Reason and Religion

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:27)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:22) I did, Peter wasn't there he went out and wept bitterly, no one was there according to the scriptures that must have been fulfilled. I think Ed meant in light of your claim that they all fled, and therefore couldn't have come back later. The fact that Peter DID come back to Jesus after he fled refutes your “proof” that none of them attended the crucifixion.

Hi Mike,

Yes, that was the point I was making.

B'shem
YHVH

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,12:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:22) I did, Peter wasn't there he went out and wept bitterly, no one was there according to the scriptures that must have been fulfilled. I think Ed meant in light of your claim that they all fled, and therefore couldn't have come back later. The fact that Peter DID come back to Jesus after he fled refutes your “proof” that none of them attended the crucifixion. Hi Mike, Yes, that was the point I was making. B'shem YHVH

Then they didn't forsake him

[mikeboll64]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) Hi Mike Wrong approach because Muhammad agrees that they thought Jesus was crucified so obviously if they thought that wasthe case that would be their report. Mark 9:31 He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise.” This one isn't a vision, Asana.  It is the directly quoted words of Jesus himself, before he was KILLED.  It is supported by Luke in 9:22, and by all the gospel writers. Are the words of Jesus himself good enough?  Or do you still assert that Jesus only thought he was going to die, and therefore the scriptures are a lie? Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) It is obvious that they were fearing for their life and they did not attend the crucifixion……… It is most certainly NOT obvious that they did not attend the crucifixion, for John says he was there. Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) ……..and as far as trusting Peter to tell the truth Jesus trusted that he would lie and he was right, right? You've got to be kidding me, Asana.  So now the only NT words that are reliable are the ones Mohammad agrees with?   What criteria do you use to decide when Peter was telling the truth in scripture, and when he was lying? Jesus could have very well accepted the idea he would die. Jesus also thought that: Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. You do understand that they certainly reached all the cities of Israel and Jesus has not yet returned, right?

Asana,

Matthew 10:23 speaks of when Jesus sent his disciples out in twos, long before he was killed. They reunited after this mission trip, again long before he was killed.

It seems you are avoiding the points and questions in my post. It seems you are trying to create a diversion so you won't have to address my points. Is this true?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,12:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) Hi Mike Wrong approach because Muhammad agrees that they thought Jesus was crucified so obviously if they thought that wasthe case that would be their report. Mark 9:31 He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise.” This one isn't a vision, Asana.  It is the directly quoted words of Jesus himself, before he was KILLED.  It is supported by Luke in 9:22, and by all the gospel writers. Are the words of Jesus himself good enough?  Or do you still assert that Jesus only thought he was going to die, and therefore the scriptures are a lie? Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) It is obvious that they were fearing for their life and they did not attend the crucifixion……… It is most certainly NOT obvious that they did not attend the crucifixion, for John says he was there. Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) ……..and as far as trusting Peter to tell the truth Jesus trusted that he would lie and he was right, right? You've got to be kidding me, Asana.  So now the only NT words that are reliable are the ones Mohammad agrees with?   What criteria do you use to decide when Peter was telling the truth in scripture, and when he was lying? Jesus could have very well accepted the idea he would die. Jesus also thought that: Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. You do understand that they certainly reached all the cities of Israel and Jesus has not yet returned, right? Otherwise ED is right and Jesus has already returned at pentecost if this is correct you should really start taking him seriously

Hi BD,

Why thank you Asana!

Witness
Joshua 22:34

[mikeboll64]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:38)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:22) I did, Peter wasn't there he went out and wept bitterly, no one was there according to the scriptures that must have been fulfilled. I think Ed meant in light of your claim that they all fled, and therefore couldn't have come back later. The fact that Peter DID come back to Jesus after he fled refutes your “proof” that none of them attended the crucifixion. How did Peter come back to Jesus, The next time they saw Jesus they were scared and thought they were seeing a ghost but Jesus reassured them that HE WAS NOT A GHOST and that HE WAS FLESH AND BONE he was like it's me I'M NOT DEAD and I'M HUNGRY

And what scripture tells you that was the “NEXT TIME” they saw Jesus?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,12:38)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:22) I did, Peter wasn't there he went out and wept bitterly, no one was there according to the scriptures that must have been fulfilled. I think Ed meant in light of your claim that they all fled, and therefore couldn't have come back later. The fact that Peter DID come back to Jesus after he fled refutes your “proof” that none of them attended the crucifixion. How did Peter come back to Jesus, The next time they saw Jesus they were scared and thought they were seeing a ghost but Jesus reassured them that HE WAS NOT A GHOST and that HE WAS FLESH AND BONE he was like it's me I'M NOT DEAD and I'M HUNGRY

Hi BD,

If an imposter was crucified as is the claim of the 'book of fraud',
what do you say about the account of the holes in his hand's and side?

Thomas said: “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into
the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25)

John 20:27 Then saith [Jesus] to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands;
and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Is this just yet another point you want to pretend is not there?

B'shem (in the Name of)
YHVH (the everlasting God)

[bodhitharta]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:44)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) Hi Mike Wrong approach because Muhammad agrees that they thought Jesus was crucified so obviously if they thought that wasthe case that would be their report. Mark 9:31 He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise.” This one isn't a vision, Asana.  It is the directly quoted words of Jesus himself, before he was KILLED.  It is supported by Luke in 9:22, and by all the gospel writers. Are the words of Jesus himself good enough?  Or do you still assert that Jesus only thought he was going to die, and therefore the scriptures are a lie? Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) It is obvious that they were fearing for their life and they did not attend the crucifixion……… It is most certainly NOT obvious that they did not attend the crucifixion, for John says he was there. Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) ……..and as far as trusting Peter to tell the truth Jesus trusted that he would lie and he was right, right? You've got to be kidding me, Asana.  So now the only NT words that are reliable are the ones Mohammad agrees with?   What criteria do you use to decide when Peter was telling the truth in scripture, and when he was lying? Jesus could have very well accepted the idea he would die. Jesus also thought that: Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. You do understand that they certainly reached all the cities of Israel and Jesus has not yet returned, right? Asana, Matthew 10:23 speaks of when Jesus sent his disciples out in twos, long before he was killed.  They reunited after this mission trip, again long before he was killed. It seems you are avoiding the points and questions in my post.  It seems you are trying to create a diversion so you won't have to address my points.  Is this true?

No it is not true and you have attempted to change the scriptures Jesus that after he sent them out they would not go through all the cities before he returns in glory and yet you think it means something else please tell me what Jesus meant?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:45)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:22) I did, Peter wasn't there he went out and wept bitterly, no one was there according to the scriptures that must have been fulfilled. I think Ed meant in light of your claim that they all fled, and therefore couldn't have come back later. The fact that Peter DID come back to Jesus after he fled refutes your “proof” that none of them attended the crucifixion. How did Peter come back to Jesus, The next time they saw Jesus they were scared and thought they were seeing a ghost but Jesus reassured them that HE WAS NOT A GHOST and that HE WAS FLESH AND BONE he was like it's me I'M NOT DEAD and I'M HUNGRY And what scripture tells you that was the “NEXT TIME” they saw Jesus?

No scripture tells me that, but if they had seen him previously they wouldn't have been afraid would they?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,13:03)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,12:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:22) I did, Peter wasn't there he went out and wept bitterly, no one was there according to the scriptures that must have been fulfilled. I think Ed meant in light of your claim that they all fled, and therefore couldn't have come back later. The fact that Peter DID come back to Jesus after he fled refutes your “proof” that none of them attended the crucifixion. How did Peter come back to Jesus, The next time they saw Jesus they were scared and thought they were seeing a ghost but Jesus reassured them that HE WAS NOT A GHOST and that HE WAS FLESH AND BONE he was like it's me I'M NOT DEAD and I'M HUNGRY Hi BD, If an imposter was crucified as is the claim of the 'book of fraud', what do you say about the account of the holes in his hand's and side? Thomas said: “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25) John 20:27 Then saith [Jesus] to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. Is this just yet another point you want to pretend is not there? B'shem (in the Name of) YHVH (the everlasting God)

No , it's there but it's only in John where everything is super divine and he has a super one and only connection with Jesus

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,12:44)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,12:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) Hi Mike Wrong approach because Muhammad agrees that they thought Jesus was crucified so obviously if they thought that wasthe case that would be their report. Mark 9:31 He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise.” This one isn't a vision, Asana.  It is the directly quoted words of Jesus himself, before he was KILLED.  It is supported by Luke in 9:22, and by all the gospel writers. Are the words of Jesus himself good enough?  Or do you still assert that Jesus only thought he was going to die, and therefore the scriptures are a lie? Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) It is obvious that they were fearing for their life and they did not attend the crucifixion……… It is most certainly NOT obvious that they did not attend the crucifixion, for John says he was there. Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:12) ……..and as far as trusting Peter to tell the truth Jesus trusted that he would lie and he was right, right? You've got to be kidding me, Asana.  So now the only NT words that are reliable are the ones Mohammad agrees with?   What criteria do you use to decide when Peter was telling the truth in scripture, and when he was lying? Jesus could have very well accepted the idea he would die. Jesus also thought that: Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. You do understand that they certainly reached all the cities of Israel and Jesus has not yet returned, right? Otherwise ED is right and Jesus has already returned at pentecost if this is correct you should really start taking him seriously Hi BD, Why thank you Asana! Witness Joshua 22:34

I was being serious to, But Mike is a Christian so he doesn't have to take you seriously because you guys can be as many versions of Christianity and disagree on any point it's like the “Make up your own rules religion”

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,13:43)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,13:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,12:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:22) I did, Peter wasn't there he went out and wept bitterly, no one was there according to the scriptures that must have been fulfilled. I think Ed meant in light of your claim that they all fled, and therefore couldn't have come back later. The fact that Peter DID come back to Jesus after he fled refutes your “proof” that none of them attended the crucifixion. How did Peter come back to Jesus, The next time they saw Jesus they were scared and thought they were seeing a ghost but Jesus reassured them that HE WAS NOT A GHOST and that HE WAS FLESH AND BONE he was like it's me I'M NOT DEAD and I'M HUNGRY Hi BD, If an imposter was crucified as is the claim of the 'book of fraud', what do you say about the account of the holes in his hand's and side? Thomas said: “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25) John 20:27 Then saith [Jesus] to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. Is this just yet another point you want to pretend is not there? B'shem (in the Name of) YHVH (the everlasting God) No , it's there but it's only in John where everything is super divine and he has a super one and only connection with Jesus

Hi BD,

Shall we pretend that this verse does not exist as well?

Luke 24:38-39 And [Jesus] said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me,
and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

B'shem
YHVH

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,14:07)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,13:43) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,13:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,12:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:22) I did, Peter wasn't there he went out and wept bitterly, no one was there according to the scriptures that must have been fulfilled. I think Ed meant in light of your claim that they all fled, and therefore couldn't have come back later. The fact that Peter DID come back to Jesus after he fled refutes your “proof” that none of them attended the crucifixion. How did Peter come back to Jesus, The next time they saw Jesus they were scared and thought they were seeing a ghost but Jesus reassured them that HE WAS NOT A GHOST and that HE WAS FLESH AND BONE he was like it's me I'M NOT DEAD and I'M HUNGRY Hi BD, If an imposter was crucified as is the claim of the 'book of fraud', what do you say about the account of the holes in his hand's and side? Thomas said: “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25) John 20:27 Then saith [Jesus] to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. Is this just yet another point you want to pretend is not there? B'shem (in the Name of) YHVH (the everlasting God) No , it's there but it's only in John where everything is super divine and he has a super one and only connection with Jesus Hi BD, Shall we pretend that this verse does not exist as well? Luke 24:38-39 And [Jesus] said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. B'shem YHVH

So are you saying that a resurrected body will still have scars of the old body?

Now keep in mind Jesus didn't say here are the print of the nails he simply said here are my hands and my side, stop disbelieving. Do you think Jesus was walking around like a zombie with an open wound on his side and holes in his hands and feet?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,14:22)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,14:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,13:43) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,13:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,12:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:22) I did, Peter wasn't there he went out and wept bitterly, no one was there according to the scriptures that must have been fulfilled. I think Ed meant in light of your claim that they all fled, and therefore couldn't have come back later. The fact that Peter DID come back to Jesus after he fled refutes your “proof” that none of them attended the crucifixion. How did Peter come back to Jesus, The next time they saw Jesus they were scared and thought they were seeing a ghost but Jesus reassured them that HE WAS NOT A GHOST and that HE WAS FLESH AND BONE he was like it's me I'M NOT DEAD and I'M HUNGRY Hi BD, If an imposter was crucified as is the claim of the 'book of fraud', what do you say about the account of the holes in his hand's and side? Thomas said: “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25) John 20:27 Then saith [Jesus] to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. Is this just yet another point you want to pretend is not there? B'shem (in the Name of) YHVH (the everlasting God) No , it's there but it's only in John where everything is super divine and he has a super one and only connection with Jesus Hi BD, Shall we pretend that this verse does not exist as well? Luke 24:38-39 And [Jesus] said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. B'shem YHVH So are you saying that a resurrected body will still have scars of the old body? Now keep in mind Jesus didn't say here are the print of the nails he simply said here are my hands and my side, stop disbelieving. Do you think Jesus was walking around like a zombie with an open wound on his side and holes in his hands and feet?

Hi BD,

The bible is clear, Jesus' certainly had his crucifixion scars.
But perhaps we will not have ours, because of this verse…

Isaiah 53:4-6 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows:
yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities:
the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Consider carefully the wording I have highlighted.

B'shem
YHVH

[942767]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 12 2012,06:07)

Bod is correct. Paul was not even sure that there ever was a human Jesus. He only saw a vision of a spirit Jesus. Paul never even mentioned any of the miracles that Jesus performed that the other gospels described. Tim

BD is not correct and neither are you:

Quote

Rom 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Marty

[942767]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 10 2012,02:54)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2012,12:47) Hi BD: What translation are you using? Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, BD plays musical bible translations, meaning he picks and chooses which translation that best fits his preconceived ideas of truth to post with. It must be funny watching him scour the various versions to find the one that best fits!   B'shem YHVH

I just hope that he chooses to believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and that no man can be reconciled to God except through him.

But God will not force Himself on anyone.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2012,14:53)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2012,14:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2012,13:34) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2012,13:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2012,12:58) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2012,12:47) Hi BD: What translation are you using? John was to be the forerunner to Jesus, and he was anointed as a prophet with the Holy Spirit in the role of presenting the Messiah to the nation of Israel.  Why the scripture states that he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth, I do not know, but that is what the scripture states.  Surely, he did not act in the role of a prophet as a child. This is what the scripture states about John: Quote Luk 1:13 But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechari'ah, for your prayer is heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.   Luk 1:14 And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth;   Luk 1:15 for he will be great before the Lord, and he shall drink no wine nor strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.   Luk 1:16 And he will turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God,   Luk 1:17 and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Eli'jah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”   This is what the scripture states about John, and I have showed you what the scripture states about Jesus. Love in Christ, Marty Luke 1:15 King James Version (KJV) 15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. What version do you like or want John was filled with The Holy Spirit even before birth. Why do you believe that Jesus wasn't? Hi BD: Because the scriptures tell us when he was baptized with the Holy Spirit. Under the Law and the prophets, only the prophets were filled with the Holy Spirit.  It was through them that God spoke to his people.  The people themselves did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them.  They were under the Law of God has given to the nation of Israel through Moses. Jesus was a Son under the Law of Moses until he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and began his ministry as God's Christ. Love in Christ, Marty Marty, Jesus was a Prophet: John 4:19-21 New International Version (NIV) 19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Luke 24:19 New International Version (NIV)   19 “What things?” he asked.   “About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. Yes, in his ministry as God's Christ, he was a prophet.  He did not begin his ministry until he was baptized with the Holy Spirit. Love in Christ, Marty You do understandthat John the Baptist from birth was anointed with Prophethood and was filled with the Holy Spirit even before birth right?

Filled with the Holy Spirit even before his birth? No, this is not what the scriptures state.

But what point are you trying to make by harping on when he was filled with the Holy Spirit. He was a prophet and was a forerunner to Jesus. His purpose was to reveal the Messiah to the Nation of Israel, and he did not operate in the power of the Holy Spirit until he was an adult.

Quote

Luk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. Luk 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 12 2012,17:28)

Filled with the Holy Spirit even before his birth?  No, this is not what the scriptures state.

Hi Marty

Luke 1:15

King James Version (KJV)
15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 12 2012,16:56)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 10 2012,02:54) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2012,12:47) Hi BD: What translation are you using? Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, BD plays musical bible translations, meaning he picks and chooses which translation that best fits his preconceived ideas of truth to post with. It must be funny watching him scour the various versions to find the one that best fits!   B'shem YHVH I just hope that he chooses to believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and that no man can be reconciled to God except through him. But God will not force Himself on anyone. Love in Christ, Marty

When Jesus said

John 14:6

King James Version (KJV)

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is explaining that he is the Messiah do you not realize that Moses would have said the same thing? If you did not follow moses as an Israelite you were not reconciled to God at Mt Sinai in fact if you didn't accept the covenant you were killed.

When God is speaking through a vessel that vessel is The Way, The Truth and The Life

John 14:10

King James Version (KJV)

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

In Other words GOD is the way. Marty, GOD is ALWAYS THE WAY and HE does what he wants

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,14:52)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,14:22) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,14:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,13:43) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2012,13:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,12:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,12:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 11 2012,19:22) I did, Peter wasn't there he went out and wept bitterly, no one was there according to the scriptures that must have been fulfilled. I think Ed meant in light of your claim that they all fled, and therefore couldn't have come back later. The fact that Peter DID come back to Jesus after he fled refutes your “proof” that none of them attended the crucifixion. How did Peter come back to Jesus, The next time they saw Jesus they were scared and thought they were seeing a ghost but Jesus reassured them that HE WAS NOT A GHOST and that HE WAS FLESH AND BONE he was like it's me I'M NOT DEAD and I'M HUNGRY Hi BD, If an imposter was crucified as is the claim of the 'book of fraud', what do you say about the account of the holes in his hand's and side? Thomas said: “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25) John 20:27 Then saith [Jesus] to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. Is this just yet another point you want to pretend is not there? B'shem (in the Name of) YHVH (the everlasting God) No , it's there but it's only in John where everything is super divine and he has a super one and only connection with Jesus Hi BD, Shall we pretend that this verse does not exist as well? Luke 24:38-39 And [Jesus] said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. B'shem YHVH So are you saying that a resurrected body will still have scars of the old body? Now keep in mind Jesus didn't say here are the print of the nails he simply said here are my hands and my side, stop disbelieving. Do you think Jesus was walking around like a zombie with an open wound on his side and holes in his hands and feet? Hi BD, The bible is clear, Jesus' certainly had his crucifixion scars. But perhaps we will not have ours, because of this verse… Isaiah 53:4-6 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Consider carefully the wording I have highlighted. B'shem YHVH

So you are thinking that Jesus was standing there with a gaping gash in his side, holes in his hand and asking for food and drink?

Then you claim that this is a resurrected body?

It seems clear that Jesus is showing him no wounds unless you really believe Jesus told Thomas to put his hand in an open wound, no it makes sense that Jesus is saying touch my side touch my hands it is me the Jesus you know and I am alive

[TimothyVI]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 12 2012,13:46)

I was being serious to, But Mike is a Christian so he doesn't have to take you seriously because you guys can be as many versions of Christianity and disagree on any point it's like the “Make up your own rules religion”

That has been my observation as well.

Tim

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