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Hi Is 1.18,
Is the life that Jesus has then different from the Father's?
So how come you claim they are the one God?This is the life in him.
Jn7
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 21 2009,13:00) That's right WJ. And if John's intention was to convey that Yeshua was somehow given life by the Father than this is in direct contradiction to what he wrote in the first four verses of the prologue of his gospel (Ch 1, vss 1-4). James White's exposition of this passage is very good, and brings out this point much clearer than I could, here's the link: Go to http://www.biblecentre.net/
Click “Theology” (on the left of the page)
Scroll down to and click “The Forgotten Trinity”
Click and read the “A Masterpiece: The Prologue of John” sectionBlessings
Hi Isa 1:18Good stuff!
James Whites exposition shows exactly why the majority of the major translations of our day still translate John 1:1c as “the Word was God, or God was the Word, and not “the word was divine” or “the word was the begotten god”, “or the word was a god”.
The Greek construction did not allow any honest Hebrew or Greek Scholar to translate it any other way and stay true to the text, even though they had certain liberties to do so when the text demanded it.
Sad so many think they know more than the experts because they say they have the Spirit.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,
Of course the Son was mortal dying on calvary when he gave up his spirit so is this the eternal life you hope to inherit? Immortal God is Spirit, living Spirit and of that Spirit the waters of life were given to His son to give to us.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2009,13:53) Hi WJ,
So your experts do not need the Spirit?
Who are these experts who know the mind of God?
NHNotice I said “because they say they have the spirit” meaning you and anyone else who denies the scriptures and place their doctrine above the scriptures which are translated by the experts who also have the Spirit.
WJ
Hi WJ,
Tell me about these experts and what you know about the mainfestation as fruit of the Spirit of God in them.Theological universities do not grant such blessings but rather muddy the thoughts.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2009,17:01) Hi WJ,
Tell me about these experts and what you know about the mainfestation as fruit of the Spirit of God in them.Theological universities do not grant such blessings but rather muddy the thoughts.
NHYes I realize that you think that you know more than those who dedicated their entire lives to bring us the very translations that you say you rely on!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2009,17:01) Hi WJ,
Tell me about these experts and what you know about the mainfestation as fruit of the Spirit of God in them.Theological universities do not grant such blessings but rather muddy the thoughts.
NHBTW, what do I know about the fruit of the Spirit in you?
It seems all you do here is critisize. You do not take time to share the truth, or give us a well though out post. It seems you just call people names and condemn everyone that disagrees with you!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 21 2009,17:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2009,17:01) Hi WJ,
Tell me about these experts and what you know about the mainfestation as fruit of the Spirit of God in them.Theological universities do not grant such blessings but rather muddy the thoughts.
NHYes I realize that you think that you know more than those who dedicated their entire lives to bring us the very translations that you say you rely on!
WJ
Hi WJ,
Is cleverness and education sufficient to claim one has the Spirit?I thought scripture said fruit was the standard?
Kids can join so theological education is unnecessary.
Hi WJ.
We are here to discuss scripture but folks keep bringing along their favourite false theologies.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2009,17:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 21 2009,17:17) nick wrote:Hi WJ,
Tell me about these experts and what you know about the mainfestation as fruit of the Spirit of God in them.Theological universities do not grant such blessings but rather muddy the thoughts.
NHYes I realize that you think that you know more than those who dedicated their entire lives to bring us the very translations that you say you rely on!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2009,17:49) Hi WJ,
Is cleverness and education sufficient to claim one has the Spirit?
Did I say this? But since you mention it, was Jesus clever? Did Jesus have an education and know the scriptures better than any?How about Paul?
Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Phil 3:4, 5
Do you think that his education was in the providence of God seeing that he wrote 2 thirds of the NT?
Some how it seems to me you are the only one that is allowed to be educated around here NH, for when any one speaks of such then it is all folly to you.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2009,17:49) I thought scripture said fruit was the standard?
But you don't trust the scriptures because you do not trust the experts that brought them to you.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2009,17:49)
Kids can join so theological education is unnecessary.
NH
I see, so then we are not to grow in his grace and in his knowledge, having our loins girt about with truth.To you theological education is unnecessary because you have none is that right?
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2009,18:55) So WJ,
You are not offering clever theologians now but suggest we go back to scripture?
Good call.
NHAnd again, where did those translated english scriptures come from?
Have you read the Greek, or Aramaic or Hebrew scriptures lately?
WJ
Hi WJ,
No scripture says translators are specially blessed.
Would you say theologians are always inspired?More like candidates for the millstone by the fruit of death they offer others.
Kerwin……….> Amen to that, our present text has been greatly influenced by Trinitarian theologies, over centerys of transliterations and I believe without GOD Spirit guiding our minds, a person can not understand it. One just need to ask why do we have so many translations, Lexicons, different organizations and writings if it was properly translated in the first place. But thanks be to GOD He has given us His Spirit to understand scriptures. Not that we Know all yet but He has given us an understanding. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Quote (kerwin @ April 21 2009,23:03) Why do we use Lexicons if we believe the translators were 100% inspired by God?
KerwinDid I say the Translators were inspired?
Even the lexicons have been transliterated! Can you read Hebrew or Greek?
My point is unless you know Hebrew or Greek and understand how to translate the scriptures then what gives you or anybody else the authority to appose what they commentate as to why they translated a particular verse the way they did?
Yet it seems so many here do exactly that by claiming out of one side of their mouth that the translators are just being clever and that having an education is useless like NH has stated, then out of the other side of their mouth they claim they trust the scriptures?
That is laughable!
WJ
Quote (Gene @ April 22 2009,03:14) Kerwin……….> Amen to that, our present text has been greatly influenced by Trinitarian theologies, over centerys of transliterations and I believe without GOD Spirit guiding our minds, a person can not understand it. One just need to ask why do we have so many translations, Lexicons, different organizations and writings if it was properly translated in the first place. But thanks be to GOD He has given us His Spirit to understand scriptures. Not that we Know all yet but He has given us an understanding. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Hi GBWith the exception of the Johananine Comma, prove what you state is true.
WJ
Hi t8
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 18 2009,07:44) The Son is the radiance of God's glory and “the exact representation of his being”, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1:3 And…
“Who, being in very nature God”, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, Phil 2:6
I am going with the scriptures. For I see no difference in the ontology of the Father and Jesus.
That coupled with the Monotheistic belief of the Hebrews that there is no “Other Theos” but one and all other “theos” is so-called “theos” and not theos at all. 1 Cor 8:4, 5
Blessings WJ
Quote (t8 @ April 19 2009,19:08)
WJ, this is your own understanding. You are doing the addition yourself. Nowhere in scripture is your conclusion espoused.
My conclusion was this…Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 18 2009,07:44) That coupled with the Monotheistic belief of the Hebrews that there is no “Other Theos” but one and all other “theos” is so-called “theos” and not theos at all. 1 Cor 8:4, 5 … We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 1 Cor 8:4, 5
Now please explain to me why you believe there are other valid “Theos, or gods?Quote (t8 @ April 19 2009,19:08)
Yes in nature he is theos.
Why don’t you say God? Is it uncomfortable for you to say “In nature Jesus is God”? Now why don’t you explain to us how if he is “in nature God, then how is it that he is not God? Of course I know you will say that when Jesus is called “theos” the inspired writers were meaning “God” in a qualitative sense. Can you please tell us how Jesus is less than the Father in a qualitative sense? Didn’t think so!Again if “Jesus in nature is God” then how is he not God or less than God in nature?
“The Father is in very nature God!” But your logic says “the Father is not God”.
Quote (t8 @ April 19 2009,19:08)
That just proves that he came from God because a being who originates from God is hardly going to be any other than a representation, image, son of God.
What proves he came from God? What are you talking about, before he came in the flesh or after. If it is before he came in the flesh then do you have a scripture that proves that Yeshua came into existence or from the Father? Then show me where those words apply to Jesus before he came in the flesh. Do you have scriptures for this?Quote (t8 @ April 19 2009,19:08)
The clue is found in the words, image, representation, and glory of God. In fact a bigger clue is the word OF.
Is this why you do not believe the “Spirit of God” is God? Scripturally your reasoning is flawed for the Bible says “God is a Spirit” (John 4:24), and there is only “One Spirit” (1 Cor 12:13) and “the Lord is that Spirit” (2 Cor 3:17) And agian do those words apply to Jesus before he came in the flesh?Quote (t8 @ April 19 2009,19:08)
Either this is something you cannot grasp or is something that you ignore in order to keep hold of your tradition.It does take a better man to face all things that are written and not jus the ones that agree with your theology.
OK let me see if I understand your patronizing, and condescending attitude.Unless you believe that you are the better man and face all things written and not just those that agree with your theology you would not have made the statement.
HMM! Seems like arogance to me but I could be wrong! Maybe you really don't know?
Quote (t8 @ April 19 2009,19:08) Even we are born of God and created in his image. But Jesus is the prototype. None of us can claim that and so it is that we are going to be like him. Of course we will not be God either.
OK so how are we going to be like him?Will we be dwelling in every believer and filling all things?
No only God can do that!
Will the Holy Spirit proceed from us so that any man can come to us and drink?
No only God can do that!
Will we sit in the throne and be worshipped and given all honor and power and glory and praise by every creature in heaven and earth?
No only God can do that?
Interesting, Jesus is doing that!
So in other words t8, the likeness that we will have of God has nothing to do with his deity. It is only your own tradition that says that the oneness of Jesus who is the “Exact representation of his being”, the “Image of the invisible God”, is the same as our oneness with him.
WJ
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