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To my non-trinitarian friends here,
Proverbs 16:4 says this:
Quote YHWH has made all things for Himself Colossians 1:17 says:
Quote All things were created by Him and for Him Please reconcile these statements with your non-trinitarian views. The verse in Proverbs says that all things were created for YHWH. But the verse in Colossians says that all things were created for Christ.
Creation exists for who____? Fill in the blank!
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 14 2009,10:56) To my non-trinitarian friends here, Proverbs 16:4 says this:
Quote YHWH has made all things for Himself Colossians 1:17 says:
Quote All things were created by Him and for Him Please reconcile these statements with your non-trinitarian views. The verse in Proverbs says that all things were created for YHWH. But the verse in Colossians says that all things were created for Christ.
Creation exists for who____? Fill in the blank!
thinker
Creation exists for God and his children.Quote
Jhn 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.Love in Christ,
MartyMarty said;
Quote Creation exists for God and his children. Quote
Jhn 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
Marty,
The “things” in John 16:15 has to do with truth. And the “you” that receives that truth are the disciples to whom Jesus was speaking.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 14 2009,11:40) Marty said; Quote Creation exists for God and his children. Quote
Jhn 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
Marty,
The “things” in John 16:15 has to do with truth. And the “you” that receives that truth are the disciples to whom Jesus was speaking.thinker
Hi thethinker:Well, the “truth” is that creation exists for God and His children, and that should answer your question.
I am also his disciple.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (thethinker @ Mar. 13 2009,15:56) Quote Colossians 1:17 says: All things were created by Him and for Him
Please, what version are you citing?
Col 1:17 KJV And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:17 ESV And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:17 YLT and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
Col 1:17 NIV He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:17 NASB He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Col 1:17 AMP And He Himself existed before all things, and in Him all things consist (cohere, are held together
Col 1:17 DARBYAnd *he* is before all, and all things subsist together by him.
Col 1:17 WYCLIFFE and he is before all, and all things be in him.
Quote Creation exists for who____? Fill in the blank The answer you seek is in Col. 1:19
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself , not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Seeking
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 14 2009,11:46) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 14 2009,11:40) Marty said; Quote Creation exists for God and his children. Quote
Jhn 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
Marty,
The “things” in John 16:15 has to do with truth. And the “you” that receives that truth are the disciples to whom Jesus was speaking.thinker
Hi thethinker:Well, the “truth” is that creation exists for God and His children, and that should answer your question.
I am also his disciple.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
Creation exists FOR YHWH sccording to Proverbs 16:4. And it was made BY and FOR Christ in Colossians 1:17. The “things” in John 16:15 had nothing to do with truth about creation. It had to do with “things TO COME”.Quote He will show you things TO COME The “you” refers to the original disciples Christ had chosen. It has nothing to do with you. The Holy Spirit did not reveal the things to come to you.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 14 2009,10:56) To my non-trinitarian friends here, Proverbs 16:4 says this:
Quote YHWH has made all things for Himself Colossians 1:17 says:
Quote All things were created by Him and for Him Please reconcile these statements with your non-trinitarian views. The verse in Proverbs says that all things were created for YHWH. But the verse in Colossians says that all things were created for Christ.
Creation exists for who____? Fill in the blank!
thinker
Greetings Thinker…..The scriptures are the inspired word of God,given to us for the purpose of direction and chastening with a particular emphasis on Law…The amazing thing is that man has the ability to bend and twist so as to effect the outcome…..Scripture is written in chapter and verse for the intention of keeping the message in context….God created the heavens and the earth as part of his perfect plan for our salvation…YAWH and the word have been since the beginning and the spirit is the essence of Gods/YAWHs'power….God…simply by his word creates ( Let there be light )and there was light and so on through the process of creation….To sum it up….In the begining was God ( 1 ) and by his word in inconjunction with the power of his being( spirit )he created all things….Do the math…it adds up to one ( 1)…..and he is God,the word is his means to create and his spirit is the essence of his power….theodorj……………….You have it right, Simply put the LORD , Spoke everything into existences , by the POWERS (GOD) of HIS WORD>
The ONE LORD is in full control of all seven of these Powers. He is the LORD GOD, (HE EXISTS WITH POWERS). He spoke (word) and everything came into existence Himself and Himself alone, as He said BY MYSELF< I created the heavens and the earth, no one was there at that time but Himself and Himself alone. As He said. He also gave some of His intellects to men, and angles, and these intellects is what enlightens every man that comes into the world. No forcing of the text is need to understand this. Just as it was written by John is what John meant, and nothing more.
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………..gene
theodorej wrote:
Quote ….Do the math…it adds up to one ( 1)…..and he is God,the word is his means to create and his spirit is the essence of his power…. tj,
Please note Genesis 1:27,Quote So God created man in His own image; in the image of God he created him; male and female He created them. Man is a plural unity. Man is called both “him” (singular) and “them” (plural). So God is also called “Him” and “Us”.
The word “one” may be a single individual or a group,
Quote 3: Designating a person, thing or group as contrasted with another or others (Funk and Wagnall's Dictionary) Elohim, or “Gods” is a single group as contrasted with others. Man is also a single group as contrasted with others
Quote …in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 13 2009,18:56) To my non-trinitarian friends here, Proverbs 16:4 says this:
Quote YHWH has made all things for Himself Colossians 1:17 says:
Quote All things were created by Him and for Him Please reconcile these statements with your non-trinitarian views. The verse in Proverbs says that all things were created for YHWH. But the verse in Colossians says that all things were created for Christ.
Creation exists for who____? Fill in the blank!
thinker
Hi TT,
Good question. Obviously it was for both of them, Yahweh and the Son. Both are authority over heaven and earth. The Father ultimately has authority over the Son though. All things that the Son inherits will be our inheritance as well. Interesting that we are not joint heirs of the Father but of Christ. The Father has many mansions and Christ goes to prepare a place for us. I'm not sure what that is speaking of but maybe somewhere outside of our reality and this creation. I don't know if the Father made all those “mansions” through the Son or not. I don't know if they are part of Christ's inheritance as well as the believer's. Just thought I'd throw that out there.Any thoughts anyone?
LUQuote (thethinker @ Mar. 16 2009,06:41) theodorej wrote: Quote ….Do the math…it adds up to one ( 1)…..and he is God,the word is his means to create and his spirit is the essence of his power…. tj,
Please note Genesis 1:27,Quote So God created man in His own image; in the image of God he created him; male and female He created them. Man is a plural unity. Man is called both “him” (singular) and “them” (plural). So God is also called “Him” and “Us”.
The word “one” may be a single individual or a group,
Quote 3: Designating a person, thing or group as contrasted with another or others (Funk and Wagnall's Dictionary) Elohim, or “Gods” is a single group as contrasted with others. Man is also a single group as contrasted with others
Quote …in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them thinker
Thinker……Not withstanding the semantics of english grammar and the conclusions reached through deductive reasoning….The fact still remains that: God Is…Iam that Iam…and so on….The scriptural interpretation of “let us make man in our image”should not deminish the fact that in the beginning was God…(first person singular)Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 15 2009,11:41) Quote Man is a plural unity. Man is called both “him” (singular) and “them” (plural). So God is also called “Him” and “Us”. Another vastily inaccurate statement!
Gen 1:27 So God created man (adam – singular)
in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female ( the two sexes of adam) he created them.Man is NOT called singular and plural. Man is called SINGULAR.
The two sexes are referred to as “them” and, quite naturally,
are plural.False premise adds up to false conclusions.
Quote (SEEKING @ Mar. 16 2009,09:04) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 15 2009,11:41) Quote Man is a plural unity. Man is called both “him” (singular) and “them” (plural). So God is also called “Him” and “Us”. Another vastily inaccurate statement!
Gen 1:27 So God created man (adam – singular)
in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female ( the two sexes of adam) he created them.Man is NOT called singular and plural. Man is called SINGULAR.
The two sexes are referred to as “them” and, quite naturally,
are plural.False premise adds up to false conclusions.
Seeking,What you said above is exactly what I said. The two sexes are ONE man. So the plural Persons called “elohim” are ONE God.
thanks bro,
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 16 2009,09:36) Quote (SEEKING @ Mar. 16 2009,09:04) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 15 2009,11:41) Quote Man is a plural unity. Man is called both “him” (singular) and “them” (plural). So God is also called “Him” and “Us”. Another vastily inaccurate statement!
Gen 1:27 So God created man (adam – singular)
in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female ( the two sexes of adam) he created them.Man is NOT called singular and plural. Man is called SINGULAR.
The two sexes are referred to as “them” and, quite naturally,
are plural.False premise adds up to false conclusions.
Seeking,What you said above is exactly what I said. The two sexes are ONE man. So the plural Persons called “elohim” are ONE God.
thanks bro,
thinker
Negative! Man referred to as the 'Kind” is SINGULAR.
The sexes referred to in the “Kind”, male and female,
considered together are plural.ELOHIM is NOT plural –
Trinitarians and others claim that the Hebrew noun ‘Elohim’, rendered ‘God’ (Strong’s #430) in the first clause of Genesis 1:26, denotes more than one God Person (typically thought of or explained as “3 in 1” or “2 in 1” as in “one” family). In support they point to the second clause of verse 26, “Let us make man in our image”, being plural. It is true that in both English and Hebrew this second clause contains the plural subject ‘us’ and that this governs the plural verb ‘make’- But these are not governed by ‘Elohim’ (God) of the first clause. What is not realized, or otherwise mentioned in this issue is that in the first clause, “And God said”, ‘Elohim’ governs the singular Hebrew verb ‘’amer’ (Strong’s # 559), which is rendered ‘said’ in English. So linguistically there is no basis for claiming that ‘Elohim’ denotes, represents, or contains more than one God Person (entity).
It is also claimed that the Hebrew ‘Elohim’ is a uniplural or collective noun and that such nouns (e.g. the English noun ‘crowd’) often govern singular verbs. This claim contradicts leading Hebrew grammars, which claim that throughout the OT and when referring to the true God, the Hebrew noun 'Elohim' behaves as a singular noun, and governs only singular verbs, singular adjectives and singular pronouns. And only when 'elohim' refers to a number of pagan gods or humans (e.g. judges), that it behaves as a plural noun; and then governs plural verbs, plural adjectives and plural pronouns. So grammatically ‘Elohim’ is never a collective (uniplural) noun. That in reference to the true God, the noun ‘Elohim’ is singular, is well illustrated in Genesis 1:29, where this noun governs the singular pronoun ‘I’.Here follows a selection of Hebrew grammars from which these claims may be further verified: Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar edited and enlarged by E. Kautzsch, 2nd English edition by A.E. Cowley, paragraph 124 (g); Weingreen's Hebrew Grammar under 'God' in its English-Hebrew vocabulary; C.L Seow's A Grammar for Biblical Hebrew, 1992 printing, the vocabulary on page 19; James D Martin's Davidson's Introductory Grammar, 27th edition, 1995 reprint, page 52.
So grammatically, too, there is no justification for claiming that in Genesis 1:26 'God' (Elohim) denotes more than one God Person. Indeed throughout the OT ‘Elohim’ always denotes just one God Person.Note: The author of these articles listed below is an American now living in Israel. He is fluent in English, Modern Hebrew, and Biblical Hebrew. He is a Dead Sea Scrolls scholar and Semitic language expert
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 17 2009,04:36) Quote (SEEKING @ Mar. 16 2009,09:04) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 15 2009,11:41) Quote Man is a plural unity. Man is called both “him” (singular) and “them” (plural). So God is also called “Him” and “Us”. Another vastily inaccurate statement!
Gen 1:27 So God created man (adam – singular)
in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female ( the two sexes of adam) he created them.Man is NOT called singular and plural. Man is called SINGULAR.
The two sexes are referred to as “them” and, quite naturally,
are plural.False premise adds up to false conclusions.
Seeking,What you said above is exactly what I said. The two sexes are ONE man. So the plural Persons called “elohim” are ONE God.
thanks bro,
thinker
Hi thethinker:The husband and wife are one flesh or one body just as all Christians are members of the body of Christ, one body.
But no, they are two distinct individuals.
Love in Christ,
MartySeeking …….Yes Elohim (behaves as one or a singular) as our Bodies do, but they are made up of many parts, Our car behave as one car but are made up of many components, but we control it, The word Elohim is a representation of the SEVEN SPIRIT POWERS which makes a group of POWERS Which can operate as ONE Force controlled by ONE LORD. . And they are controlled by (ONE) LORD. Hear O Israel the LORD our GOD (powers) is ONE (LORD) not one GOD. The word GOD or power is an attribute of the ONLY ONE LORD> IMO
love to you and yours……………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Mar. 17 2009,16:22) Seeking …….Yes Elohim (behaves as one or a singular) as our Bodies do, but they are made up of many parts, Our car behave as one car but are made up of many components, but we control it, The word Elohim is a representation of the SEVEN SPIRIT POWERS which makes a group of POWERS Which can operate as ONE Force controlled by ONE LORD. . And they are controlled by (ONE) LORD. Hear O Israel the LORD our GOD (powers) is ONE (LORD) not one GOD. The word GOD or power is an attribute of the ONLY ONE LORD> IMO love to you and yours……………………………gene
Hi GBBut what do you do with this scripture that says Jesus eyes are the seven Spirits of God?
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, “having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Revelation 5:6
This is why Jesus said…
…and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:20
A mere man could never make that promise!
WJ
WJ……..That is a good question, because it does clarify a lot, Notice How Jesus is portrayed before the throne . As a (SLAIN) LAMB that is a Key to understanding how He exists in his present state, why is He portrayed as SLAIN, is it not because He died to (HIS) WILL, and therefore only the WILL of The GOD or POWERS operates (through) Him Now, after putting His (WILL) to death. Notice also the seven Horns (symbols of Powers) and along with them seven Eyes (intellects) These Powers, compose and operate through the seven Spirits (intellects) of the One GOD. The question Here is are these Jesus' own Powers and Intellects, NO, they are not, they are given Him from the FATHER<Jesus is (NOT) another GOD, He is a recipient of the Spirits of the ONE True GOD.
We also are recipients of GOD'S, SPIRIT of TRUTH, one of the SPIRITS of GOD. We recieve GOD'S Spirit through being anointed with them, even as Jesus Did, remember Jesus is called the (CHRIST) or ANOINTED. That is why Jesus said the FATHER (IN) me HE doth the Works , You see it was GOD (IN) Christ reconciling the WORLD to HIMSELF, you see it is GOD who will be in (ALL) and work Through (ALL) and there by effecting HIS (ONE WILL) in all things , “thy kingdom come, thy (WILL) be done”. that the way i see it brother.
love and peace to you and yours………………………………………….gene
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