Preexistence

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi…..that is true, example,  God’s spirit was on Peter  when Jesus ask him ” who do you say I am” Peter responded,” you are the christ (the anointed) the son of the living God”, Jesus responded back, “blessed are you Simon Barjoni, for flesh and blood did not reveal that unto you, but my father who is in heaven has revealed it unto you”. This shows that the spirit of God does by revelation into our mind bring  us to Jesus the christ, even though at that time Peter did not have the holy spirit “in” him, but God who is spirit was drawing him to Jesus, even before he actually recieved the spirit of truth “permanently” in him, as at the day of Pentecost, when the spirit was permanently given him and others.  Being drawn by the spirit is not the same as having the spirit permanently in you. I know you already know this  Jodi.

TC….God does draw those he choses to Jesus by his spirit, but in order for us to recieve his spirit into us, we must be baptized and then recieve the spirit “in” us, Just as Jesus had to be baptized to recieve the spirit permanently into him.

When a person has recieved the spirit of God into him at that time he becomes a son of God, then this statement by the apostle Paul become true, “KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOUR BODY “IS” THE TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD,  Just like when Jesus was baptized a voice came from heaven saying “this is my son hear you him”, and again, God said through the mouth of Jesus “DESTORY THIS “TEMPLE” AND IN THREE DAYS I SHALL RAISE “IT” UP”.

That did not happen till after he was baptized and recieved the holy spirit “INTO”  him. That is when the word came to be in flesh, the FATHER WHO IS THE WORD CAME TO BE “IN” JESUS’ BODY,CALLING IT, A TEMPLE.   that did not happen till he was baptized and recieved the spirit into himself. The same must happen to  us also in order to be a son of God .

 

Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,

Our God is close to every man by His Spirit as Paul explained to the Athenians in Acts17..27

Jesus had no advantages but found the grace of God, available to all men in the Word

At the Jordan the Holy Spirit entered INTO him, and thence he walked in It.

He was baptised in the Spirit and now he baptised us in that Spirit.

Now God can be at work in us to will and to do. Phil 2.13

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

The brothers of Jesus were washed clean by the Word spoken to them.Jn 15.3

Cornelius and his friends were adjudged to be clean by God and given the Spirit, yet later water baptised too in Acts 10.

[Truthcomber]

HI Gene,

You: Jodi…..that is true, example, God’s spirit was on Peter when Jesus ask him ” who do you say I am” Peter responded,” you are the christ (the anointed) the son of the living God”, Jesus responded back, “blessed are you Simon Barjoni, for flesh and blood did not reveal that unto you, but my father who is in heaven has revealed it unto you”. This shows that the spirit of God does by revelation into our mind bring us to Jesus the christ, even though at that time Peter did not have the holy spirit “in” him, but God who is spirit was drawing him to Jesus, …

Me: This is true.

Matt 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Matt 23:10 (Bible Hub) Neither be you called instructors since the instructor of you is one the Christ.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/23-10.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/23-10.htm

Me: Christ, as a man is our (men) teacher through the holy spirit.

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he (he is added), the Spirit of truth, is come, he (is added) will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he (our heavenly father) shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Me: All the “he, himself. In the above verse are added or personalized. Click on the link below and discover this. Chris is our personal teacher before and after he was resurrected from the dead. It is the father that gives Christ understanding to give us. There is no person called the holy spirit in between.
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/16-13.htm

All words in the parenthesis are mind.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Gene,

You: even before he (Peter) actually recieved the spirit of truth “permanently” in him, as at the day of Pentecost, when the spirit was permanently given him and others. Being drawn by the spirit is not the same as having the spirit permanently in you. I know you already know this Jodi.

Me:

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Me: The apostles received the holy spirit after Christ was resurrected from the dead and before he had ascended into heaven.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise.

Me: The prophets and saints of the OT had received the holy spirit but had not received the “promise” of the holy spirit. The holy spirit went back to God after they died (Eccl 12:7). Their human spirit perished, for there is only one spirit in the end (Eph 4:4), the holy spirit. The apostles had received the holy spirit in John 20:22, but they had not received the “promise” of the holy spirit.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet ____; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Me: The promise of the holy spirit was established when the human mind of Christ was fully integrated with it after he had ascended into heaven and was glorified.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Gene,

You: God does draw those he choses to Jesus by his spirit, but in order for us to recieve his spirit into us, we must be baptized and then recieve the spirit “in” us, Just as Jesus had to be baptized to recieve the spirit permanently into him.

Me: Yes, we must be baptized with the holy spirit to receive it, period. After Pentecost, those that are baptized with the holy spirit receive the holy spirit at the same time. We are baptized into Christ’s death and are resurrected with him.

You:  When a person has recieved the spirit of God into him at that time he becomes a son of God, then this statement by the apostle Paul become true, “KNOW YOU NOT THAT You: YOUR BODY “IS” THE TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD, Just like when Jesus was baptized a voice came from heaven saying “this is my son hear you him”, and again, God said through the mouth of Jesus “DESTORY THIS “TEMPLE” AND IN THREE DAYS I SHALL RAISE “IT” UP”.

Me This is nonsense. Christ was baptized with the baptism of John which he needed not to do (Matt 3:14-15). This is not the baptism of the holy spirit which occurred after Pentecost. Christ was not baptized into his own death before he died. What you have presented is garbage. The temple that was resurrected was not the glorified temple to be which Christ received after he had ascended into heaven.

You: That did not happen till after he was baptized and recieved the holy spirit “INTO” him. That is when the word came to be in flesh, the FATHER WHO IS THE WORD CAME TO BE “IN” JESUS’ BODY,CALLING IT, A TEMPLE. that did not happen till he was baptized and recieved the spirit into himself. The same must happen to us also in order to be a son of God .

Me: Christ was conceived with the holy spirit at conception, not at Jordan. The Father is not the Word. This is another foolish statement by you.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…14 And the Word was made (became one with) flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

The same greek Word is used for the CONCEPTION of John and of Jesus.

But you imagine the conception of Jesus was different?

Acts 23.16

And now why do you delay?

Arise, and be baptised, and wash away your sins , calling on his name.

 

But you think this was bad advice?

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

 

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Me: This does not mean that our present bodies are to be the temple of God. This verse does not say that our present bodies are the temple of God. The body that is reserved in heaven is the temple of God (2 Cor 5:1).

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-36.htm

1 Cor 15:36 (bible hub) fool you what you sow not that comes to life if not it dies.

Me: The seed of the flesh, our present bodies does not come to life because it will die or be nonexistent.

1 Cor 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other ____:

Me: The word “seed” at the end of 1 Cor 15:37 is an added word. I believe it should be “body” to correspond with “thou sowest not the body that shall be”.

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

Lk 7.29

But when all the people and the tax gathers heard this they acknowledged God’s justice,

having been baptised with the baptism of John.

But the pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptised by John.

 

The wisdom of God is justified by her children.

 

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is of the plan of God and the wise will not deny they need it.

 

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Nick,

You: The same greek Word is used for the CONCEPTION of John and of Jesus.
But you imagine the conception of Jesus was different?
Acts 23.16
And now why do you delay?
Arise, and be baptised, and wash away your sins , calling on his name.

But you think this was bad advice?

Me: The Greek word can be born or conception.  John was born with the spirit of God from his birth.  Christ was the only begotten son of God at his conception.  John was not called the son of God, because he was not baptized in the holy spirit yet.  You could not be baptized with the holy spirit until after Pentecost.

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:…14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

So having discovered an added word in scripture you would like to substitute another added word?

By whose authority

?

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

Indeed John was said by scripture to be filled with the Spirit in his mother’s womb.

And now you IMAGINE that Jesus was anointed from his conception?

Speculations are not helpful in reading the sacred words.

We are to cast down such speculations are we not?

2cor 10.5

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

Indeed it was a sign for John.

But it is also truth that the Spirit descended on the man Jesus and remained on him.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Nick,

You: The same greek Word is used for the CONCEPTION of John and of Jesus.
But you imagine the conception of Jesus was different?

Me: 

John 3:16 (Bible Hub) “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Me: click on the link below. Click on “mono” to the right of “only begotten”
Also click on “genos”
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/3-16.htm

Definition of Mono:

NASB Translation
alone (31), even (1), just (2), mere (1), merely (2), only (18), only one (1), only thing (1), private (1), themselves* (1).

Definition of genos:

NASB Translation
birth (2), countrymen (2), descendant (1), descent (1), family (2), kind (3), kinds (3), nation (1), native (1), race (3).

Me: Christ was the only one descendant of God directly. John the Baptist was not begotten by God directly but had a human father and mother.

Matt 1:20 (Bible Hub) But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, son of David, be not afraid to take Mary as thy wife, for the child that has been conceived in her is of the holy spirit.

Me: Click on the link below. Then click on 1080 to the right of “has been conceived”.

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/matthew/1-20.htm

NASB Translation
bear (1), bearing children (1), became the father of (4), became…father (1), begotten (4), bore (1), born (41), Child (1), conceived (1), father (37), Father (1), gave (1), gives birth (1), produce (1).

Me: What has been conceived has been begotten. The translation also considers born.

Click on the link below. Then click on 1080 to the right of “is born”

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/3-3.htm

NASB Translation
bear (1), bearing children (1), became the father of (4), became…father (1), begotten (4), bore (1), born (41), Child (1), conceived (1), father (37), Father (1), gave (1), gives birth (1), produce (1).

Me: Both John 3:1  and Matt 1:20 have 1080 as definitions for born, begotten  and conceived.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Nick:

Me: Click on the link below.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/1-15.htm

Then click on 1537 above “from”.

ek or ex: from, from out of
Original Word: ἐκ, ἐξ
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: ek or ex
Phonetic Spelling: (ek)
Definition: from, from out of
Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

Me: Christ was the only begotten of our heavenly Father. John received the holy spirit after he was born

[Ed J]

TruthComber: The Father is not the Word. This is another foolish statement by you.

Hi TruthComber, name-calling is not necessary

I have evidence to suggest that “The Word” is God’s HolySpirit:

1. The HolySpirit conceived Jesus – “The Word” maketh the Son

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but
“The Word” of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Heb 7:28)

And evidence to suggest “The Word” is NOT Jesus:

2. “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by “The Word” of God,
so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.” (Heb 11:3)

The last part implies since Jesus appeared in physicality he could not have made the Cosmos

____________
God bless
Ed J

[GeneBalthrop]

Edj…..You are right, Jesus is not the word, GOD the Father is the word, and he being spirit,  came to dwell “in” the man JESUS’ BODY,  and spoke “through” him. Just as he did “in” the prophets before him. As it say “GOD spoke to us in times past in different ways  through the prophets, has in these latter days spoken to us through a son.  Jesus said clearly the words he spoke to us were “not” his words, but the words of him who sent him. Glad you understand that Edj.

Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

[Proclaimer]

Gene, could it be that you are preaching against the Book of John?

John
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth

Look at the bolded parts above. You can see that the Word was with God and God created all through the Word that was with him. Further, God created all through the light and Jesus is that light. Then we see that this Word became flesh and we know that Jesus came in the flesh of which some deny and are in apostasy.

[Ed J]

10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him

Hi T8, (we been through this before)

1. It was through Jesus dying on the cross that God made the worlds through him

1. “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev 13:8)

2. Jesus did not take part in any creation process (as you are presuming)

2. “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,
so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.” (Heb 11:3)

Since Jesus APPEARED – Jesus could not have created the worlds…

Young’s Literal Translation
by faith we understand the ages to have been prepared by a saying of God,
in regard to the things seen not having come out of things appearing;

New Living Translation
By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command,
that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.

Berean Literal Bible
By faith we understand the universe to have been formed by the word of God,
so that the things being seen have not been made from the things being visible.

New Heart English Bible
By faith, we understand that the ages were prepared by the word of God,
so that what is seen has not been made out of things which are visible.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For by faith we understand that the worlds were fashioned by the word of God,
and these things that are seen came into being out of those things which are unseen.

GOD’S WORD® Translation
Faith convinces us that God created the world through his word.
This means what can be seen was made by something that could not be seen.

Darby Bible Translation
By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,
so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.

Weymouth New Testament
Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,
so that what is seen does not owe its existence to that which is visible.

Exempting Jesus from the creation process

[GeneBalthrop]

T8…….In the beginning was the word , and the word was with God and was God.   Is that not the same with you and me are we not our word. The same applies with God, He and His words are one and the same. He through the spirit came to be in the flesh man Jesus, just as he came wth us.

If you truly believed Jesus , you would believe what he said,  “The father is “in” me”  and again, ” the words I am telling you, ARE NOT MY WORDS, but the words of him that sent me”.

Why would Jesus say that if he were the word himself?  T8 the word (who is God who is spirit) came to be “IN” the man JESUS, when he was anointed at the Jordan river by John the Baptist. The the word who is God came to dwell in the TEMPLE OF JESUS ‘ BODY.

It was not Jesus who said “destory this temple and in three days I (GOD) shall raise it up”. That was God the Father speaking directly through the mouth of Jesus.   Just as scripture clearly says “GOD THE FATHER RAISE JESUS FROM THE GRAVE”.

T8,  AND we are told if the same spirit of him that raised Jesus from the dead dwell in us, he (God) shall also quicken our mortal “bodies” ,  GOD considers our bodies as temples he cane live in, Paul said, ” know you not that you ‘bodies’ are the temples  of the living God.”  The same applied to Jesus GOD THE FATHER WAS “IN” JESUS, but none of that ever made Jesus a God,  no more then it makes us God’s either.

T8…..you are caught halfway out of the trinitarian teachings , come all the way out brother.

 

Peace and love to you and yours ………gene

 

[Author]

Posts