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Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 16 2011,12:06) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 16 2011,04:42) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 16 2011,09:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2011,04:43) I can't speak to Jepthah's sacrifice of his daughter.
I can't move beyond this first sentence.Do you really have no comment on whether or not sacrificing virgins to God is an acceptable practice?
If not, I can think of only one thing to say:
Quote Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things — that takes religion.
(Quote from Steven Weinberg)
wityou do not understand what is going on here right ?
first Jepthah made a pledge,God has nothing to do with it ,
and God probably made it that it is his daugther that would be the first out ,from now on it was the words of Jepthah that would become either his blessing or his downfall,
just remember we all be judged by our own words ,you and I included ,so what is your word worth ? what would you have done in Jepthah situation ??Pierre
I'll tell you what I would have done, I would have said God please forgive me just like when I do any other sin
BodWhat man sews is what a man reaps,
If you make a commitment and do not hold you to it ,you are a man without a word and so can not be trusted,
You flooding but go now were,
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 16 2011,13:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 15 2011,02:40) No, I am saying you cannot “betray” someone with something they are already planning to have happen.
Hi Asana,Your statement is inaccurate. Jesus knew Judas would betray him, but that's the way it had to happen according to God's plan.
Jesus knowing did not stop Judas from meeting with those who wanted Jesus dead, and taking a bribe from them.
Judas DID betray Jesus, for it is written. And Jesus DID know about it beforehand, for that is also written.
Are you confusing “betray” with “catch off guard”? Because if you are, I agree that Jesus wasn't caught off guard by Judas' betrayal. But Judas still ratted Jesus out, despite the fact that Jesus knew he would.
If you think about what you're saying then Jesus needed Judas to do his part of the plan, right? If that's true Judas is just as responsible for your salvation since you attribute the cross the key to your salvationQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 16 2011,13:22) God KNOWING that the Israelites would constantly disobey Him is different than Him PLANNING for them to do so – as if He purposely caused this behavior.
So God didn't plan the crucifixion as a means of salvation? You agree with me that God didn't purposely cause the Israelites to plot murdering Jesus HE just knew they would do it right?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 16 2011,13:36) Good thing God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, instead of asking you, huh? I believe many people value human life much higher than what it should be. It's like we're living in the pig pen, wallowing in feces, and just over the hill, out of our sight, is a beautiful mansion in a paradise garden. But we will do anything in our power to maintain our existence in that pig pen, because we don't truly believe the mansion in the garden exists.
If Jepthah's daughter WAS accepted by Jehovah as a pleasing sacrifice, it would have been the best thing to ever happen to her. Perhaps she was one of those who never tasted death, but was changed in the twinking of an eye, and went directly to God.
Who knows?
God asked Abraham no one asked Jepthah that's a huge difference.Think about it you value human life more than you let on, The fact is you believe that a single human life can cover the sins of the world through death That is why you can't even consider Jesus not being crucified because you believe your Eternal Life” hinges on that one cruel death
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 16 2011,15:26) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 16 2011,12:06) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 16 2011,04:42) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 16 2011,09:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2011,04:43) I can't speak to Jepthah's sacrifice of his daughter.
I can't move beyond this first sentence.Do you really have no comment on whether or not sacrificing virgins to God is an acceptable practice?
If not, I can think of only one thing to say:
Quote Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things — that takes religion.
(Quote from Steven Weinberg)
wityou do not understand what is going on here right ?
first Jepthah made a pledge,God has nothing to do with it ,
and God probably made it that it is his daugther that would be the first out ,from now on it was the words of Jepthah that would become either his blessing or his downfall,
just remember we all be judged by our own words ,you and I included ,so what is your word worth ? what would you have done in Jepthah situation ??Pierre
I'll tell you what I would have done, I would have said God please forgive me just like when I do any other sin
BodWhat man sews is what a man reaps,
If you make a commitment and do not hold you to it ,you are a man without a word and so can not be trusted,
You flooding but go now were,
Pierre
Your whole belief is based on reaping what you didn't sow, right?You didn't earn etrnal life or salvation, you believe that Jesus reaped what you sowed that is your whole belief you deserve death but Jesus took your place.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 16 2011,13:22) Did scriptures say that God “planned” it, or wanted it to go down this way? Or did God just know what would happen?
Hi Mike,You are really confused on what God plans and what he just knows will happen. In your reply right above this one you say, “Jesus knew Judas would betray him, but that's the way it had to happen according to God's plan.”
Well, was it God's plan or not.
According to you, God can't have a plan because our free will keeps messing it up.No wonder God seems to be always angry.
TimQuote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 17 2011,04:31) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 16 2011,15:26) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 16 2011,12:06) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 16 2011,04:42) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 16 2011,09:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2011,04:43) I can't speak to Jepthah's sacrifice of his daughter.
I can't move beyond this first sentence.Do you really have no comment on whether or not sacrificing virgins to God is an acceptable practice?
If not, I can think of only one thing to say:
Quote Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things — that takes religion.
(Quote from Steven Weinberg)
wityou do not understand what is going on here right ?
first Jepthah made a pledge,God has nothing to do with it ,
and God probably made it that it is his daugther that would be the first out ,from now on it was the words of Jepthah that would become either his blessing or his downfall,
just remember we all be judged by our own words ,you and I included ,so what is your word worth ? what would you have done in Jepthah situation ??Pierre
I'll tell you what I would have done, I would have said God please forgive me just like when I do any other sin
BodWhat man sews is what a man reaps,
If you make a commitment and do not hold you to it ,you are a man without a word and so can not be trusted,
You flooding but go now were,
Pierre
Your whole belief is based on reaping what you didn't sow, right?You didn't earn etrnal life or salvation, you believe that Jesus reaped what you sowed that is your whole belief you deserve death but Jesus took your place.
bodQuote Pierre
Your whole belief is based on reaping what you didn't sow, right?[/QUOTE]NO,I WAS TALKING ABOUT MEN BEHAVIOR,IF YOU DO NOT HAVE TRUTH WHAT DO YOU HAVE ?LIES ?
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE PRINCIPALS IN YOUR LIVE THEN WHAT DO YOU DO TOWARD THE OUTSIDE INFLUENCES? FOLLOW THEM ?
THIS COULD BE FOR THE WORST,?IF YOU TALK FOR THE ONLY REASON TO MAKE NOISE THEN YOU ARE A FOOL ,IF YOU ARE A MEN OF TRUTH AND HONOR HIS WORDS THEN YOU ARE A MAN WORTH LISTEN TO,
scriptures says ;WISDOM IS PROVING RIGHT BY IS ACTION
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2011,05:46) NO,I WAS TALKING ABOUT MEN BEHAVIOR,IF YOU DO NOT HAVE TRUTH WHAT DO YOU HAVE ?LIES ?
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE PRINCIPALS IN YOUR LIVE THEN WHAT DO YOU DO TOWARD THE OUTSIDE INFLUENCES? FOLLOW THEM ?
THIS COULD BE FOR THE WORST,?IF YOU TALK FOR THE ONLY REASON TO MAKE NOISE THEN YOU ARE A FOOL ,IF YOU ARE A MEN OF TRUTH AND HONOR HIS WORDS THEN YOU ARE A MAN WORTH LISTEN TO,
scriptures says ;WISDOM IS PROVING RIGHT BY IS ACTION
Pierre
The fact is your belief is not about “your” actions but the actions of Jesus Christ who, you say has reaped what you have sown regardless if he was guiltless.I'm not trying to be funny but why won't you guys that believe that Jesus died on the Cross as the fulfillment of an eternal plan just be bold and truthful about it.
You truly believe that innocent blood should and does pay for the guilty, right?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 16 2011,08:26) Does the scripture say God asked for, or approved this sacrifice? If not, then I can't speak about how God felt or reacted to this situation, because I truly don't know.
Yes, and you already quoted the offending verses favorably.Leviticus 27:28-29:
Quote Nevertheless, anything which a man sets apart to the LORD out of all that he has, of man or animal or of the fields of his own property, shall not be sold or redeemed. Anything devoted to destruction is most holy to the LORD. No one who may have been set apart among men shall be ransomed; he shall surely be put to death. This is part of the “Law”. It is a righteous act to perform a human sacrifice according to your bible.
Do you disagree with it?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 17 2011,13:18) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2011,05:46) NO,I WAS TALKING ABOUT MEN BEHAVIOR,IF YOU DO NOT HAVE TRUTH WHAT DO YOU HAVE ?LIES ?
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE PRINCIPALS IN YOUR LIVE THEN WHAT DO YOU DO TOWARD THE OUTSIDE INFLUENCES? FOLLOW THEM ?
THIS COULD BE FOR THE WORST,?IF YOU TALK FOR THE ONLY REASON TO MAKE NOISE THEN YOU ARE A FOOL ,IF YOU ARE A MEN OF TRUTH AND HONOR HIS WORDS THEN YOU ARE A MAN WORTH LISTEN TO,
scriptures says ;WISDOM IS PROVING RIGHT BY IS ACTION
Pierre
The fact is your belief is not about “your” actions but the actions of Jesus Christ who, you say has reaped what you have sown regardless if he was guiltless.I'm not trying to be funny but why won't you guys that believe that Jesus died on the Cross as the fulfillment of an eternal plan just be bold and truthful about it.
You truly believe that innocent blood should and does pay for the guilty, right?
BodYou never answer questions right .?
And so change subject ,create a diversion ,
And for your last sentence question,No I do not believe that ,the righteous that dies by the hands of a unrighteous just make many guilty of murder and so will reap in do time for what they have sowed,
Just like those people that follows men religion like the Koran ,are rejecting Jehovah God as their creator and can not expect more than what is common to men to receive ,they say they like Christ but they kill Christians in their repective countries ,look in the news ,Egypt,,,,,,
My question is is there truth in a liar heart ??NO this is the ones that killed Christ.
Pierre
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 16 2011,06:07) In your reply right above this one you say, “Jesus knew Judas would betray him, but that's the way it had to happen according to God's plan.”
Yes, I just noticed that while re-reading what I wrote yesterday. It was a bad choice of wording. I don't think God “planned” for Judas to betray His Son. I believe God “knew” how things would play out before they did.I should have said, “according to God's word”, or “according to the prophecy in Ps 41:9”.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 16 2011,04:15) If that's true Judas is just as responsible for your salvation since you attribute the cross the key to your salvation
If you choose to see it that way, I suppose. But if you do, then don't stop there. You must also consider that Satan is resposible for our salvation, because without him, we might not have ever needed a savior.Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 16 2011,04:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 16 2011,13:22) God KNOWING that the Israelites would constantly disobey Him is different than Him PLANNING for them to do so – as if He purposely caused this behavior.
So God didn't plan the crucifixion as a means of salvation? You agree with me that God didn't purposely cause the Israelites to plot murdering Jesus HE just knew they would do it right?
Hey Asana,I've got an idea. Instead of going through thousands of “could have beens” and “might have beens”, why not just spell out for us what YOU think happened?
WE believe that Jesus was crucified, and died as a result. YOU apparently believe that the death of Jesus was FAKED, as if God played a big, funny joke on everyone.
Walk us through YOUR understanding, just so we have a “jumping off” point.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 16 2011,13:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 16 2011,08:26) Does the scripture say God asked for, or approved this sacrifice? If not, then I can't speak about how God felt or reacted to this situation, because I truly don't know.
Yes, and you already quoted the offending verses favorably.Leviticus 27:28-29:
Nevertheless, anything which a man sets apart to the LORD out of all that he has, of man or animal or of the fields of his own property, shall not be sold or redeemed. Anything devoted to destruction is most holy to the LORD. No one who may have been set apart among men shall be ransomed; he shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 27:28 speaks of a circumstance such as Samuel's. His mother totally devoted Samuel to Jehovah. That meant that she couldn't later change her mind, and redeem him for a lamb or bull, etc. Samuel belonged to Jehovah until the day he died.Verse 29 speaks of something completely different. It speaks of what is described in 1 Samuel 15.
3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] everything that belongs to them.
Footnote [a]: The Hebrew term refers to the irrevocable giving over of things or persons to the LORD, often by totally destroying them; also in verses 8, 9, 15, 18, 20 and 21.
But Saul did not totally destroy the men and animals, for he spared the King and the best of the beasts. And according to the law in Leviticus 27:29, since those things were most holy to Jehovah after being devoted to destruction, Saul messed up and payed a heavy price for his failure.
The Amalekites were devoted, not “by” men, but “of”, or “from among” men, to which the passage pertains.
Neither of those verses have to do with the personal vow of Jepthah, nor do they speak of God's instruction and/or approval concerning human sacrifices.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2011,09:17) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 16 2011,06:07) In your reply right above this one you say, “Jesus knew Judas would betray him, but that's the way it had to happen according to God's plan.”
Yes, I just noticed that while re-reading what I wrote yesterday. It was a bad choice of wording. I don't think God “planned” for Judas to betray His Son. I believe God “knew” how things would play out before they did.I should have said, “according to God's word”, or “according to the prophecy in Ps 41:9”.
Psalm 411Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.
2The LORD will preserve him, and keep him alive; and he shall be blessed upon the earth: and thou wilt not deliver him unto the will of his enemies.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2011,11:17) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 16 2011,04:15) If that's true Judas is just as responsible for your salvation since you attribute the cross the key to your salvation
If you choose to see it that way, I suppose. But if you do, then don't stop there. You must also consider that Satan is resposible for our salvation, because without him, we might not have ever needed a savior.
That would be a logical component of “your belief” I according to the scriptures believe that “you sin” so it is up to you to repentQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2011,11:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 16 2011,04:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 16 2011,13:22) God KNOWING that the Israelites would constantly disobey Him is different than Him PLANNING for them to do so – as if He purposely caused this behavior.
So God didn't plan the crucifixion as a means of salvation? You agree with me that God didn't purposely cause the Israelites to plot murdering Jesus HE just knew they would do it right?
Hey Asana,I've got an idea. Instead of going through thousands of “could have beens” and “might have beens”, why not just spell out for us what YOU think happened?
WE believe that Jesus was crucified, and died as a result. YOU apparently believe that the death of Jesus was FAKED, as if God played a big, funny joke on everyone.
Walk us through YOUR understanding, just so we have a “jumping off” point.
It's simple GOD SAVED JESUSQuote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 17 2011,13:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2011,09:17) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 16 2011,06:07) In your reply right above this one you say, “Jesus knew Judas would betray him, but that's the way it had to happen according to God's plan.”
Yes, I just noticed that while re-reading what I wrote yesterday. It was a bad choice of wording. I don't think God “planned” for Judas to betray His Son. I believe God “knew” how things would play out before they did.I should have said, “according to God's word”, or “according to the prophecy in Ps 41:9”.
Psalm 411Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.
2The LORD will preserve him, and keep him alive; and he shall be blessed upon the earth: and thou wilt not deliver him unto the will of his enemies.
Hi BD,John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
It's funny how you put your 'book of fraud' above Jesus' own words, and also above the words of the bible.
B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 16 2011,20:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2011,11:19) WE believe that Jesus was crucified, and died as a result. YOU apparently believe that the death of Jesus was FAKED, as if God played a big, funny joke on everyone. Walk us through YOUR understanding…………
It's simple GOD SAVED JESUS
Please explain. Did God fake the death of Jesus? Did everyone who saw Jesus die have a false vision put in their minds? When they carried Jesus' dead body off and put it in the cave, was Jesus just playing 'possum?Walk us through that day, from the sentencing to the burial.
Mike Perhaps you should read BD comments on sacrifice to fully understand what he is speaking of, he is not saying as the Gnostic do, the jesus was a phantom, he speaks that another took his place to be sacrificed i.e. Abraham was given a ram to replace his son.
Why does Jesus cry out Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?
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