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Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2011,20:18) Having divine nature exactly like the Father does mean that one is God. Partaking of it does not.
So when Jesus partook of human nature, he wasn't really a human?Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2011,19:39) Jesus always had His divinity nature and with the incarnation, He also took on the nature of humanity. He although glorified, still has these two natures even now and that is one reason He calls us 'brethren.'
Oh I see now. Jesus DOES actually HAVE human nature even though scripture says he “partook” of it.
But we won't acutally HAVE divine nature because scripture says we only partake of it?Seems to me like a double standard to further a doctrine.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2011,19:39) If something is self-existing, then it came from nothing but itself.
So now Jesus didn't even come FROM the Father, but from himself?
When did you add this little tidbit to your “doctrine in the works”?Btw, I didn't say I had problems understanding the concept of “from eternity”. I said I didn't understand what you meant from your new phrase “self-existing”. Now I know what you mean. Unfortunately for you, neither one of them is supported by scripture.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2011,19:39) According to His humanity, He is our mediator/intercessor/High Priest/Brother/the Lamb…according to His divinity He is Judge, everlasting Father, the First and the Last, Lord, God as the Son, etc.
One problem: Jesus is no longer a human being. He is a life-giving spirit. The promise was never that Jesus would remain as we are, but that we could someday be as he is. And t8 is right – why can't you people just take the scriptures for what they clearly say? The scriptures say “Son OF God” many, many times. They NEVER say “God the Son” or “God as the Son”, or any of these other concoctions you guys have made up for yourselves.T8, thank you for your post, and for driving home the very important fact that the actual Church was founded on one very important Rock: That Jesus is the Christ, the Son OF the Living God.
Mike,
The Father always existed, you know that right? The Son was in Him. You deny that the scriptures call Him 'our great God and Savior.'Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
Romans 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Also, Jesus is the eternal High Priest according to His humanity and called a man after the resurrection.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,He is still both God and man.
Kathi
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2011,21:33) Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2011,19:39) Jesus always had His divinity nature and with the incarnation, He also took on the nature of humanity. He although glorified, still has these two natures even now and that is one reason He calls us 'brethren.'
Oh I see now. Jesus DOES actually HAVE human nature even though scripture says he “partook” of it. But we won't acutally HAVE divine nature because scripture says we only partake of it?Seems to me like a double standard to further a doctrine.
Mike,
Think about it, there is a big difference to start out as having divine nature and taking on human nature with it and those believers who start out as human nature and then partake of divine nature. You can't become God. Sorry to burst your bubble.Kathi
Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 29 2011,12:50) No, I understood you well. You appear to equate love with being nice to people, which is not the biblical definition. The best advice I can give you is to do a couple of scripture studies. Study: 1. The theme of truth, and pay attention to the importance to which Yeshua, his followers and the OT & NT authors ascribe to it.
2. The manner which Yeshua, his follower and NT writers conduct themselves when contending for truth with detractors.
You'll discover that, biblically-speaking, truth is given much higher status than the feelings of people. Which is not to say that unfriendly engagement is the default setting, it's not. But it does tell you that truth itself is more important than the delivery mechanism.
Is,There was more to the story than what I put, so I was speaking in riddles… sorry…
I agree with you.
Lets just leave it at that, OK.
Quote (shimmer @ May 29 2011,19:03) Is, There was more to the story than what I put, so I was speaking in riddles… sorry…
I agree with you.
Lets just leave it at that, OK.
Okay, fine with me. Be well.Kathi and All,
Romans 9:5… '…who is over all, Eternally blessed God, Amen'
Does anyone think that this statement is pertaining to Jesus? How?
Jesus, even if 'called' God – Mighty One – CANNOT POSSIBLY BE 'Eternal God' because his reign as 'God' is only 'UNTIL ALL THINGS ARE PUT UNDER HIS FEET'.
Then he hands the rulership of HIS FATHER's Kingdom BACK TO GOD, his Father!
So then he is no longer that 'God' but is then a MIGHTY RULER over his Own [Sub] Kingdom.
So how is Jesus 'Eternal God' if he, firstly, WAS NOT ETERNAL GOD, then WAS ETERNAL GOD, then IS NOT ETERNAL GOD!
There is only One who WAS, IS, and Always Will Be (Eternally) GOD – YHVH, God Most High, The ONE True God Almighty (Is Jesus ever said to be 'God Almighty'?)And how is the High Priest also the God to whom he himself is High Priest?
And how is a God also High Priest to Himself?
For the High Priest SERVES, and is the director of WORSHIP, to the God he serves!
So Jesus would be Serving And WORSHIPPING HIMSELF!!Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 29 2011,13:33) Oh I see now. Jesus DOES actually HAVE human nature even though scripture says he “partook” of it. But we won't acutally HAVE divine nature because scripture says we only partake of it? Seems to me like a double standard to further a doctrine.
Good post too.Theres God the Father and God the Son. Wheres the issue in that?
There is no other. Who do you think listens when you pray?By using a small 'g' you are putting the Son in the same category as other gods. But he's more than that.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 29 2011,13:18) t8,
Jesus is also called YHWH AND has divine nature.
OK, you say that Jesus is YHWH.
In saying that, you have to then deny that he us the son OF YHWH by reason of him being YHWH. This is a direct and blatant attack on the foundation of the Church, the Body of Christ.But I guess like the Trinity Doctrine, you can try and sell it by tacking on “not two Gods but one God”, because you need to say that for two reason.
1) Because the teaching leads you to 2 Gods as the Trinity leads you to 3.
2) But since 2 or 3 Gods is clearly wrong in scripture, you just put in a clause that says, they are one God to give it the appearance of complimenting scripture.When asked to fully explain, you can say that God is beyond our thinking and thus you might be able to sell the lie without having to explain the foolish dilema of being God and the son of God at the same time, (son of yourself).
At least your theory is more simple than the Trinity by only having to justify an extra person as God. However, that is the only advantage. At the end of the day, anyone who teaches that there is more than one true God, (the Father), is meddling with God's truth, the commandments, and the work of the Church over the centuries which was paid for in the blood of our martyred brothers and sisters.
Let's recap:
- There are those who believe that there is one God the Father.They include Jesus, Paul, and the other apostles. This is the foundation true faith is built on.
- There are those that believe that there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. This doctrine was enforced by the Roman Beast and she was given a free ride on her back and made the whole world drunk on her wine.
- And now we have the revival of the predecessor to the Trinity the Binity, which is there is one God the Father, and the Son. Perhaps 60 years later, proponents of this doctrine will add the third member, the Holy Spirit and history repeats itself.
Here is what happens when your doctrine or the Trinity is accepted.
1) Some will eventually try and add us to God as it is written that we will be like Jesus and have a body like his and he will call us brother. If he is God, then so are we because brothers are like kind, they are kindred. Since people can be added, then the path is now paved for saints, and all mothers who gave birth to God are Mothers of God and history repeats itself. A sort of second go at trying to recapture all those who escaped the first induction for Babylon.
Nothing surprises me anymore.
Who wants to argue for a Quadune God. Quick put your hand up now and you will get the credit for starting it. Then set up a tithing system as reward for starting it up. The fourth member can be the bride of Christ. She partakes in divine nature and if she marries God, then she must also be God because whoever heard of an interspecies marriage?People who meddle with the truth of God will receive judgement. It is one of the worse things a person can do. It is better to ignore truth than change it. At least when you ignore it, it only affects you.
T8,
Excellent post… Mirror my thoughts also.I had a falling out with my trine friends when I asked them how God is three but yet one – they said 'God is a Mystery'.
I asked how 'God is a Mystery' when Jesus came to REVEAL HIM – so they ate saying that Jesus didn't do a good job, then!
And how many times have I asked the question 'If Jesus is Son and Heir – and God, then are the Elect not also God – being also Sons and Heirs of God- Brothers to Christ'?
No one of the Jesus-is-God persuasion has ventured to answer – possibly stymied for a response!
T8,
Quadrune?? You mean 144,002 (plus maybe one more)!
A Legion of Gods – a believer would be a Legionarian, perhaps!Is:2,
None will ever be the Father and none will ever be the Son.
Theres an order to things. First God the Father. then God the Son, then everybody else including the Angels. They will never be the Father or Son and neither will we.
Quote (t8 @ May 29 2011,04:41) The fourth member can be the bride of Christ. She partakes in divine nature and if she marries God, then she must also be God because whoever heard of an interspecies marriage?
Not only that, but by marriage, she will become one flesh with God, ensuring that She Herself is also God.But why stop there? Let's go for a quintune God. I nominate Moses.
Deuteronomy 34:12
For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel.
We can see that Moses had his “very own” power.Exodus 7:1
Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.
And we can see that Moses IS God. Heck, not even Jesus had his very own prophet.
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