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Quote (eveh @ Aug. 29 2009,20:43) Jesus said he was the son of God. The apostles said he was the Son of God. God said Jesus was his Son. Even the Devil knew him as the Son of God. The Demons he cast out, knew him as the Son of God. And still, the church world decided this could not be true. So they invented their own religion. IT is not what Jesus or the apostles taught you. It is a faux Gospel and if you don't start reading your Bible with spiritual eyes and stop listening to man, you are going to miss the boat. Perhaps it is spiritual blindness, I don't know, but you cannot read the Bible, putting all the scriptures together and come away thinking that Jesus is God. It is not there. You are building on a false foundation. It doesn't matter what else you learn if you don't get this foundation truth, that Peter got. “Your are the Christ, the Son of the living God”……and what did Jesus tell him? My Father has shown you this. My Father.
Hi eveh,
No doubt eveh, Jesus is the Son of God. Now if He is truly the son of God, what does that make him? Before you answer that, answer these questions:If my pet is the son of a dog…what does that make my pet?
If the wild animal in my yard is a son of a White-tailed deer…what does that make the wild animal in my yard?
If my son in the other room is a son of a man…what does that make my son?Answer:
The son of a dog is another dog.
The son of a White-tailed deer is another White-tailed deer.
The son of a man is another man, not a dog or a deer yet all of the above are sons of something/someone.Now keep with me here, if all of the above is true, can you also see that the son of a god would be another god?
Now we know that angels were called sons of God and we are called sons of God but we also know that the angels were created and we were created and have not got the nature of God from our beginning but we will partake in the nature of God. I believe that Jesus is not only a son of God but the only one that came by being begotten and not created. He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of GOD and the ONLY BEGOTTEN God…He is not the Most High God but the Son of the Most High God.
So, if I call Him the only Begotten God it is because that is what God's offspring would be.
Just think about it eveh.
God bless,
LUQuote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 30 2009,00:36) Hi LU,
We have one God.Jesus is our Lord.
Hi Nick,
True but with this understanding, IMO:
We have one God a.k.a. the Most High God
Jesus is our Lord a.k.a. the Only Begotten GodQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 30 2009,17:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 30 2009,00:36) Hi LU,
We have one God.Jesus is our Lord.
Hi Nick,
True but with this understanding, IMO:
We have one God a.k.a. the Most High God
Jesus is our Lord a.k.a. the Only Begotten God
Scripture please, showing Jesus is a begotten God.It must say that and not what you think it means. I prefer two scriptues. If it is true, there should be two or more scriptures saying exactly that.
Quote (eveh @ Aug. 30 2009,02:14) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 30 2009,17:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 30 2009,00:36) Hi LU,
We have one God.Jesus is our Lord.
Hi Nick,
True but with this understanding, IMO:
We have one God a.k.a. the Most High God
Jesus is our Lord a.k.a. the Only Begotten God
Scripture please, showing Jesus is a begotten God.It must say that and not what you think it means. I prefer two scriptues. If it is true, there should be two or more scriptures saying exactly that.
Dear eveh,
I can show you a verse that says that word for word and I can show you several that shows you who His Father is and I can point to creation and tell you to look at creation and let it testify to you that a true son is ALWAYS another of the same kind. I have found that unless you are willing to receive the understanding there will always be those that say:
“but another manuscript uses this word” or
“it doesn't say that in ____ translation” or
“it can't mean that because God can't do that” or
“translators are biased” or
“He is an only begotten but not in the obvious sense” or a number of other things.So, I say to you, if you want to find it word for word, search the NASB for “begotten God” and ask God to show you truth and not man. Look with your spiritual eyes and listen to Him and surrender your previous understanding. Ask Him to show you so that YOU WILL KNOW that God revealed that to you and not man. Be patient and wait and be still before the living God who loves you and wants to give you good things.
God bless your search,
LUQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 30 2009,17:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 30 2009,00:36) Hi LU,
We have one God.Jesus is our Lord.
Hi Nick,
True but with this understanding, IMO:
We have one God a.k.a. the Most High God
Jesus is our Lord a.k.a. the Only Begotten God
Hi LU,
Jesus is the son of man.
He is born of a woman.
Mary really is his mother.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 30 2009,14:46) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 30 2009,17:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 30 2009,00:36) Hi LU,
We have one God.Jesus is our Lord.
Hi Nick,
True but with this understanding, IMO:
We have one God a.k.a. the Most High God
Jesus is our Lord a.k.a. the Only Begotten God
Hi LU,
Jesus is the son of man.
He is born of a woman.
Mary really is his mother.
Hi Nick,
True, as the “Son of Man” Mary really is His mother. Amazing supernatural conception and birth!! PTLLU
Hi LU,
So a man is God?
God is a man?Men are gods as Jesus said so perhaps that is what is meant that they act for God?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 30 2009,15:26) Hi LU,
So a man is God?
God is a man?Men are gods as Jesus said so perhaps that is what is meant that they act for God?
Hi Nick,
God has given some men in history to be “as” god to other men. They are in a completely different category than the Son of God who from the beginning was the begotten God who became a man to explain His Father to us as He dwelt among man and suffered and died so that He could redeem His brethren and return us back to His Father. His victory is ours and He has conquered the power of the evil one. Hallelujah! There is therefore no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus…Rejoice!
LU
What do you do with a scripture like this?
Numbers 23:19-20 (King James Version)
19God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
If Jesus is a man and he is God, doesn't that make him a man too?
When you try to force this doctrine on the scriptures, you end up with some pretty confuisng scriptures.
Isa. 53: 3 said that Jesus was a MAN OF SORROWS.
1Tim 2: 5 said Jesus is a man who mediates between God and man.
MARK SURE THOUGHT HE WAS THE SON OF GOD..NOT GOD
Mark 11. The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. (Word of God by Mark)
11. And a voice came out of the heavens, Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I am well pleased. (God)
3: 11. And the unclean spirits, whensoever they beheld him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God. (unclean spirits)
Mark 5: 7. and crying out with a loud voice, he saith, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, torment me not. (demons in man)
9: 7. And there came a cloud overshadowing them: and there came a voice out of the cloud, This is my beloved Son: hear ye him. (God)
14: 61. But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62. And Jesus said, I am: (Jesus himself)
15: 39. And when the centurion, who stood by over against him, saw that he so gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God. (centurion)
Luke 1: 32. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (word of God by Luke)
35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (angel to Mary)
22: 70. And they all said, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am. (Jesus)
John 1: 18. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (Word of God by John)
33. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize in water, he said unto me, Upon whomsoever thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, the same is he that baptizeth in the Holy Ghost.
34. And I have seen, and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.
(John the Baptist as told to him by God of sending the Spirit upon him)
(John saw and bore witness that this is the Son of God; did not say this is God) (Notice also that none of these people had any question of Jesus being God; they were questioning if he were the Son of God. They never at any time thought Jesus was God. It is just not in the Word.)
Thanks to my freidn Jo for some of these scriptures.Learn more here:
http://buildonthetruefoundation.aimoo.com/Jesus….93.html
Eveh…….Good Post, I also agree with what you have said. You have a very good understanding of GOD'S words.
Peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (eveh @ Aug. 30 2009,22:15) What do you do with a scripture like this? Numbers 23:19-20 (King James Version)
19God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
If Jesus is a man and he is God, doesn't that make him a man too?
When you try to force this doctrine on the scriptures, you end up with some pretty confuisng scriptures.
Isa. 53: 3 said that Jesus was a MAN OF SORROWS.
1Tim 2: 5 said Jesus is a man who mediates between God and man.
MARK SURE THOUGHT HE WAS THE SON OF GOD..NOT GOD
Mark 11. The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. (Word of God by Mark)
11. And a voice came out of the heavens, Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I am well pleased. (God)
3: 11. And the unclean spirits, whensoever they beheld him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God. (unclean spirits)
Mark 5: 7. and crying out with a loud voice, he saith, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, torment me not. (demons in man)
9: 7. And there came a cloud overshadowing them: and there came a voice out of the cloud, This is my beloved Son: hear ye him. (God)
14: 61. But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62. And Jesus said, I am: (Jesus himself)
15: 39. And when the centurion, who stood by over against him, saw that he so gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God. (centurion)
Luke 1: 32. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (word of God by Luke)
35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (angel to Mary)
22: 70. And they all said, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am. (Jesus)
John 1: 18. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (Word of God by John)
33. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize in water, he said unto me, Upon whomsoever thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, the same is he that baptizeth in the Holy Ghost.
34. And I have seen, and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.
(John the Baptist as told to him by God of sending the Spirit upon him)
(John saw and bore witness that this is the Son of God; did not say this is God) (Notice also that none of these people had any question of Jesus being God; they were questioning if he were the Son of God. They never at any time thought Jesus was God. It is just not in the Word.)
Thanks to my freidn Jo for some of these scriptures.Learn more here:
http://buildonthetruefoundation.aimoo.com/Jesus….93.html
Dear eveh,
Surely it is very important to God the Father to reveal Jesus as His Son and not as Himself.It is also important to know that you can trust Him, for He is not like a man that lies and needs to repent. I believe that is the message of Numbers 23:19-20
It is important for us to know that the Son is THE ACTUAL SON OF GOD and not just as an ordinary son of Abraham. He is unique …the Father was never a son, Jesus is and always was a son.
It is also important to know that the Son of God laid down His life in heaven to become a humble servant within a flesh and blood body. One who deserved glory and honor, subjected Himself to ridicule and abuse…for you eveh and me and all of us. He subjected Himself to become a man of sorrows. Don't miss the magnitude of this. I don't believe that the Father forced Him to lay down His life to face what He didn't deserve in order to redeem us.
So, yes, Jesus is the SON of God and I ask you again…what is a true son of something. Creation testifies that a true son is another of his kind. That Son became man. He wasn't always a man. He was heavenly and came from heaven to inhabit a body prepared for Him.
It is important to know that He is not the source but He was from the source. Yet, it is important to know that He is the same kind that His Father is, just like creation declares a true son to be…another of the same kind. What kind is the Father???
He had to come as a man and die in order to redeem us and He came willingly, not by force.
I'll bet that you can find verses where the Father refers to Him as God, or apostles refer to Him as God, or John or Thomas. You know how to look up verses. Find the ones that support that He is God to go along with your verses that support that He is the Son of God if you want to search this honestly. They are both in the Bible.
It is easy to understand how He can be both when you understand that the Father is the Most High God and the Son is the only begotten God. They are the same nature but one is totally dependent on the other and the Most High God is dependent on no one.
Blessings,
LUYes Nick, yet without the sin curse because that comes from the man, not from the woman. He was tempted in His flesh.
Hi LU,
No I mean skin and hair colour, height and general human nature?
Or was she just a surrogate mother for a heavenly being?Was God in him or was he God?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 31 2009,16:17) Hi LU,
No I mean skin and hair colour, height and general human nature?
Or was she just a surrogate mother for a heavenly being?Was God in him or was he God?
Nick
Hi eveh
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 30 2009,23:54) It is easy to understand how He can be both when you understand that the Father is the Most High God and the Son is the only begotten God. They are the same nature but one is totally dependent on the other and the Most High God is dependent on no one.
But, it’s not so easy to understand that you have 2 Gods and not one!And it’s not so easy to understand scriptures like these…
“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13
Did YHWH change his mind?
and…
Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and “ THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE”. 1 Cor 8:4
The Apostle Paul forgot to mention anywhere in the 2/3rds of the New Testament of which he penned under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that Jesus was a “Begotten God”, in fact that term is exclusive to the NASU in one verse.
To believe there is more than “One True God” of any sort or in any sense, is pure Polytheism!
Either Jesus is “True God” or he is not God at all!
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of “our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus“, Titus 2:13
There was Pauls opportunity to mention “Begotten God”, but it's not there!
Blessings WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 31 2009,15:54) Quote (eveh @ Aug. 30 2009,22:15) What do you do with a scripture like this? Numbers 23:19-20 (King James Version)
19God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
If Jesus is a man and he is God, doesn't that make him a man too?
When you try to force this doctrine on the scriptures, you end up with some pretty confuisng scriptures.
Isa. 53: 3 said that Jesus was a MAN OF SORROWS.
1Tim 2: 5 said Jesus is a man who mediates between God and man.
MARK SURE THOUGHT HE WAS THE SON OF GOD..NOT GOD
Mark 11. The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. (Word of God by Mark)
11. And a voice came out of the heavens, Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I am well pleased. (God)
3: 11. And the unclean spirits, whensoever they beheld him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God. (unclean spirits)
Mark 5: 7. and crying out with a loud voice, he saith, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, torment me not. (demons in man)
9: 7. And there came a cloud overshadowing them: and there came a voice out of the cloud, This is my beloved Son: hear ye him. (God)
14: 61. But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62. And Jesus said, I am: (Jesus himself)
15: 39. And when the centurion, who stood by over against him, saw that he so gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God. (centurion)
Luke 1: 32. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (word of God by Luke)
35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (angel to Mary)
22: 70. And they all said, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am. (Jesus)
John 1: 18. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (Word of God by John)
33. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize in water, he said unto me, Upon whomsoever thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, the same is he that baptizeth in the Holy Ghost.
34. And I have seen, and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.
(John the Baptist as told to him by God of sending the Spirit upon him)
(John saw and bore witness that this is the Son of God; did not say this is God) (Notice also that none of these people had any question of Jesus being God; they were questioning if he were the Son of God. They never at any time thought Jesus was God. It is just not in the Word.)
Thanks to my freidn Jo for some of these scriptures.Learn more here:
http://buildonthetruefoundation.aimoo.com/Jesus….93.html
Dear eveh,
Surely it is very important to God the Father to reveal Jesus as His Son and not as Himself.It is also important to know that you can trust Him, for He is not like a man that lies and needs to repent. I believe that is the message of Numbers 23:19-20
It is important for us to know that the Son is THE ACTUAL SON OF GOD and not just as an ordinary son of Abraham. He is unique …the Father was never a son, Jesus is and always was a son.
It is also important to know that the Son of God laid down His life in heaven to become a humble servant within a flesh and blood body. One who deserved glory and honor, subjected Himself to ridicule and abuse…for you eveh and me and all of us. He subjected Himself to become a man of sorrows. Don't miss the magnitude of this. I don't believe that the Father forced Him to lay down His life to face what He didn't deserve in order to redeem us.
So, yes, Jesus is the SON of God and I ask you again…what is a true son of something. Creation testifies that a true son is another of his kind. That Son became man. He wasn't always a man. He was heavenly and came from heaven to inhabit a body prepared for Him.
It is important to know that He is not the source but He was from the source. Yet, it is important to know that He is the same kind that His Father is, just like creation declares a true son to be…another of the same kind. What kind is the Father???
He had to come as a man and die in order to redeem us and He came willingly, not by force.
I'll bet that you can find verses where the Father refers to Him as God, or apostles refer to Him as God, or John or Thomas. You know how to look up verses. Find the ones that support that He is God to go along with your verses that support that He is the Son of God if you want to search this honestly. They are both in the Bible.
It is easy to understand how He can be both when you understand that the Father is the Most High God and the Son is the only begotten God. They are the same nature but one is totally dependent on the other and the Most High God is dependent on no one.
Blessings,
LU
Hello eveh and Welcome! Kathi's post is right in a sense that Jesus is the Son of God. She does not give any Scriptures to show though that Jesus preexisted His Birth before He became a Human Being.
In Co. 1:15″ He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn overall creation.”
verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are in Heaven and that are in Earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or power. All things were created through him and for Him.Rev. 3:14 ….”These says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God.”
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
verse 2 He was in the beginning with God.
verse 14 And the Word became flesh abd dwelt among us….After Jesus became a Man and was crucified and resurrected He says this in
John 17:5 ” And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory I had with You before the World was.”
Jesus was not only the first creation of God, but He also
was the firstborn of the death.Col, !: 18 And He is the Head of the Body, the Church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the death, that in all things He may have preeminence. Meaning that He was first in all. The firstborn over all creation and the firstborn of the death.
Jesus is a literal Son of God by creation.
Proverbs 6:22-30 to me it is were David explained in detail, how He became God's Son. Most will say that it is Wisdom speaking. However I Don't belief that, because God already had all wisdom and was always Deity and always existed.
Proverbs 8:22 ' The LORD possessed Me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. When you see LORD in cpital letters it is always the Father.
verse 23 ” I have been established from everlasting, before there ever was an earth.
verse 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth. W
hen there were no fountains abounding with water.
verse 25 Before the Mountains were settled, Before the Hills, I was brought forth;
verse 26 While as yet He had not made the earth or the fields.
Or the primval dust of the world.
verse 27 When He prepared the heavens I was there. When He drew a circle on the face of the deep.
verse 28 When He established the clouds above. When He strenghtend the fountains of the deep.
verse 29 When He assigned the deep its limits,
So that the waters would not transgress His command. When He marked out the fountains of the earth.
Then I was beside Him.I also want to say this, because some think, like I said, will say that it was wisdom.. Wisdom and patience, Love etc. are all the essence of God the Father. The last verse says
” Then I was beside Him as a master craftsman and I was daily His Delight. Can that be Wisdom, that a person has and possess? I don't think so.
You gave wonderful Scriptures that explains Jesus as a Man. He had Gods Holy Spirit in Him without Measure. Not only that, since He was with the Father as a Spirit being, He knew what was at stake if He would sin. God had to send His only begotten Son into the world, no other Human could do what He did. He was in all things like us, except the Holy Spirit of the Father, He had without measure. We have some of Gods Spirit, but not like Jesus did.
All Human Being have fallen short of the glory of God, and have sinned. John tells us if we believe that we are not sinners, the truth is not in us.
Peace and Love Irene
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