Reason and Religion

[bodhitharta]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2011,03:31)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 17 2011,20:19) It is your view that Jesu s felt this way: Psalm 22:2O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent. But the truth is this: John 11:42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me. Are you wrong or is Jesus wrong you decide That's pretty weak, Asana.  Even as David was writing those words, do you think David thought there was a place he could go where God could no longer hear him? It is as if my son were dying, and even though I know God can always hear me, and knows what I need before I even ask for it, I still say, “God, why can't you hear my prayers?  My son is still sick.” It was a statement of urgency and despair, because despite the fact that both Jesus and David knew God was with them, out of the weakness of their flesh they were saying, “Come on God!  Aren't you listening?  I need you NOW!”

You said this was an ETERNAL plan so what weakness of flesh would cause Jesus to somehow forget this and try to get out of it?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2011,11:48)

Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 18 2011,12:43) Really?  Human sacrifice?  No clear opinion?  Wow. I also don't know how God will deal with your disbelief in Him.  Why would you think I would know God's mind?  I follow Micah 6:8 – Love mercy, do justice, and walk humbly with your God.  I don't need to know God's every thought on every subject in order to do that, right?  He has never requested me personally to sacrifice a human being.  If and when He does, I'll let you know. Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 18 2011,12:43) I noticed that you skipped over the following part of post. I said: Quote Can you name any other “leader of God's people” who was not immediately sanctioned for disobeying God or committing some sinful act?  Jepthah was never rebuked for this action by anyone at anytime ever!  In fact, he was rewarded with more and more victories in battle. Looks to me like what he did was well within the bounds of the law, and Leviticus 27:28-29 is the only part of the law that speaks to his actions. Until you rise to that challenge, it will be clear that you don't really have anything but an apologetic spin to stand on. I'm sorry, I didn't think you could possibly be serious with that question.  Which one of 30 kings would you like me to start with?  Manasseh ruled 55 years over Israel although he was wicked in the eyes of God.

So on one hand you admit you don't know what's in the mind of God nor need to know his every thought on the other hand you say with certainty that what I am telling you about Christ has to be incorrect based upon your knowledge of God, which is it?

If You say that God loves Mercy and I say that I agree and to that end God saved Jesus from the Cross it would be unreasonoble for you to say that God had to Sacrifice Jesus although the scriptures say that God WANTs and WILL HAVE MERCY and not sacrifice and you refuse to believe what God says is HIS thoughts and how HE functions. Jesus even told you:

Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

So why do you still condemn the guiltless saying that he HAD to be SACRIFICED for your sins?

Let's be clear I believe in the Mercy of God I stated that Jephthah did not sacrifice his daughter that the scriptural interpretation must be flawed not God, But you think whatever is written and translated it must be 100% true and accurate as if the Nature and attributes of God are secondary to whatever the bible says and in that pursuit you don't even take the entire bible in context. God is real and not dead words on a page

[terraricca]

Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 19 2011,12:54)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 18 2011,06:50) where did  Jepthah burned his daughter ?? you must have dreamed this ;you are a joker right?? Judges 11:29: Quote Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah … Judges 11:30: Quote And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD … Judges 11:31: Quote … whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me … I will offer it up as a burnt offering. Judges 11:34: Quote When Jephthah came to his house at Mizpah, there was his daughter, coming out to meet him with timbrels and dancing … Judges 11:39: Quote … he carried out his vow with her which he had vowed. Joke? No. Scripture?  Yes?

Hi

You show me the scriptures ,that shows Jepthah vow,

This is not what I ask you,

I ask you where it says he burn his daughter ??

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,20:58)

There is only one scripture that seems to say that John was there and that is not even clear so why do you say you believe eyewitnesses…………

Revelation 1:18
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

How about Jesus?  Can I believe him as an eyewitness?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,21:00)

You said this was an ETERNAL plan so what weakness of flesh would cause Jesus to somehow forget this and try to get out of it?

Try to get out of what? You say he didn't even die, so what was he trying to get out of?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,21:12)

So on one hand you admit you don't know what's in the mind of God nor need to know his every thought on the other hand you say with certainty that what I am telling you about Christ has to be incorrect based upon your knowledge of God…………

Based on my knowledge of scriptures. Not based on my knowledge of what's in God's mind.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:16)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,20:58) There is only one scripture that seems to say that John was there and that is not even clear so why do you say you believe eyewitnesses………… Revelation 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. How about Jesus?  Can I believe him as an eyewitness?

Doesn't the book of revelation count as a vision?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:22)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,21:12) So on one hand you admit you don't know what's in the mind of God nor need to know his every thought on the other hand you say with certainty that what I am telling you about Christ has to be incorrect based upon your knowledge of God………… Based on my knowledge of scriptures.  Not based on my knowledge of what's in God's mind.

Yes but it is only your assumption that the scriptures you read have validity therefore you only believe what is in God's mind based upon your limited view, for instance you don't believe that you are incorrect about Jesus based on Judaism and they have scriptures that you base your entire belief on they don't consider anything in the NT scripture or Holy they consider Jesus a false prophet or worse and they are the “Chosen People” so your knowledge is only based on scriptures you accept, right?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 20 2011,14:04)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,21:12) So on one hand you admit you don't know what's in the mind of God nor need to know his every thought on the other hand you say with certainty that what I am telling you about Christ has to be incorrect based upon your knowledge of God………… Based on my knowledge of scriptures.  Not based on my knowledge of what's in God's mind. Yes but it is only your assumption that the scriptures you read have validity therefore you only believe what is in God's mind based upon your limited view, for instance you don't believe that you are incorrect about Jesus based on Judaism and they have scriptures that you base your entire belief on they don't consider anything in the NT scripture or Holy they consider Jesus a false prophet or worse and they are the “Chosen People” so your knowledge is only based on scriptures you accept, right?

Hi BD,

Yep, which are the 66 established books of canon that comprise “The Bible”.
Not on a book of deception, which the mislead are forced to submit to.

B'shem
YHVH

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2011,21:41)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 20 2011,14:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,21:12) So on one hand you admit you don't know what's in the mind of God nor need to know his every thought on the other hand you say with certainty that what I am telling you about Christ has to be incorrect based upon your knowledge of God………… Based on my knowledge of scriptures.  Not based on my knowledge of what's in God's mind. Yes but it is only your assumption that the scriptures you read have validity therefore you only believe what is in God's mind based upon your limited view, for instance you don't believe that you are incorrect about Jesus based on Judaism and they have scriptures that you base your entire belief on they don't consider anything in the NT scripture or Holy they consider Jesus a false prophet or worse and they are the “Chosen People” so your knowledge is only based on scriptures you accept, right? Hi BD, Yep, which are the 66 established books of canon that comprise “The Bible”. Not on a book of deception, which the mislead are forced to submit to. B'shem YHVH

The only problem is there are different cannons some have 73 books and the Ethiopin canon has 84 books so why would your 66 have greater weight than the others?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 19 2011,20:58)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:16) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,20:58) There is only one scripture that seems to say that John was there and that is not even clear so why do you say you believe eyewitnesses………… Revelation 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. How about Jesus?  Can I believe him as an eyewitness? Doesn't the book of revelation count as a vision?

Jeremiah 30 and 31 was a vision he had in a dream, because at the end of it, he woke up refreshed.

Does that mean those words don't count as “real” scripture?

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

1 John 3:16
We know love by this, that he laid down his life for us—and we ought to lay down our lives for one another.

[terraricca]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,12:32)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2011,21:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 20 2011,14:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,21:12) So on one hand you admit you don't know what's in the mind of God nor need to know his every thought on the other hand you say with certainty that what I am telling you about Christ has to be incorrect based upon your knowledge of God………… Based on my knowledge of scriptures.  Not based on my knowledge of what's in God's mind. Yes but it is only your assumption that the scriptures you read have validity therefore you only believe what is in God's mind based upon your limited view, for instance you don't believe that you are incorrect about Jesus based on Judaism and they have scriptures that you base your entire belief on they don't consider anything in the NT scripture or Holy they consider Jesus a false prophet or worse and they are the “Chosen People” so your knowledge is only based on scriptures you accept, right? Hi BD, Yep, which are the 66 established books of canon that comprise “The Bible”. Not on a book of deception, which the mislead are forced to submit to. B'shem YHVH The only problem is there are different cannons some have 73 books and the Ethiopin canon has 84 books so why would your 66 have greater weight than the others?

bod

Quote

why would your 66 have greater weight than the others?

this is elementary BOD you should know this at the least of all others ,just GOOGLE it

Pierre

[bodhitharta]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2011,09:03)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 19 2011,20:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:16) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,20:58) There is only one scripture that seems to say that John was there and that is not even clear so why do you say you believe eyewitnesses………… Revelation 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. How about Jesus?  Can I believe him as an eyewitness? Doesn't the book of revelation count as a vision? Jeremiah 30 and 31 was a vision he had in a dream, because at the end of it, he woke up refreshed. Does that mean those words don't count as “real” scripture? John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 1 John 3:16 We know love by this, that he laid down his life for us—and we ought to lay down our lives for one another.

To lay down your life does not mean that you are killed it simply means you are willing to die and I don't know many people who are not willing to die for something or someone

[bodhitharta]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2011,09:23)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,12:32) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2011,21:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 20 2011,14:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,21:12) So on one hand you admit you don't know what's in the mind of God nor need to know his every thought on the other hand you say with certainty that what I am telling you about Christ has to be incorrect based upon your knowledge of God………… Based on my knowledge of scriptures.  Not based on my knowledge of what's in God's mind. Yes but it is only your assumption that the scriptures you read have validity therefore you only believe what is in God's mind based upon your limited view, for instance you don't believe that you are incorrect about Jesus based on Judaism and they have scriptures that you base your entire belief on they don't consider anything in the NT scripture or Holy they consider Jesus a false prophet or worse and they are the “Chosen People” so your knowledge is only based on scriptures you accept, right? Hi BD, Yep, which are the 66 established books of canon that comprise “The Bible”. Not on a book of deception, which the mislead are forced to submit to. B'shem YHVH The only problem is there are different cannons some have 73 books and the Ethiopin canon has 84 books so why would your 66 have greater weight than the others? bod Quote why would your 66 have greater weight than the others? this is elementary BOD you should know this at the least of all others ,just GOOGLE it Pierre

That doesn't answer the question at all

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,05:32)

The only problem is there are different cannons some have 73 books and the Ethiopin canon has 84 books so why would your 66 have greater weight than the others?

I myself are open to other books as there must be many more books that are inspired even books written these days.

But you know a book that is inspired because it doesn't conflict with the truth. All the inspired books would agree if they were the truth. And now we come to the Koran. It doesn't agree. It teaches the very opposite of what scripture states.

Jesus death does not offer complete salvation and he is not the son of God, is what the Koran teaches.

Quite simple to show that there are huge differences.

[princess]

Quote

All the inspired books would agree if they were the truth

What is even more saddening is that most have core concepts, it is what is added to these concepts that brings the differences. These differences are what determines the religious truth to a denomination. Hence, every religion has the truth, and all others are false.

[Proclaimer]

There is one truth and narrow is its path. Wide is the path of non-truths and lies.
I have never been a fan of denominations, they are just another name for divisions.
Usually they are based around a person that is not Christ.

[terraricca]

Quote (princess @ Dec. 21 2011,18:32)

Quote All the inspired books would agree if they were the truth What is even more saddening is that most have core concepts, it is what is added to these concepts that brings the differences. These differences are what determines the religious truth to a denomination. Hence, every religion has the truth, and all others are false.

princess

lets be simple ,if God as a written word that was addressed to men ,then it would be normal to me anyway that all the benefits of it would for men best interest ,right ?yes it as to be .wen i say men I do not say religion,i do not say black people,or Asian,or Caucasian,or what ever;ALL men benefit,

so find me one other book that equals the scriptures ?

Pierre

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,11:14)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,05:32) The only problem is there are different cannons some have 73 books and the Ethiopin canon has 84 books so why would your 66 have greater weight than the others? I myself are open to other books as there must be many more books that are inspired even books written these days. But you know a book that is inspired because it doesn't conflict with the truth. All the inspired books would agree if they were the truth. And now we come to the Koran. It doesn't agree. It teaches the very opposite of what scripture states. Jesus death does not offer complete salvation and he is not the son of God, is what the Koran teaches. Quite simple to show that there are huge differences.

T8,

The Torah is included in your Bible but not because the Jews give Christianity validation and there Scriptures say nothing of Jesus at least not by name and in the Torah there are many called sons of God. The Quran simply agrees with the Torah in the sense that all these claims of being God's children must be metaphoric or symbolic it's interesting how you refuse to give “son of God' meaning outside Jesus so the Quran deals with certainties such as Jesus and all those mentioned are SERVANTS of God which you cannot dispute even Jesus is called a servant of God now who calls their own actual son a servant?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (princess @ Dec. 21 2011,11:32)

Quote All the inspired books would agree if they were the truth What is even more saddening is that most have core concepts, it is what is added to these concepts that brings the differences. These differences are what determines the religious truth to a denomination. Hence, every religion has the truth, and all others are false.

I agree the all remain blind to the core principles so that they can fell “better than” others

[Author]

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