St. Hippolytus)
“Antichrist, the son of perdition will be born in Corozain, will be brought up in Bethsaida and shall begin to reign in Capharnaum, according to what Our Lord Jesus said in the Gospel: “Woe to thee Corozain … woe to thee Bethsaida … and thou Capharnaum that art exalted up to heaven, thou shalt be thrust down to hell. (Luke, 10:13) Antichrist shall work a thousand prodigies on earth. He will make the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the dead rise, so that even the Elect, if possible, shall be deceived by his magical arts. Puffed up with pride, Antichrist shall enter in triumph the city of Jerusalem and will sit on a throne in the Temple to be adored as if he were the Son of God. His heart being intoxicated with arrogance, he will forget his being a mere man, and the son of a woman of the tribe of Dan.” (St. Zenobius)
“Antichrist will be born near Babylon. He will win the support of many with gifts and money. He will sell himself to the devil and thereafter will have no guardian angel or conscience.” (St. Jerome)
“But many who are hearers of Holy Scripture and have it in their hands, and keep it in mind with understanding, will escape his imposture. For they will see clearly through his insidious appearance and his deceitful imposture, and will flee from his hands and betake themselves to the mountains, and hide in the caves of the earth; and they will seek after the Friend of man with tears and a contrite heart: and He will deliver them out of his toils, and with His right hand He will save those from his snares who make their supplication to Him in a worthy and righteous manner.” (St. Hippolytus)
“Dan, Moses said, is a lion's whelp; and in naming the tribe of Dan he declared clearly the tribe from which Antichrist is destined to spring.” (St. Hippolytus)
“And the churches, too will wail with a mighty lamentation, because neither oblation nor incense is attended to, nor a service acceptable to God; but the sanctuaries of the churches will become like a garden-watcher's hut, and the Holy Body and Blood of Christ will not be shown in those days. The public service of God shall be extinguished, psalmody shall cease, the reading of Scripture shall not be heard; but for men there shall be darkness and lamentation on lamentation, and woe on woe. At that time silver and gold shall be cast out in the streets, and none shall gather them; but all things shall be held an offence. For all shall be eager to escape and to hide and they shall not be able anywhere to find shelter from the woes of the Enemy; but as they carry his mark about them, they shall be readily recognised and declared to be his. There shall be fear outside, and trembling inside both by night and by day. In the streets and in the houses there the dead shall lie; in the streets and in the houses there shall hunger and thirst be; in the streets there shall be tumults, and in the houses lamentations. And beauty of countenance shall be withered, for their forms shall be like those of the dead; and the beauty of women shall fade, and the desire of all men shall vanish. But in spite of all this, not even then will the merciful and benignant God leave the race of men without some comfort; He will shorten even those days to the period of three years and a half, and He will curtail those times on account of the remnant of those who hide in the mountains and caves, that the phalanx of all those saints fail not utterly. But these days shall run their course rapidly; and the kingdom of the Deceiver and Antichrist shall be promptly removed. And then, finally, in the twinkling of an eye shall the fashion of this world pass away, and the power of men shall be brought to naught, and all visible things shall be destroyed.” (St. Hippolytus)
“Antichrist will be born of Jewish parents, of the tribe of Dan, but his mother will not be a virgin, as many believe. As the Holy Ghost came into the heart of Mary, so will the devil enter into the mother of Antichrist, and his diabolical power will always support him. Babylon will be his birthplace, but he will be reared and instructed in Bethsaida and Corozain. After his education at the hands of malignant spirits he will go to Jerusalem and place his seat in the Temple which he will have restored. He will submit to the rite of circumcision, claiming that he is the Son of the Omnipotent God. His first converts will be kings and princes. His influence will extend from sea to sea, largely through force and persuasive eloquence. He will perform many signs and great miracles. Those who believe in him will be marked on the forehead with a sign. For three and a half years he will hold sway and, at the end of that period, he will put to death Henoch and Elias, who will have previously opposed him by preaching the true faith. Shortly afterwards, Christ will appear, and Antichrist will be killed by Michael the Archangel.” (Adso the Monk, 10th Century)
“Then the Son of God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, shall come in person. He shall appear on the clouds of heaven surrounded by legions of angels; and, shining with glory, He will put to death Antichrist, the Beast, the Enemy, the Seducer, and all his followers. This shall be the end of time and the beginning of the general judgment.” (St. Zenobius)
“Antichris
t will heal the sick, raise the dead, restore sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, speech to the dumb, raises storms and calms them, re-names mountains, make trees blossom and wither at a word, re-build the temple of Jerusalem, and make Jerusalem the capital city of the world with the vast wealth of hidden treasures.” (Rabanus Maurus, private) Unquotehttp://www.marianland.com/antichrist/antichrist001.html
Thanks Bod.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2011,12:54) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 07 2011,04:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2011,03:39) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 06 2011,15:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 06 2011,11:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2011,08:36) I was thinking of verse 7, but good job, Pierre. For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
This is an opinion on Paul's part not The Word of GOD
Hi BD,The Apostle Peter, Jesus right hand man believed that (Shaool) the Apostle Paul's epistles to be Scripture. …why do you believe differently?
“Even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:15-16)B'shem
YHVH
11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.It's funny you don't accept Paul as only saying his opinion because he also says there is no inequality in Christ so which is it? They can't both be facts one has to be an opinion
Sampson was a prophet with long hair so was Sampson some sort of dishonour to God?
This is what I am talking about reason and religion now what I have told you is clear and reasonable so for what reason would you dispute reality and actual scripture
1 Corinthians 11
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to himJudges 16
17 So he told her everything. “No razor has ever been used on my head,” he said, “because I have been a Nazirite dedicated to God from my mother’s womb. If my head were shaved, my strength would leave me, and I would become as weak as any other man.”
18 When Delilah saw that he had told her everything, she sent word to the rulers of the Philistines, “Come back once more; he has told me everything.” So the rulers of the Philistines returned with the silver in their hands. 19 After putting him to sleep on her lap, she called for someone to shave off the seven braids of his hair, and so began to subdue him.[c] And his strength left him.
Numbers 6
5All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.
There is your proof so be reasonable and accept that Paul is preaching his opinion in this matter otherwise God would have made Eve cover her head
Hi BD,So, let me get this straight…
It's the Apostle Peter's opinion (according to BD),
that (Shaool) the Apostle Paul's epistles are scripture;
but they are merely (according to BD) the Apostle Paul's opinion. …did I get it right, is this what you believe?…please no speeches, just answer the question; OK?
Hi Ed As always I must insist on asking you to understand that this is not a contest between who could be right or wrong that's why in this thread I appealed to the nature of reason and you and pierre thought there was some benefit in insulting me which is not only unreasonable it is also highly ineffective. I'm not really that sensitive but if you think by your own standards “I need to be put in my place” then provide the scriptures and the context behind them with the reason of your viewpoint and I would be happy to be put right if I am wrong about something and you should do likewise.
Anytime someone says “not the Lord but I say” disqualifies the statement as THE WORD of GOD, Do you agree?
Hi BD,My question was not meant as an insult,
but merely clarification on what you believe.I believe I have spelled it out correctly,
since you do not disagree with it.B'shem
YHVHQuote (shimmer @ Dec. 07 2011,13:04) Hi Bod. I was wondering if I could have your view on something. I posted this in believers place but I'm tired of posting there. I also might not have a computer for a while. But what is your view on the following?
Some say it's Islam but I'm not sure. It doesn't seem to fit to me.
This is earlier Christian writings, 100-300AD, most of them.
Quote: “Antichrist will exceed in malice, perversity, lust, wickedness, impiety, and ruthlessness and barbarity all men that have ever disgraced human nature. Hence St. Paul emphatically calls him `the man of sin the son of perdition, the wicked one, whose birth and coming is through the operation of Satan, in all manner of seduction and iniquity.' (2 Thess., 2). Through his great power, deceit and malice he shall succeed in decoying or forcing to his worship two thirds of mankind; the remaining third part of men will continue true to the faith and worship of Jesus Christ most steadfastly. But in his satanic rage and fury, Antichrist will persecute these brave and devout Christians during three years and a half, and torture them with such an extremity of barbarity, with all the old and newly invented instruments of pain, as to exceed all past persecutors of the Church combined. He will oblige all his followers to bear impressed upon their foreheads or right hands the mark of the Beast and will starve to death all those who refuse to receive it.” (St. Cyril of Jerusalem)
“Antichrist will teach that Christ was an impostor, and not the real Son of God.” (St. Hilary)
“Christ arose from among the Hebrews, and he (Antichrist) will spring from among the Jews. Christ showed His flesh as a Temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he, too, will raise up again the Temple of stone in Jerusalem.” (St. Hippolytus)
“In every respect that Deceiver seeks to make himself appear like the Son of God. Christ is king of things celestial and terrestrial, and Antichrist will be king upon earth. The Saviour sent the Apostles unto all the nations, and he, in like manner will send false apostles. Christ gathered together the dispersed sheep, and he in like manner will gather together the dispersed people of the Hebrews. Christ appeared in the form of man, and he in like manner will come forth in the form of man.” (Hippolytus)
“Antichrist will rule the world from Jerusalem, which he will make into a magnificent city.” (St. Anselm)
“He will call together the whole people to himself, out of every country of the Dispersion, making them his own, as though they were his own children, and promising to restore their country and establish again their kingdom and nation, in order that he may be worshipped by them as God.” (St. Hippolytus)
“Antichrist, the son of perdition will be born in Corozain, will be brought up in Bethsaida and shall begin to reign in Capharnaum, according to what Our Lord Jesus said in the Gospel: “Woe to thee Corozain … woe to thee Bethsaida … and thou Capharnaum that art exalted up to heaven, thou shalt be thrust down to hell. (Luke, 10:13) Antichrist shall work a thousand prodigies on earth. He will make the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the dead rise, so that even the Elect, if possible, shall be deceived by his magical arts. Puffed up with pride, Antichrist shall enter in triumph the city of Jerusalem and will sit on a throne in the Temple to be adored as if he were the Son of God. His heart being intoxicated with arrogance, he will forget his being a mere man, and the son of a woman of the tribe of Dan.” (St. Zenobius)
“Antichrist will be born near Babylon. He will win the support of many with gifts and money. He will sell himself to the devil and thereafter will have no guardian angel or conscience.” (St. Jerome)
“But many who are hearers of Holy Scripture and have it in their hands, and keep it in mind with understanding, will escape his imposture. For they will see clearly through his insidious appearance and his deceitful imposture, and will flee from his hands and betake themselves to the mountains, and hide in the caves of the earth; and they will seek after the Friend of man with tears and a contrite heart: and He will deliver them out of his toils, and with His right hand He will save those from his snares who make their supplication to Him in a worthy and righteous manner.” (St. Hippolytus)
“Dan, Moses said, is a lion's whelp; and in naming the tribe of Dan he declared clearly the tribe from which Antichrist is destined to spring.” (St. Hippolytus)
“And the churches, too will wail with a mighty lamentation, because neither oblation nor incense is attended to, nor a service acceptable to God; but the sanctuaries of the churches will become like a garden-watcher's hut, and the Holy Body and Blood of Christ will not be shown in those days. The public service of God shall be extinguished, psalmody shall cease, the reading of Scripture shall not be heard; but for men there shall be darkness and lamentation on lamentation, and woe on woe. At that time silver and gold shall be cast out in the streets, and none shall gather them; but all things shall be held an offence. For all shall be eager to escape and to hide and they shall not be able anywhere to find shelter from the woes of the Enemy; but as they carry his mark about them, they shall be readily recognised and declared to be his. There shall be fear outside, and trembling inside both by night and by day. In the streets and in the houses there the dead shall lie; in the streets and in the houses there shall hunger and thirst be; in the streets there shall be tumults, and in the houses lamentations. And beauty of countenance shall be withered, for their forms shall be like those of the dead; and the beauty of women shall fade, and the desire of all men shall vanish. But in spite of all this, not even then will the merciful and benignant God leave the race of men without some comfort; He will shorten even those days to the period of three years and a half, and He will curtail those times on account of the remnant of those who hide in the mountains and caves, that the phalanx of all those saints fail not utterly. But these days shall run their course rapidly; and the kingdom of the Deceiver and Antichrist shall be promptly removed. And then, finally, in the twinkling of an eye shall the fashion of this world pass away, and the power of men shall be brought to naught, and all visible things shall be destroyed.” (St. Hippolytus)
“Antichrist will be born of Jewish parents, of the tribe of Dan, but his mother will not be a virgin, as many believe. As the Holy Ghost came into the heart of Mary, so will the devil enter into the mother of Antichrist, and his diabolical power will always support him. Babylon will be his birthplace, but he will be reared and instructed in Bethsaida and Corozain. After his education at the hands of malignant spirits he will go to Jerusalem and place his seat in the Temple which he will have restored. He will submit to the rite of circumcision, claiming that he is the Son of the Omnipotent God. His first converts will be kings and princes. His influence will extend from sea to sea, largely through force and persuasive eloquence. He will perform many signs and great miracles. Those who believe in him will be marked on the forehead with a sign. For three and a half years he will hold sway and, at the end of that period, he will put to death Henoch and Elias, who will have previously opposed him by preaching the true faith. Shortly afterwards, Christ will appear, and Antichrist will be killed by Michael the Archangel.” (Adso the Monk, 10th Century)
“Then the Son of God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, shall come in person. He shall appear on the clouds of heaven surrounded by legions of angels; a
nd, shining with glory, He will put to death Antichrist, the Beast, the Enemy, the Seducer, and all his followers. This shall be the end of time and the beginning of the general judgment.” (St. Zenobius)“Antichrist will heal the sick, raise the dead, restore sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, speech to the dumb, raises storms and calms them, re-names mountains, make trees blossom and wither at a word, re-build the temple of Jerusalem, and make Jerusalem the capital city of the world with the vast wealth of hidden treasures.” (Rabanus Maurus, private) Unquote
http://www.marianland.com/antichrist/antichrist001.html
Thanks Bod.
How does this have anything to do with Islam it is simply a volume of provacotive information without any context.Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 07 2011,14:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2011,12:54) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 07 2011,04:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2011,03:39) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 06 2011,15:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 06 2011,11:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2011,08:36) I was thinking of verse 7, but good job, Pierre. For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
This is an opinion on Paul's part not The Word of GOD
Hi BD,The Apostle Peter, Jesus right hand man believed that (Shaool) the Apostle Paul's epistles to be Scripture. …why do you believe differently?
“Even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:15-16)B'shem
YHVH
11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.It's funny you don't accept Paul as only saying his opinion because he also says there is no inequality in Christ so which is it? They can't both be facts one has to be an opinion
Sampson was a prophet with long hair so was Sampson some sort of dishonour to God?
This is what I am talking about reason and religion now what I have told you is clear and reasonable so for what reason would you dispute reality and actual scripture
1 Corinthians 11
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to himJudges 16
17 So he told her everything. “No razor has ever been used on my head,” he said, “because I have been a Nazirite dedicated to God from my mother’s womb. If my head were shaved, my strength would leave me, and I would become as weak as any other man.”
18 When Delilah saw that he had told her everything, she sent word to the rulers of the Philistines, “Come back once more; he has told me everything.” So the rulers of the Philistines returned with the silver in their hands. 19 After putting him to sleep on her lap, she called for someone to shave off the seven braids of his hair, and so began to subdue him.[c] And his strength left him.
Numbers 6
5All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.
There is your proof so be reasonable and accept that Paul is preaching his opinion in this matter otherwise God would have made Eve cover her head
Hi BD,So, let me get this straight…
It's the Apostle Peter's opinion (according to BD),
that (Shaool) the Apostle Paul's epistles are scripture;
but they are merely (according to BD) the Apostle Paul's opinion. …did I get it right, is this what you believe?…please no speeches, just answer the question; OK?
Hi Ed As always I must insist on asking you to understand that this is not a contest between who could be right or wrong that's why in this thread I appealed to the nature of reason and you and pierre thought there was some benefit in insulting me which is not only unreasonable it is also highly ineffective. I'm not really that sensitive but if you think by your own standards “I need to be put in my place” then provide the scriptures and the context behind them with the reason of your viewpoint and I would be happy to be put right if I am wrong about something and you should do likewise.
Anytime someone says “not the Lord but I say” disqualifies the statement as THE WORD of GOD, Do you agree?
Hi BD,My question was not meant as an insult,
but merely clarification on what you believe.I believe I have spelled it out correctly,
since you do not disagree with it.B'shem
YHVH
The point is all religios text is called scripture not that it is all the Word of God:The Old testament is Jewish Holy Scripture and they do not consider the NT Holy or scripture at all. Don't you accept the Hindu scriptures if not why not? They are also scriptures
BD,
At times I often wonder do people really proof read their own words, your comment to Edj about scripture being scripture is correct, you must remember though, now the koran is placed in that category also.
Perhaps I can help you understand Shimmers post a bit more, so relevance can be seen. She is quoting passages about how the anti christ will interact, come about, and what this antichrist will teach.
It seems that a comparison could be drawn from your belief system that Jesus is not the son of god as she quoted in her second paragraph, that he will arise from within your holy city ect. ect.
So yes there is reference to Islam and context in her post.
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