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Hi Keith,
1 Corinthians 15:27 New International Version (©1984)
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.Keith, who is the “God Himself” mentioned in this scripture?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 03 2011,19:09) Hi Keith, 1 Corinthians 15:27 New International Version (©1984)
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.Keith, who is the “God Himself” mentioned in this scripture?
mike
The Father!Now what? What does that prove?
Why are you wasting t8's precious “bits” creating a thread for a question?
Since OUR god, Jesus at this time is not even subject to the Father but rules and reigns the universe with all authority and power sitting in the Throne of god as god, now what?
Prove Jesus is not god! You lose Mike since you claim there are other gods.
Jesus not only has the title “god” but he also fulfills the role of God in every sense of the word. Do you know any gods like that Mike?
Does 1 Cor 15:27 prove Jesus is not god?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 04 2011,08:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 03 2011,19:09) Hi Keith, 1 Corinthians 15:27 New International Version (©1984)
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.Keith, who is the “God Himself” mentioned in this scripture?
mike
The Father!
Hi Keith,How do you know?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 04 2011,08:40) Does 1 Cor 15:27 prove Jesus is not god?
It proves that Jesus is SOMEONE OTHER THAN “God Himself”, doesn't it?mike
Hi Mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 04 2011,22:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 04 2011,08:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 03 2011,19:09) Hi Keith, 1 Corinthians 15:27 New International Version (©1984)
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.Keith, who is the “God Himself” mentioned in this scripture?
mike
The Father!
Hi Keith,How do you know?
Because God the Father and God the Son is spoken of in the verse, and we know that the Father returned back to Jesus what he left when he came into this world in the likeness of sinful flesh and has now returned to his previous Glory that he shared with the Father as the Word that was with God and was God.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 04 2011,22:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 04 2011,08:40) Does 1 Cor 15:27 prove Jesus is not god?
It proves that Jesus is SOMEONE OTHER THAN “God Himself”, doesn't it?
Yes, we know that Jesus is not the Father but once again…“How does that prove Jesus is not God?”Even you admit that Jesus is your god!
Isn't Jesus fulfilling the role of God in your life at this time or not?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 05 2011,09:08) Yes, we know that Jesus is not the Father but once again…”How does that prove Jesus is not God?”
Hi Keith,I think I'm worn down from doing this. You make so many nonsensical claims defending your comically flawed, man-made doctrine……………and I've grown weary of arguing with a crazy mind. If many scriptures say Jesus is the “Son of God”, and begotten by God, then any rational person would know for a fact that Jesus isn't the God he is the Son of. You don't know this.
Look at it from the sane side of the argument once:
If you read something in the news about the son of President Obama, you would know that this news was not about President Obama himself, but about the one he brought forth.
Now imagine me trying to convince you that President Obama's son is the same being as President Obama, and he is not the “son of the President”, but instead “President, the son”. You would immediately think I was crazy for claiming such nonsense.
And that's how most of us here look at you. I thought I could scripturally show you how asinine your doctrine was…………..and I have. But when I point out that the servant OF God can't BE God, you brush it aside as if the scriptures don't really say this. Or worse, you start to claim all kinds of crazy things like Jack did when he claimed that he and his dad are the SAME BEING – just to keep in form with the nonsense his doctrine promotes. The words you post are mostly nonsense Keith. Here, look at your latest example that you will argue until death:
Quote Yes, we know that Jesus is not the Father but once again…”How does that prove Jesus is not God?”
The scripture doesn't say “it is clear that this does not include THE FATHER himself, who put everything under Christ.” The scripture says it doesn't include “GOD HIMSELF, who put everything under Christ”.I just don't have the patience anymore to read your nonsensical explanations how “Christ” in this scripture can still be God when he is so clearly distinguished as someone other than “God Himself”.
The “HIMself” should be enough to convince any rational person Keith, but you are not a rational person.
Anyway, these little threads I started to get to the heart of our discussions move too slowly and I have to wade through too much of your crazy statements to get anywhere. I'm done.
I am not refusing to talk with you anymore. I will still take what you call “pop shots” at the nonsense you post whenever I want to. I just have grown bored discussing scriptural things with someone who can't see the forest for the trees.
Keith, if Jesus is the Son OF God, then he is not God Himself, but the Son OF that One.
If he is the servant OF God, then the same applies. Also for Lamb OF God, Christ OF God, Preist OF God, etc, etc.
If he mediates between us and God, then he is not God.
If he makes fervent supplication to his God in our behalf, then he is not God.
If he was begotten BY GOD, in ANY sense of the word, then he is not God.
If he is the firstborn of ANYTHING, then he is not God. Can you even imagine calling the Father “the FIRSTBORN of creation” because He is preeminent over it?
Is the Father the firstBORN of anything? Of course not, because even if you take it as an “applied” position, then someone had to apply it to that one. Who “applies” anything to our God?Keith, in so MANY of your claims, you take the word “God” in the scripture and change it in your mind to “Father”. But “Father” is not what the scripture says most of the time. Jesus is distinguished as someone OTHER THAN and LESSOR TO “GOD” so many times in scripture, but you refuse to see it. You automatically in your head think, “Oh, that word 'GOD' must be a reference to the Father, so my doctrine still fits.” But the word is NOT “the Father”, but “GOD”.
For example, “I thank GOD for Jesus Christ” EXPLICITELY says Jesus Christ is NOT God. But you think in your mind that the scripture says, “I thank THE FATHER for Jesus Christ”. Well guess what? You are wrong because the scripture DOESN'T say “the Father”, but “God”. And the scripture clearly identifies Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the One the scripture identifies as “GOD”.
Rational people can see this Keith. You cannot because your mind has been blinded by the god of this world.
Keith, don't bother answering to this post. It was simply a “farewell” letter letting you know why I am cutting off all lengthy discussions with you. Sorry dude, I've argued against crazy long enough. You surely know how I feel when you post the actual words of scripture to Paladin (Martian?) and then have to read the nonsense THOSE guys come up with to change the meaning of clearly written scriptures.
I mean, if Jesus says the words, “I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN”, then what more is really left to debate? Surely you understand this, because you actually agree with the scriptures on the pre-existence issue. And surely you know how frustrating and maddening it is to say, “DUDE! Jesus himself said HE came down from heaven!” and have them claim out of nowhere that it was only the “thought of him in God's head” or whatever.
This is how it is for me to discuss the trinity with you. And I've simply grown weary of it.
peace and love to you Keith,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 05 2011,09:08) Yes, we know that Jesus is not the Father but once again…”How does that prove Jesus is not God?”
Hi Keith,I think I'm worn down from doing this.
Hi MikeI would be too if I were you. How can someone defend a position like yours? You have admitted Jesus is god over all believers in heaven and earth and that you have and serve two gods but then you say there is only “One God”. You can’t answer my question because it would show you that in reality Jesus is “Our Lord and God” who is supreme over all and whether you believe he is God or not, he is completely and totally in the role of God by sitting in the throne of God. Only God can sit in his throne and does not share his Glory with another.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) You make so many nonsensical claims defending your comically flawed, man-made doctrine……………and I've grown weary of arguing with a crazy mind.
Well I am not the one saying that Jesus is my god but then say the Father alone is god, am I?I am not the one saying there is “Only One True god” but there are other true gods.
I am not the one saying Jesus was an angel who ceased to be an angel and then returned to being an angel.
I am not the one saying that “all creation” came through Jesus but Jesus was created.
I am not the one saying that there is more than one beginning before the ages.
I could go on, but it seems to me that you are the one with the crazy mind.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) If many scriptures say Jesus is the “Son of God”, and begotten by God, then any rational person would know for a fact that Jesus isn't the God he is the Son of. You don't know this.
You don’t know that to see Jesus as the Son of God meant to the Jews that he was claiming he was God and the Apostle John understood his words the same way. You don’t see that to know Jesus as the Son of God takes divine revelation. You don’t see that the term “Son of God” doesn’t mean he isn’t God no more than the term “Son of Man” means he is not man.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) But when I point out that the servant OF God can't BE God, you brush it aside as if the scriptures don't really say this.
But when we point out your straw man that “Jesus can’t be the God he is the son of” is like saying Jesus is not man of which he is the Son of, but you just ignore it and brush it off. When we point out that the relationship the Father and the Son have is perfectly One and the fact that Jesus is not a servant but has all authority and power and sits in the throne of God ruling as God, then you just brush it off. We have shown you how Jesus shares attributes with the Father that only God himself shares like Omnipotent, and Omnipresent, but you just blow that off. When we show you that Jesus was there before time, matter and space which can only mean he is and was the “Eternal life” that was always with the Father, then you just blow it off.There is “Only One God” that rules the universe right now and his name is Jesus.
WJ
Hi Mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) Or worse, you start to claim all kinds of crazy things like Jack did when he claimed that he and his dad are the SAME BEING – just to keep in form with the nonsense his doctrine promotes.
You don’t like the fact that the Bible itself teaches two can be ‘One Flesh”. The Bible teaches there are many members in “One New Man (being) ” called the “Body” or “Bride of Christ”.You don’t like the terms “one Mankind” or “one Godkind”, because to admit that Jesus is the “Only Monogenes Son of God” would mean he is God just as to be the “Son of man” means he is man.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) The words you post are mostly nonsense Keith.
Are you looking in the mirror Mike?Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) Here, look at your latest example that you will argue until death: Quote Yes, we know that Jesus is not the Father but once again…”How does that prove Jesus is not God?”
The scripture doesn't say “it is clear that this does not include THE FATHER himself, who put everything under Christ.” The scripture says it doesn't include “GOD HIMSELF, who put everything under Christ”.I just don't have the patience anymore to read your nonsensical explanations how “Christ” in this scripture can still be God when he is so clearly distinguished as someone other than “God Himself”.
It is real simple Mike. The word “god” as you have said yourself is a title and is not a word exclusive to the Father because not only do we see Jesus as God in scriptures but he is in every way fulfilling the role of God, then we have the so-called gods who are not gods at all in word, power or deed.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) The “HIMself” should be enough to convince any rational person Keith, but you are not a rational person.
A rational person doesn’t say that Jesus is their god and then says he is not god.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) Anyway, these little threads I started to get to the heart of our discussions move too slowly and I have to wade through too much of your crazy statements to get anywhere. I'm done.
You’re creating these little threads IMO is to distract and confuse.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) I am not refusing to talk with you anymore. I will still take what you call “pop shots” at the nonsense you post whenever I want to.
Dittos!Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) I just have grown bored discussing scriptural things with someone who can't see the forest for the trees.
Spoken by the one who says Jesus is a servant to his god right now but in reality the forest is Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God. You can’t overcome the present facts. But you choose to close your eyes to any possibility that one with all authority and power both in heaven and earth can be God.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) Keith, if Jesus is the Son OF God, then he is not God Himself, but the Son OF that One.
Blah Blah Blah! How long will you keep building this straw man? When it is convenient you use the word god as if it is a name. Of course he is not the Father a term that you seem to have a problem with because you hardly ever refer to the Father as Father.Does “Son of man” mean one is not man? Burn that straw man down again.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) If he is the servant OF God, then the same applies. Also for Lamb OF God, Christ OF God, Preist OF God, etc, etc.
Where is the scripture that says Jesus is a servant at this time? He hasn’t subjected himself to the Father yet has he? And when he does it will have nothing to do with his nature not being one God with the Father for he will still rule and reign with the Father throughout eternity for the “Increase of His (Jesus) Kingdom will never end”.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) If he mediates between us and God, then he is not God.
To be a true Mediator he has to be both God and man or he could not possibly be a “Perfect Mediator”. He is God according to the Spirit and man according to the flesh.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) If he makes fervent supplication to his God in our behalf, then he is not God.
What is supplication except a request? Jesus said…”COME UNTO ME”, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matt 11:28But you anti-Jesus is God crowd don’t go to Jesus but you think you are going to the Father by just invoking Jesus name. When is the last time you went to Jesus and called him your Lord and asked him for rest?
Just think about it Mike, how could Jesus hear all the prayers and bear all the burdens of every human being and be with them all at the same time if he were not god?
How could Jesus dwell in the hearts and lives of every believer, leading and guiding them if he is not god?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:
44)If he was begotten BY GOD, in ANY sense of the word, then he is not God.
Wrong, once again that is like saying that if you are begotten by your earthly Father then you are not man Why do you stick your head in the sand here?Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) If he is the firstborn of ANYTHING, then he is not God. Can you even imagine calling the Father “the FIRSTBORN of creation” because He is preeminent over it?
That is because you deny that the Hebrew term firstborn Son can mean preeminence and not just the literal firstborn. You also brush aside the fact if Jesus is literally the “Firstborn” of creation as in pro-creation then who was the second and the third, etc.Was all of creation literally born as in procreation from the Father?
If not why do you assume the same for Jesus?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) Is the Father the firstBORN of anything? Of course not, because even if you take it as an “applied” position, then someone had to apply it to that one. Who “applies” anything to our God?
Be honest mike, when you say “Our God” you should be talking about the Father and the Son. There are many titles that Jesus has that do not apply to the Father “but that still doesn’t mean that the Jesus we serve is right at this moment God to us, God with us, and God in us”!
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,10:36)
You don’t know that to see Jesus as the Son of God meant to the Jews that he was claiming he was God and the Apostle John understood his words the same way.
Wrong. The Jews themselves told Jesus that the only FATHER they had was God Himself. Were they claiming that they were all equal to God at the same time they were condemning Jesus for saying it? And John never agreed that Jesus was “equal to God” – but instead was explaining what the Jews were claiming. And the Jewish understanding that a son was “equal to” his father was not the way you pretend to understand it, and NEVER implied that a son was the SAME BEING as his father or equal in every way. But most importantly, when the Jews made this false accusation about Jesus making himself equal to God, he IMMEDIATELY and CLEARY set them straight on their misunderstanding. Why do you always forget to mention that part?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,10:36)
But when we point out your straw man that “Jesus can’t be the God he is the son of” is like saying Jesus is not man of which he is the Son of, but you just ignore it and brush it off.
I haven't brushed it off, but instead have addressed it very clearly many times in many ways. Just look at the word game you're playing here, Keith. You use “THE God” versus “man”. You don't use “THE man” to make the comparison accurate. Just as no human can be THE man he is the son of, Jesus cannot be THE God he is the Son of.When one compares apples to apples, a better understanding is the result.
But this is why I won't do these long, drawn out discussions with you anymore. It's not that I don't like you, for I do. It's simply because debating with you about the trinity is for me the same as debating with Marty and Paladin about the pre-existence of Jesus is for you. They use many word games and imaginary alternate meanings to change the real meaning of “I came down from heaven”, and what can you and I really say to them when they do this? We can only point out that Jesus said he came down from heaven and let them either believe it or not.
Similarly, I can only point out to you that “Son OF God” doesn't equal “God the Son” so many times until I'm doing nothing but beating my head against a wall. Well, I have a headache from it, and so will stick to making “pop shots” at your posts from now on.
Keith, I spent many countless hours trying to get you to acknowledge the GRAMMATICAL POSSIBILITY of “a god”. It has been the truth of the matter since John first wrote it, as attested to by the many Trinitarian scholars I quoted. You should have said, “Yes Mike, it could be 'a god', 'the god' or 'god' according to the actual Greek words, but I don't think 'a god' is right because……………….” That would have made a good discussion Keith. But when I have to spend months trying to “trick you” into saying what everyone knows to be the truth just so we can BEGIN the discussion, it becomes clear to me that your “own truth” is all you're interested in, and that you are willing to cause diversions for months in an effort to keep the actual discussion about which translation is best from even beginnning.
It is the same in the “One Question for Keith” thread. Your own words say that the ONE Paul LISTED as our “one God” is the Father, and Jesus is NOT the Father. But then you turn around and answer the question about Paul LISTING Jesus as our “one God” the same way as you did before I “tricked you” into admitting the truth of the matter. What more can I do against such tactics? It's sad really, that you don't have enough faith that “your own truth” is sufficiently taught in the scriptures and so you must draw out the most simple of questions into a months long visit to the loony bin for me.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 05 2011,08:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 03 2011,19:09) Hi Keith, 1 Corinthians 15:27 New International Version (©1984)
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.Keith, who is the “God Himself” mentioned in this scripture?
mike
The Father!Now what? What does that prove?
Why are you wasting t8's precious “bits” creating a thread for a question?
Since OUR god, Jesus at this time is not even subject to the Father but rules and reigns the universe with all authority and power sitting in the Throne of god as god, now what?
Prove Jesus is not god! You lose Mike since you claim there are other gods.
Jesus not only has the title “god” but he also fulfills the role of God in every sense of the word. Do you know any gods like that Mike?
Does 1 Cor 15:27 prove Jesus is not god?
WJ
WJso when the manager does apply his management skills that he received from his boss ,he is now the boss?
why would the boss interfere in the action of his manager ?he his the one that hired him to do that and fill the position.
God and Christ is no different,God give the authority to Christ to do what has to be done ,why would he interfere with it ,God knows that Christ will do all according to his will ,Jesus was obedient until dead.
REV 19;11whose rider is called Faithful and True
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 08 2011,14:06) Pierre Once again this is the debate thread please edit and delet your post.
WJ
wjsorry can not do it
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,12:01) Where is the scripture that says Jesus is a servant at this time?
Jesus is called God's SERVANT 4 different times in the Book of Acts.But just for one example, read the prayer in Acts 4. They clearly pray TO the ONE who created the universe and EVERYTHING in it. You want to take the words “all” and “nothing” so literally when it suits your doctrine, so why not take the word “all” literally here? Jesus is most definitely one of the things in the universe, and this scripture says God created ALL things in the universe – so that would include Jesus, right?
Anyway, you can see from this prayer that they prayed TO God…………….THROUGH His “Holy Servant Jesus Christ”.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2011,15:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,12:01) Where is the scripture that says Jesus is a servant at this time?
Jesus is called God's SERVANT 4 different times in the Book of Acts.
The word can be translated as “child or man”.How is Jesus a servant to the Father if he has not subjected himself and the Kingdom to the Father?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,12:01)
To be a true Mediator he has to be both God and man or he could not possibly be a “Perfect Mediator”.
What?!?!? So God Himself is the Mediator BETWEEN God and mankind? A more nonsensical statement has never been uttered on HN. Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,12:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2011,19:44) If he is the firstborn of ANYTHING, then he is not God. Can you even imagine calling the Father “the FIRSTBORN of creation” because He is preeminent over it?
That is because you deny that the Hebrew term firstborn Son can mean preeminence and not just the literal firstborn.
Just answer the question Keith. Is the Father the “firstborn” of anyone or anything? After all, He IS the One who is preeminent over His own creation, right? So would you call the Father “the firstborn of all creation”?mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2011,15:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,12:01) Where is the scripture that says Jesus is a servant at this time?
But just for one example, read the prayer in Acts 4. They clearly pray TO the ONE who created the universe and EVERYTHING in it. You want to take the words “all” and “nothing” so literally when it suits your doctrine, so why not take the word “all” literally here? Jesus is most definitely one of the things in the universe, and this scripture says God created ALL things in the universe – so that would include Jesus, right?
Thanks for pointing that out Mike because everything in the Universe was created by the Father and Jesus…Remember “Nothing” came into being without him, Jesus. John 1:1-3 – Col 1:16-19 – Heb 1:2
So your proof text in context of the NT scriptures makes Jesus equal to the Father.
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2011,15:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,12:01)
To be a true Mediator he has to be both God and man or he could not possibly be a “Perfect Mediator”.
What?!?!? So God Himself is the Mediator BETWEEN God and mankind? A more nonsensical statement has never been uttered on HN.
That is the main tenet of the Christian faith you deny. Jesus was and is the Word that was with God and was God and came in the likeness of sinful flesh. Why do you deny the truth of the scripture that Jesus is our God and we have Only One God?WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2011,15:49)
Just answer the question Keith. Is the Father the “firstborn” of anyone or anything? After all, He IS the One who is preeminent over His own creation, right? So would you call the Father “the firstborn of all creation”?
What you demand I answer a question when you have not answered at least 5 of mine in the previous page?But I will answer “NO” the term “firstborn” does not apply to the Father no more than the term “Son” belongs to the Father. So what???
Does that prove Jesus is not God identically like the Father in nature like a human son is in nature identical to his Father.
That is simple logic and since we know that there is Only One God and One Spirit that we drink of and that Spirit is the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit then we know that they are the One God that we serve.
Since Jesus in every way fulfills the role of being God then that means “to us” he is God. All the fullness of that which makes God, God is Jesus in bodily form.
By Jesus (God) all things consist.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,14:47)
The word can be translated as “child or man”.
It can be translated as “child” when it refers to a “child”. And even so, a child OF someone is NOT that someone Keith.It is never translated as “man”, although it is once used to refer to the “young man” who fell out of the window. This implies the young man who fell was an adolescent.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,14:47)
How is Jesus a servant to the Father if he has not subjected himself and the Kingdom to the Father?
First, he is a servant of God because the scriptures say he is. Second, all who worship, serve and call the Father “my God” are servants of Him – and Jesus fits into this category.And finally, follow your nonsense all the way through for once: 1 Cor 15 tells us that when it says God subjected “all things” to Jesus, it does not include God Himself, who is the One who subjected all things to Jesus. You take this to be proof, not that God is greater because He is the One with the power to subject all things to another, but that Jesus is equally God. That thought in itself doesn't make sense because if they are both equally God, then why in the world would One of them have to subject all things to the other? Wouldn't all things already be subject to the other – seeing that the other was also God? (As a side note, look at the nonsense I myself have to post just to have a conversation with you. Here I am, supposedly talking about our ONE GOD, but using words like “one of them and the other of them”.
)Anyway, to continue my thought: You understand this to mean that Jesus is not subject to his God, and his God is not subject to him, right? But when Jesus DOES subject himself to God, what is the reason and the result? Isn't it “so GOD can be all in all”?
So we have ONE, who subjects himself to GOD, so that GOD can be all in all, yet you think it says that God Almighty subjects Himself to God Almighty, so that God Almighty can be all in all.
It's pure nonsense Keith, and I can't for the life of me get you to see this.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,14:53) Thanks for pointing that out Mike because everything in the Universe was created by the Father and Jesus…
Say it scripturally Keith, or don't say it at all, okay?Everything was created by GOD, period. Our “one God” is “the Father”, period. Therefore, everything was created by the Father, including His own firstborn Son.
Proverbs 8:22 NET ©
The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2011,16:14) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,14:53) Thanks for pointing that out Mike because everything in the Universe was created by the Father and Jesus…
Say it scripturally Keith, or don't say it at all, okay?Everything was created by GOD, period. Our “one God” is “the Father”, period. Therefore, everything was created by the Father, including His own firstborn Son.
Proverbs 8:22 NET ©
The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.mike
MikeI don't see the words firstborn son or Jesus in that scripture do you.
You have to do better than inference.
WJ
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