Psalms 2:7 this day i have begotten you!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 19 2010,22:16)

You seem to be doing alright though.

Hi Shimmer,

Yes, I'm fine thanks.    Remember we talked before about how different people are passionate about different things?  That's all this is.  Don't ever feel pressured by me to comment or “debate” anything.

I just wanted to give you some background leading up to Paul quoting Psalm 2:7 so it didn't seem so “cut and dry” in your mind.  It may look like he's holding the smoking gun, but now you at least know about the “mitigating circumstances” involved.  You are now free to form your own understanding based on ALL of the truth, not just a part of it.  

Thanks for listening.  And thanks for the other conversations too.  I learned something every time.

peace and love,
mike

[shimmer]

No, thank you Mike. And thanks for the information you gave.

[mikeboll64]

[Baker]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2010,13:07)

Quote (Baker @ Aug. 21 2010,15:18) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2010,14:42) Hi Kathi: The scripture states that Jesus is a man, no, not just any man, he is the Son of the living God, but nevertheless he is a man.  That is what the scripture states, and so, please do not try to tell me different than that. I know that no man born of the sperm of man has ever obeyed God without sin even unto death.  He cannot even save himself because of sin. Love in Christ, Marty Are you telling Kathi what to believe?  Are you for real?? Give me a break……Learn from Her because She is right.  Jesus was the firstborn of all creation, it according to Scriptures…. Col. 1:15 and Rev. 3:14 read it…Jesus is Son of man and Son of God.  Earthly and Heavenly….. He came down from heaven John 6:38…..   Peace Irene Hi Irene: No, I am not telling her what to believe nor am I telling you what to believe, but it seems that you are telling me that I must believe as you do because “you are right” and cannot possibly be wrong on this issue. I pray to God every day to correct me if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will, and He has indeed corrected me on many occasions because any Father that loves His children will correct them. I have given both you and Kathi my understanding regarding this issue which is all that I can do.  If you do not agree with me, teach what you believe to be the truth.  Both you and I will be accountable to God for what we teach. Love in Christ, Marty

whatever i quote comes from scriptures. and whatever i will quote someone if it is according from scriptures, i believe….Col. 1:15 and Rev. 3:14 tell me that Christ was the Firstborn of all creation….. I am not telling you what to believe, it is up to every body else, I only quote Scriptures…. It is up to you…not me……as far as I am concerned you can believe what you will, God gave us free will…..

[Baker]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 18 2010,18:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 18 2010,14:35) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 16 2010,17:38) Hi Mike. Yeah I understand so far. They were expecting Messiah to be a man only, not one from Heaven. Not a son of God from Heaven. Hi Shimmer and JA, Matthew 16:15-18 NIV 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. Okay, so we know the Jews were not expecting the Messiah to be the literal Son of God sent from heaven.  And here we see how big of a deal it is when God reveals this information to Peter.  Jesus says he will build his entire church around this revelation from God to Peter. The other Apostles EVER SO SLOWLY started to believe that Jesus was the literal Son of God who came down from heaven.  And over time, many of the disciples also understood.  But this was just a very small handful of people who had this understanding.  The vast majority of the population still had no clue that he was the Messiah, let alone the literal Son of God who came down from heaven.  This clueless “vast majority” is the group of people that Paul preached to.  And what were Paul's two main teachings that he tried to get across to this “vast majority”? Acts 9 NIV Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. 20 At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God. 22 Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Messiah. Paul used the OT scriptures to reason with people and to prove that this Jesus that they had crucified was in fact the promised Messiah.  Guess what else he used OT scriptures to prove?  That's right – that “Jesus is the Son of God” – just like verse 20 above says. So now you have the background Shimmer.  Now maybe you can read Acts 13 in a broader light.  I urge you to re-read Acts 13:16-48.  I will highlight some of it for you now. Verse 22 speaks of King David. 23 says that Jesus is the Savior of Israel from the line of David that God had promised.  You see Shimmer?  God had never promised to the ancestors that someday He would figuratively “beget” someone as His “Son”.  He promised a Messiah – a Savior of Israel.  This is “the promise to the ancestors” that God had fulfilled that Paul speaks of in verses 32 and 33. In verse 27, Paul refers to scripture that foretold years ago about the death of Jesus, and says those who killed him actually fulfilled those old prophecies. Throughout the rest of the speech, Paul uses scripture after scripture to prove that Jesus IS the one who was written about all those years ago by all those different people.   Paul was on a mission to prove two things Shimmer.  One, that Jesus IS the promised Messiah, and two, that Jesus is the real live Son of the living God. So while the wording is a little awkward in verse 33, Paul doesn't refer to the Psalm 2:7 to say “THIS” was the day that God begot Jesus, but only to scripturally prove that Jesus WAS that begotten Son of God mentioned all those years ago. Paul used many OT scriptures to prove that Jesus was the Messiah, for there are many.  But he used Psalm 2:7 over and over to prove that this Messiah was also the literal Son of the living God, for there aren't that many other scriptures he could have used to prove this.  In fact, he only uses one other one in all his letters and speeches. Verse 32 says that God had fulfilled a promise to the ancestors by raising Jesus.  You have to ask yourself honestly, “What promise did Jesus fulfill?”  There was never an “appointed” begotten Son promised by God, but there was a Messiah promised.   Now, if you add this knowledge to John 3:16, in which Jesus says he already IS the only begotten Son that God SENT INTO the world, bells should be ringing.  And if you add that to John saying that God sent His only begotten Son into the world as a sacrifice, red flags should be waving.  Jesus wasn't “sacrificed” for us AFTER he was raised from the dead.  It would make no sense for John to say God sacrificed His only begotten Son if he wasn't God's only begotten Son BEFORE he was sacrificed. Thanks for your patience guys.  Take it for what it's worth to you. peace and love, mike Thankyou Mike. Mike, I have no idea what any of this has to do with our faith, really. When was Jesus 'begotten' well…….why ? Jesus is the only begotten Son……I give up thinking about it now…..He just is the only begotten son of God…..thats all we need to know. Mike, maybe its me ? Years ago I went through this, searching, in all the wrong places as im sure you know. True spirituality with God is to listen and learn with God. Leaning on God …..not our own understanding…. To be spiritually in tune. Have you felt this ? You would have right  ? The more you think about something, the more confusing it becomes.   Dont you find that ?

shimmer! If what you are saying is true, then you are easily taken back, from what you first thought was the truth, and then when someone else again, changes your mind, then you must not believed the truth, the first time…..stopping to study all together, which is The Word of God, is not a good thing to do……Let God be your teacher….Test all things

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Peace and Love Irene

[shimmer]

Quote (Baker @ Nov. 24 2010,12:47)

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 18 2010,18:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 18 2010,14:35) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 16 2010,17:38) Hi Mike. Yeah I understand so far. They were expecting Messiah to be a man only, not one from Heaven. Not a son of God from Heaven. Hi Shimmer and JA, Matthew 16:15-18 NIV 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. Okay, so we know the Jews were not expecting the Messiah to be the literal Son of God sent from heaven.  And here we see how big of a deal it is when God reveals this information to Peter.  Jesus says he will build his entire church around this revelation from God to Peter. The other Apostles EVER SO SLOWLY started to believe that Jesus was the literal Son of God who came down from heaven.  And over time, many of the disciples also understood.  But this was just a very small handful of people who had this understanding.  The vast majority of the population still had no clue that he was the Messiah, let alone the literal Son of God who came down from heaven.  This clueless “vast majority” is the group of people that Paul preached to.  And what were Paul's two main teachings that he tried to get across to this “vast majority”? Acts 9 NIV Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. 20 At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God. 22 Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Messiah. Paul used the OT scriptures to reason with people and to prove that this Jesus that they had crucified was in fact the promised Messiah.  Guess what else he used OT scriptures to prove?  That's right – that “Jesus is the Son of God” – just like verse 20 above says. So now you have the background Shimmer.  Now maybe you can read Acts 13 in a broader light.  I urge you to re-read Acts 13:16-48.  I will highlight some of it for you now. Verse 22 speaks of King David. 23 says that Jesus is the Savior of Israel from the line of David that God had promised.  You see Shimmer?  God had never promised to the ancestors that someday He would figuratively “beget” someone as His “Son”.  He promised a Messiah – a Savior of Israel.  This is “the promise to the ancestors” that God had fulfilled that Paul speaks of in verses 32 and 33. In verse 27, Paul refers to scripture that foretold years ago about the death of Jesus, and says those who killed him actually fulfilled those old prophecies. Throughout the rest of the speech, Paul uses scripture after scripture to prove that Jesus IS the one who was written about all those years ago by all those different people.   Paul was on a mission to prove two things Shimmer.  One, that Jesus IS the promised Messiah, and two, that Jesus is the real live Son of the living God. So while the wording is a little awkward in verse 33, Paul doesn't refer to the Psalm 2:7 to say “THIS” was the day that God begot Jesus, but only to scripturally prove that Jesus WAS that begotten Son of God mentioned all those years ago. Paul used many OT scriptures to prove that Jesus was the Messiah, for there are many.  But he used Psalm 2:7 over and over to prove that this Messiah was also the literal Son of the living God, for there aren't that many other scriptures he could have used to prove this.  In fact, he only uses one other one in all his letters and speeches. Verse 32 says that God had fulfilled a promise to the ancestors by raising Jesus.  You have to ask yourself honestly, “What promise did Jesus fulfill?”  There was never an “appointed” begotten Son promised by God, but there was a Messiah promised.   Now, if you add this knowledge to John 3:16, in which Jesus says he already IS the only begotten Son that God SENT INTO the world, bells should be ringing.  And if you add that to John saying that God sent His only begotten Son into the world as a sacrifice, red flags should be waving.  Jesus wasn't “sacrificed” for us AFTER he was raised from the dead.  It would make no sense for John to say God sacrificed His only begotten Son if he wasn't God's only begotten Son BEFORE he was sacrificed. Thanks for your patience guys.  Take it for what it's worth to you. peace and love, mike Thankyou Mike. Mike, I have no idea what any of this has to do with our faith, really. When was Jesus 'begotten' well…….why ? Jesus is the only begotten Son……I give up thinking about it now…..He just is the only begotten son of God…..thats all we need to know. Mike, maybe its me ? Years ago I went through this, searching, in all the wrong places as im sure you know. True spirituality with God is to listen and learn with God. Leaning on God …..not our own understanding…. To be spiritually in tune. Have you felt this ? You would have right  ? The more you think about something, the more confusing it becomes.   Dont you find that ? shimmer!  If what you are saying is true, then you are easily taken back, from what you first thought was the truth, and then when someone else again, changes your mind, then you must not believed the truth, the first time…..stopping to study all together, which is The Word of God, is not  a good thing to do……Let God be your teacher….Test all things 1Th 5:21   Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.   Peace and Love Irene

Thankyou for that advice Irene. That's true. I just found that years ago when I did study the Bible, all was well untill I started reading everything else. Should I make a list of some of the things I read (if I can remember)…ok…

Jehovah's Witnesses books
Jehovah's Witnesses magazines,
Morman Bible
Morman books
Christian Science books
United Church of God books
United Church of God magazines
Living Church of God books and magazines
Herbert Armstrong's books.
Ronald Weinland's books.
Bahaii Book
Muslim book
Gnostics book
Internet printables…loads and loads and loads of things I read.
Seventh day adventist books

Etc etc…now you see why I got so confused ?

I think what I need to do is go back to just reading the scripture.

[terraricca]

shimmer

I think what I need to do is go back to just reading the scripture

this decision would be the best ever ,you can not go wrong there,just read it slow and understand it ,read like it is and exam

Pierre

[shimmer]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 25 2010,13:04)

shimmer I think what I need to do is go back to just reading the scripture this decision would be the best ever ,you can not go wrong there,just read it slow and understand it ,read like it is and exam Pierre

Thanks Terrarica, good advice, I think looking at what I have done, especially all of the printing and reading I have done off the internet, probably thousands of pages…..and all of the books and magazines …too much reading, I burnt my mind out reading…. no wonder I was so confused, the truth I had been shown years ago I need to return to..I do need to reread scripture carefully as you said, as if an exam…I will.

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 25 2010,20:59)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 25 2010,13:04) shimmer I think what I need to do is go back to just reading the scripture this decision would be the best ever ,you can not go wrong there,just read it slow and understand it ,read like it is and exam Pierre Thanks Terrarica, good advice, I think looking at what I have done, especially all of the printing and reading I have done off the internet, probably thousands of pages…..and all of the books and magazines …too much reading, I burnt my mind out reading…. no wonder I was so confused, the truth I had been shown years ago I need to return to..I do need to reread scripture carefully as you said, as if an exam…I will.

shimmer

it is not the amount of what you know that s important,it is the truth what is important ,wen you find a truth look at it as a brick ,and wen you have found one more that s another brick and so on and soon you find yourself with enough bricks to start to build (your connection to God and Christ)

Christian love

Pierre

[shimmer]

Terrarica, thanks. I will.

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 26 2010,11:58)

Terrarica, thanks. I will.

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 16 2010,19:44)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 06 2010,12:43) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 03 2010,09:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 23 2010,06:36) t8 All things came into being through Him, and “APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING“. John 1:3 WJ Hi WJ, Why do you assume this verse appertains to Jesus? Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Hi SF, The Word took up residence in Jesus at his baptism, that's what John 1:14 refers to. Does that trouble you? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Bump fro SF

[NickHassan]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2010,14:18)

WJ…………None of you options are right, Jesus was begotten when the Holy Spiirt came (INTO) Him (AFTER) He was Baptized at the Jordan River by John the Baptist. The same happens to us we are begotten when we recieve Holy Spirit or Seed of GOD (into) Us also. But like Him we are not (born) into the Kingdom of GOD until we are resurected. But just begotten only, we have holy seed (IN) us at that time. That is why the voice Said (THIS DAY) I have begotten YOU , that was after He recieved Holy Spirit from on High after his baptism.  IMO peace and love………………..gene

Yes Gene,
At the Jordan.
1Jn 5.18

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,02:59)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2010,14:18) WJ…………None of you options are right, Jesus was begotten when the Holy Spiirt came (INTO) Him (AFTER) He was Baptized at the Jordan River by John the Baptist. The same happens to us we are begotten when we recieve Holy Spirit or Seed of GOD (into) Us also. But like Him we are not (born) into the Kingdom of GOD until we are resurected. But just begotten only, we have holy seed (IN) us at that time. That is why the voice Said (THIS DAY) I have begotten YOU , that was after He recieved Holy Spirit from on High after his baptism.  IMO peace and love………………..gene Yes Gene, At the Jordan. 1Jn 5.18

N

still teaching deceit ,

[mikeboll64]

Surely Jesus must have been begotten before the ages that were created through him. (Heb 1:2)

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The Spirit of Christ was before the ages.
In the beginning the Word was with God.

[mikeboll64]

Hmmmm…………………

Heb 1:2 says God created the universe through “His Son”. I don't read that He created the universe through “the Spirit of Christ” in that verse, Nick.

And God couldn't have created the universe through “His Son” if “His Son” didn't exist until 33 AD.

Test all things, Nick.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Sonship is by partaking of the Spirit.
So the work was done by the Spirit – the Spirit of Christ

[mikeboll64]

So is it the Spirit that is God's son? Or those through whom the Spirit works?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
No.
But sonship is by sharing the Spirit.
The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God-but first they must receive it

[Author]

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