Preexistence

[Truthcomber]

Hi Anthony,

You: I think this is very significant and important because it has a bearing on Christ as to His nature and His situation as “the Son of God” and “the only begotten Son of God”(John 3:18). Notice that the term “only-begotten” takes on new importance when you realize there are other Sons of God in the mix.

Me:

Christ is the only true image of the only true God. All other human sons of God are through Christ only. Nobody becomes a son of God directly trough God, only Christ. Before Christ died, was resurrected, and was glorified, no man could be called the son of God. The holy spirit went back to God at a saint’s death (Eccl 12:7). We are adopted as such after Pentecost as a saint, dead or alive. We die with Christ, are buried with him, (baptized of the holy spirit) and then are resurrected with into eternal life. Those alive and “begotten” of him start the journey. Those already dead that had been born of the spirit become sons of God.

The term “son of God” implies no ancestors, only God as the progenitor. A son of God is created directly under God. The first Adam, a son of God, had descendants, which are mankind through the flesh. We are called sons of man or sons of Adam (Deut 33:8) because we descend from Adam. Christ was the first and only true son of God descended (son of man) from the first Adam. He has descendants, his church first, and then the rest of mankind. As stated before, we are adopted sons of God through Christ. In fact, the word Adam means mankind in Hebrew. Click on the link below. Then click on 120 above the word Adam.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/2-19.htm

Definition
man, mankind
NASB Translation
any man (2), anyone (4), anyone’s (1), being* (1), common sort* (1), human (19), infantry (1), low degree* (1), low* (1), man (363), man’s (20), man* (1), mankind (9), men (104), men of low degree* (1), men’s (3), men* (4), mortal (1), one (3), people (1), person (5), person* (1), persons (3), population (1), someone (1).

Now click on the link below:

Look at the number above “the man”. It is “120”, the same for Adam.

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive…

The angels have no ancestors. They are of the image of God. They are sons of God. But they are never baptized with the holy spirit. So they could never be the sons of God like we become the sons God. Adam also was a son of God of the flesh because he had no ancestors. But he was not a true son of God of the spirit until he was baptized and resurrected from the dead with Christ thousands of years later. It is only through Christ’s shed blood that we can become sons of God through the spirit. God knew Adam would sin. So we can become true sons of God through Christ’s death and resurrection—there is no other way. The angels were never true flesh and blood, but spirits with bodies that could be revealed. They could never become the true sons of God through Christ. Christ could never die for them because they were spirit sons of God from the start.

We will judge and rule over angels with Christ as our head (1 Cor 6:3). We are co-inheritors with him in all things.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Anthony,

Me: Christ is not God incarnate. He is not the Word incarnate. He is not the Word of God with a body all at once. God does not change. The Word (exact spirit image of God’s mind) was conceived in and with the human Messiah’s mind and body. As God Almighty cannot change, the Word could not change because it is the exact spirit image or expression of God. Now the spirit mind of Christ is the Word. The holy spirit grew there and the Word regained the glory it had with God (John 17:5) after Christ’s ascension into heaven.  Now the Word was one with the heart and mind of man.

Ever wonder why Christ could only speak what words God almighty told him to? It is because the Word is the exact image and expression of God. It is God himself expressed.  The Word was not born or created. It became one with the seed of David. As we have a human mind and a spirit mind later when born of the spirit, Christ had a human mind, but had a spirit mind (the Word) at conception. As we have a human spirit and are born of the spirit of God later, Christ was conceived with the spirit of God. As we die to our human spirit, and have only the holy spirit at the end, The holy spirit in Christ was the only spirit at conception and did not die. The human heart and mind of Christ did. The human body of Christ did die. What dies will corrupt eventually. But Christ’s body was not long enough in the earth to corrupt.

1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption (natural body of the human spirit) inherit incorruption (the holy spirit).

The Messiah became the second Adam after his ascension into heaven with a body of the spirit that does not corrupt. We become sons through adoption in Christ (Eph 1:5). This means that Christ had to become the son of God at his conception. For he has no ancestors of the spirit other than God as his progenitor. That is why he is called “son of God”.

New American Standard Bible
1 Peter 1:23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Me: What does this mean? It means that Adam could have died even before he had disobeyed God. But when he disobeyed God, he would surely and absolutely die. But God would have revived him. If he had eaten of the tree of life, he could not have died. The same is true of Christ, who without sin would not have died naturally, but could have died and did at the cross. If God had not risen him from the dead, he would have corrupted

Dan 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. 25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God…3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Me: The Word appeared “like the son of God” but was not the son of God in the OT.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Me: The Messiah was called and was the Son of God at conception, not in the OT. He was the second Adam when he had ascended into heaven.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Anthony,

 

You: Elohim, notoriously and purposefully takes singular verbs almost always, with few exceptions. Here is what I am looking to put forth today: “Elohim”communicates plurality even when it is used singularly. We can know this because:
• God had other words He could have used (the two singular terms, El and Eloah).
• Elohim other than YHWH are plural, without doubt.
• God chooses the plural form “Elohim” often, even when the usage is singular

Me:

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me

Neh 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Psalm 18:31 For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God,

Me: Does Elohim really mean a “plural oneness” or a “plurality of persons”?
The best explanation, I believe, is from the below link.

Did Someone Find the Doctrine of the Trinity In the Name of God? Why is God’s Name “Elohim” Plural?

From the Author:

Moreover, if the name of God is to signify a plurality in the godhead, why wasn’t the name Jehovah, which is by far the most frequently used name for God in the Jewish Scriptures, also written in the plural? Clearly, this sort of Trinitarian argument is baseless.

However with Elohim the construction is grammatically singular, (i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective) when referring to the God of Israel, but grammatically plural elohim (i.e. taking a plural verb or adjective) when used of pagan divinities (Psalms 96:5; 97:7).

The noun, Yahweh is always singular. So, Elohim has to be likewise the singular form (plural intensive) to describe the true God. Elohim is used in plural form to describe the many false pagan Gods but only in singular form (plural intensive) to show majesty.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/elohiym.html
http://searchforbibletruths.blogspot.com/2010/02/does-elohim-really-mean-plural-oneness.html

Comment: Plural of excellence and not of number refers to the Almighty. Plural in number refers to beings that are not the Almighty as in man and the angels. Although the article above is a JW article, it smacks of the truth.

[Anthony]

Hi TC

Do you believe sort of like

Apollinarianism

Who taught it? Apollinaris of Laodicea (4th century)

What is it? Jesus is not equally human and divine, but one person with one nature. In Jesus’ human flesh resided a divine mind (he didn’t have a human mind). Thus, Jesus was only two-thirds human.

Key text? John 1:14: “The Word became flesh” [and not a human mind].

[Truthcomber]

Hi Anthony,

You:

“And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
And he is the head of the body, the church: [He] who is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence [be first].
• Colossians 1:17–18
• He is before all things
• All things consist in Him
• All things come after Him
• NOTE: He is firstborn of every creature (verse 15), just as
He is firstborn from the dead (verse 18)

Me: 

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For (1722. en: within) him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created (1223. dia: on account of him, and for him): 17 And he is before  (ranks higher than) all things, and (within :1722. en) him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, (for whom) are all things, and we by him.

Col 1:15-17 Corresponds with 1 Cor 8:6.In 1 Cor 8:6 of “whom are all things” is clearly referring to the Father (Isa 9:6) and is a proof that Col 1:17 is referring to the Father within Christ as the creator. Col 1:16 is referring to the Father in verse 15, “the invisible God within Christ as the creator. All things were created on account of or for whom are all things in 1 Cor 8:6). This is consistence with Christ as the inheritor of all things (Romans 8:17). God in Christ is expressed through his Word, which is the exact image of himself and is God. The Word is the invisible, visible and audible image of the invisible God and how he expresses himself. The invisible image or expression of God was in Christ (2 Cor 5:19).

All emphasis in the parenthesis are mine.

http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/TTD/verses/1cor10_4.html

From the Author:
However, the best manuscript evidence does not read “Christ” in this verse. Codex Sinaiticus and Vaticanus read “Lord” rather than “Christ.” Codex Alexandrinus reads “God” rather than “Christ.” Trinitarians simply ignore the important manuscript evidence and cherry pick what suits their apologetic needs.

Me: Thus:

1 Cor 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was God.

Psalm 18:31 For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God,

[Anthony]

Hi TC .  For one thing.

Angels Cannot be Sons of God

“For unto which of the angels said he at any time, 
     [1] ‘You are my Son, this day have I begotten you?’ And again, 
     [2] ‘I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?’”

• Hebrews 1:5

I believe Paul wrote Hebrews, and that Paul repeats in a very short amount of space the same rhetorical question which has a negative answer:“which of the angels said He?” And again, “I will be to him a Father …?”

Conclusions from Hebrews 1:5: Angels can never be called a “son,” ever, no angel anywhere, Likewise, “the Son of God” is not an angel. No Sons of God are angels. That does not mean the Sons of God cannot carry messages, but they are not designated with the official title of “messenger” (malaka in Hebrew or aggelos in Greek). Likewise, angels can never call God their“father.” Finally, angels are never “begotten.” The Sons of God, however, were the gods of the nations:

[Truthcomber]

Hi Anthony.

 

You:

Who taught it? Apollinaris of Laodicea (4th century)

Psalm 18:31 For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God,

You: Key text? John 1:14: “The Word became flesh” [and not a human mind].

Me:

1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Me: The Word is God expressed and is God. God cannot change. The Word cannot become flesh. As I have explained before, the Word became one with flesh in the flesh of the seed of David.

You: What is it? Jesus is not equally human and divine, but one person with one nature. In Jesus’ human flesh resided a divine mind (he didn’t have a human mind). Thus, Jesus was only two-thirds human.

Me: I didn’t quit get your gibberish. You miss the whole message of the Gospel. God cannot die. Christ died in his flesh for us. Flesh does not mean body only, but the heart of a man.

Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet____because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Me: There, two natures.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Anthony:

You: Angels Cannot be Sons of God
“For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
[1] ‘You are my Son, this day have I begotten you?’ And again,
[2] ‘I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?’”
• Hebrews 1:5
I believe Paul wrote Hebrews, and that Paul repeats in a very short amount of space the same rhetorical question which has a negative answer:“which of the angels said He?” And again, “I will be to him a Father …?”
Conclusions from Hebrews 1:5: Angels can never be called a “son,” ever, no angel anywhere, Likewise, “the Son of God” is not an angel. No Sons of God are angels. That does not mean the Sons of God cannot carry messages, but they are not designated with the official title of “messenger” (malaka in Hebrew or aggelos in Greek). Likewise, angels can never call God their“father.” Finally, angels are never “begotten.” The Sons of God, however, were the gods of the nations:

Me: I had explained this to you. Angels have no ancestors. They are created by God and are in his image. Therefore, they are sons of God and sons of no one else. The first Adam was called a son of God because he too was created in the image of God had no ancestors but was had God as he progenitor.

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Paul was stating the fact that just because angels are called sons of God, they are not true sons of God like Christ is and what we are to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_God

[The Word’s Watchman]

Gene,

You have freewill, it comes from God. You decide whether to believe or not believe, it’s your choice. As Jesus chose “not my will but your’s”. Accusing God of evil is one of the greatest tricks the devil uses to deceive people. As mentioned, not everyone was fully aware of the devil and his kingdom until Christ exposed it. I’m not aware of anyone casting out devil spirits before he came, recorded in the gospels. The gospels show what’s really going on behind the scenes, that satan has people bound, that’s why they devil spirits trembled when they saw Jesus, he cast them out. Satan had the power of death, sickness is death in part, this is why Jesus came to destroy him. Satan is the counterfeit god, if he can get folks to blame the true God for the death and destruction he causes, then he’s won over that person. God is Light and in him is no darkness at all. Darkness is the absence of light.

God gave satan freewill, but he sought his own will, and God permits him to do what he does because He is just. God knows the future and knows who will believe and who will not. Prophesy is fulfilled because God already knows the outcome, not because he made it happen by force. Believers walk in the fulfillment of prophesy, God already knows the outcome. God knew satan would rebel, he knew we’d need a savior and had a plan all along, he knew Jesus Christ would be that savior since before the foundations of the earth fulfilling that plan. He knew whether you would believe, since before the foundations. Again the spirit realm is not bound by space and time, tough concept for us linear thinkers.

 

Anthony,

Some reply’s are too literal. Jesus wasn’t literally the Rock in the OT, it’s figurative. He’s not literally, Bread from heaven, we don’t literally eat his flesh and drink his blood, it’s symbolic. We aren’t literally the body of Christ, it’s allegorical. God uses figures of speech to express spiritual truths. He’s Spirit.

[Anthony]

Hi TC

So this doesn’t say anything to you

Proverbs 8:24-30 (NIV)
24 When there were no oceans,I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth. 26 before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, 29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. 30 Then I was constantly at his (Father’s)side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence.

Although these verses speak about ‘the Wisdom of God’, they are actually referring to Jesus Christ. Apostle Paul says that Christ is the wisdom of God in 1 Corinthians 1:24. Proverbs 8:24-30  and say that Jesus Christ only had one nature The God the Father if Joseph and Mary had anything to do with Him He would had Sin as we do. He had no biological connection to anyone other then His Father ,the Father prepared His body not Josi or Mary. So we disagree. God bless to you TC

[GeneBalthrop]

TWW….if there were such a thing as a “truly” will that was free, then no one not even God could predict it’s out come, all will are captivate and driven, the term “freewill” is a Oxymoron. Everything works by design and follows it’s designed out come. That is why God can predict out come, of people.
You did not “freely” chose to believe in God, he creTed you that way, just as Jesus told his deciples t h ey did not hose him he chose them, they were predestined to do what they did, Just as Judas was also, nothing “free” about it. No one can “freely” chooses to come to Jesus, they are drawn by God.

Freewill is just another Satanic lie, why would Jesus say not my will but thy will be done? It is obvious his will was not God’s will or he would not have ask him to remove his God’s will for him to die from him. Satan truly wants people to think they have freewills, to build pride in them, and descredit their creator.

All will are driven by whats “influencing” the the most and they will do that every time. Unless God’s spirit is overcomming their own wills, as in the case of Jesus. Who said “not my will, but thy will be done”. There is a whole thread on this subject, check it out.

Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene

[Truthcomber]

Hi Anthony,

 

You: So this doesn’t say anything to you
Proverbs 8:24-30 (NIV)
24 When there were no oceans,I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth. 26 before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, 29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. 30 Then I was constantly at his (Father’s)side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence.
Although these verses speak about ‘the Wisdom of God’, they are actually referring to Jesus Christ. Apostle Paul says that Christ is the wisdom of God in 1 Corinthians 1:24. Proverbs 8:24-30 and say that Jesus Christ only had one nature The God the Father if Joseph and Mary had anything to do with Him He would had Sin as we do. He had no biological connection to anyone other then His Father, the Father prepared His body not Josi or Mary. So we disagree. God bless to you TC

 

Me:

1 Cor 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Me:

1 Cor 1 is addressing the wisdom of God in us. The wisdom of God here is choosing the foolish things of the world. It is foolishness to the world for us to believe preaching and faith unto salvation. For the Greeks require wisdom and the Jews a sign or proof following the wisdom of the world. So, God confounds the wise in their wisdom. Case in point, glorify God and not yourselves/ The wisdom that God used in creation of the universe is with the understanding of the rules of science which he created, not here.

Versus:

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Me: Job had faith in God, but he did not have the wisdom of Prov 8:24-30. Yes, the Word of God (God expressed) did have this wisdom and is God. The Word in Christ was before the foundations of the worlds or ages. So was our heavenly father who is one and same with his expression, but is greater than his expression. These are my thoughts on this.  The rest we have discussed already.

[Jodi]

Hi Anthony,

Galatians 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say “and to seeds,” as though referring to many, but and to your seed, referring to one, who is Christ.

17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. 19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

The Christ, the anointed man Jesus, was the promise given to Abraham by YHWH where Abraham’s SEED would be the coming Messiah, the coming man anointed with YHWH’s Spirit.

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not….9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Romans 1:3 regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David, 4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.

Abraham’s SEED would be the Christ the man to receive the seed of YHWH, YHWH’s Spirit. Isaiah tells us that a servant, a man elected by YHWH would be called by YHWH to righteousness. YHWH would hold his hand and KEEP him through an anointing of YHWH’S Spirit. He would bring forth a man into righteousness, keeping a mortal man from sin. Through the Spirit of holiness Jesus the son of David, was the anointed, the APPOINTED Son of Man becoming a Son of God.

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

The Son of God is a PERFECT MAN, he is the measure of the fullness of an anointing, which is why he is called Christ. He is perfect because with YHWH’s Spirit he remained without sin.

Anthony listen to the scriptures, you are dead wrong about whose seed Jesus is from, the Christ Jesus is Abraham’s seed, and he still is Abraham’s seed, but he is also of the seed of YHWH in away that ALL those in Christ will ALSO become of the seed of YHWH.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Matthew 26: 64 Jesus saith unto him,Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of MAN sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus was the seed of Abraham that was BORN of God’s Spirit at the river. As the seed of Abraham he was a man that grew in YHWH’s wisdom, he knew as a child to choose the good over the evil. YHWH found him to be well pleasing, a devoted servant, before he was born of the tribe of Judah YHWH had foreordained him to be a lamb without spot. This is because he was the servant whom YHWH would anoint with His Spirit without measure. He would be the only mortal man to come to his death where no sin was found in him. YHWH had elected a man, called him to righteousness and kept him from sin.

John 6: 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my FLESH, which I will give for the life of the world.”

The living bread that came down from heaven was FLESH, not any flesh but flesh that was kept from sin. A begotten god a pre-existing son did NOT come down from heaven. A MAN to be kept from SIN came from heaven meaning came directly from YHWH. His Spirit came down and ANOINTED FLESH in order to keep it from sin so that it could be a propitiation for our sins. The living bread that came down from heaven Jesus says clearly is HIS FLESH!! This flesh that would be kept from sin, that was anointed with powers was SENT out into the world. 

2 John 1: 3 Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father’s Son, will be with us in truth and love.7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

The Father’s Son is Jesus THE CHRIST, it was his anointing, his call to righteousness that would keep him from sin that made him a Son. A Son of God is anyone where no sin is found in them. Jesus was the only MORTAL man who remained without sin, and this was because he was the only MORTAL human who had been BORN of God’s Spirit without measure. This is what makes Jesus the “only begotten Son”. It pertains precisely to him as a mortal who would remain without sin. This is the Son that YHWH gave to us to pay for our sins. The BLOOD of a perfect man paid for our sins. Remember the unity of our faith is that the Son of God IS A PERFECT MAN, also do not forget the words of 1 John 3, they fit perfectly given the definition of what a Son of God means. 

Jesus could do nothing of himself, that is because he was a man in the flesh, a man of the genealogy of David, of Abraham, of Adam. He had to be born of YHWH and through the works of YHWH’s Spirit Jesus says he preached God’s words, he performed signs and miracles.

Gene speaks correctly in regards to understanding God and gods.

Pagans believed that there were many gods, and they identified them as gods BECAUSE of the false powers pagans believed that these gods had. YHWH, the only true God, is the only true God because He alone exists with powers, but He can give those powers to angels and humans, He can give them to any creature He has made and He does so according to His will.

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

YHWH and His powers (Elohiym) created the earth and the heavens.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in HIS own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Anthony, it was YHWH and His Powers that made man in the image of Himself, He and His powers, which make Him Eloiym, the only true Elohiym. We were made in the image of the true Elohiym the powers and character of YHWH.

YHWH’s powers control the elements of the earth, they formed the earth and the heavens through great intelligence/wisdom, with understanding and knowledge, He holds all truth as He is the designer behind all of His creation and how it is to properly function. His goal was to bring mankind into the image of Himself. Jesus is the firstborn into this image, being the firstborn of the dead being made complete in YHWH’s image having received eternal life. 

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Jesus as long as he remained without sin was a Son of God, but he was not perfect, perfection came when he was tested to following God’s will unto death.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The glorious gospel of Christ is that YHWH raised a man from the dead and gave this perfected man eternal life, and that we are to share in what he received, a body that is perfect no longer able to feel pain, be tempted, sin, or die. A body that is not separated from YHWH but exists in His image. This is the GLORY that existed before the world was made, as YHWH promised beforehand that He would bring eternal life to mankind.

The powers of YHWH are the gifts of YHWH’s Spirit, there are many gifts that YHWH can give, wisdom, understanding, knowledge…which cause many different things, such as the ability to control the elements of heaven and earth, the ability to speak God’s words, the ability to see the future, the ability to read men’s hearts and minds and know what they are thinking. When a creature of YHWH whom He has made is given a power or powers they are being shown as an image of YHWH. Likewise when we have the fruit of YHWH’s Spirit we are seen with the characteristics of YHWH, “love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance.” No one is good, only YHWH is good, He is the source. Any good deed by a man, that man in that deed is in the image of YHWH.

YHWH made man in His own image, His plan was to make mankind into the image of His powers to completion, which hold all the attributes of His character, and also eternal life, because YHWH is life.

The CHRIST who was sent out into the world, represents the only mortal human that was given YHWH’s powers and character without measure. The bread from heaven was sent, FLESH that would remain without sin was sent out into the world.  FLESH that could perform signs and miracles. The one true Elohiym was seen through Jesus the anointed FLESH.

Jesus was not identified as the Son of God by the people until they saw him having YHWH’s powers and his goodness. With those powers without measure he was seen as Elohiym, he was in the form of Elohiym through the one true Elohiym YHWH giving him the fruits of His Spirit.

 

 

[Jodi]

Hi The Word’s Watchmen,

You said, “You have freewill, it comes from God. You decide whether to believe or not believe, it’s your choice. As Jesus chose “not my will but your’s”. Accusing God of evil is one of the greatest tricks the devil uses to deceive people.”

The words translated good and evil is function and dysfunction according to ancient Hebrews.

God brought forth dysfunction onto earth, He brought forth thorns, weeds, pestilence, drought, famine, viruses, bacteria. He brought forth blindness, palsy, leprosy, madness..etc.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Ra-

bad, evil
bad, disagreeable, malignant
bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
evil, displeasing
bad (of its kind – land, water, etc)
bad (of value)
worse than, worst (comparison)
sad, unhappy
evil (hurtful)
bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
bad, evil, wicked (ethically)
in general, of persons, of thoughts
deeds, actions n m
evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
evil, distress, adversity
evil, injury, wrong
evil (ethical) n f
evil, misery, distress, injury
evil, misery, distress
evil, injury, wrong
evil (ethical)

God said He would punish and He would curse, these are most certainly acts that cause injury, distress, that are unpleasant and miserable.

Jesus did nothing of himself. Jesus said only God is good. Jesus denied man’s will choosing God’s will because God was influencing him, God was holding his hand, and keeping him in righteousness. What God wills happens, this is how He is the one true God. No one can deny the CALLING of YHWH and His will! You think that the influence of ignorant mortal man is more powerful than the influences of YHWH? When YHWH chooses to give a person mercy, He is choosing to give them an influence that is too powerful to deny. Man CANNOT choose to follow God through himself through his own works it takes the work of God’s Spirit influencing man’s spirit. Jesus chose God because God’s influence supersedes any influence, it is more powerful than any other influence, Jesus was given God’s Spirit without measure. You make the mistake thinking that God is calling all right now, NO He is calling saints, He has an elect group of people for the first resurrection.

Gene is right we do not have free wills. We make choices based on the influences in our environment. We make choices based on nature and nurture. Think about it! Some people are born with more of a disposition of selfishness than others, some are born more hot tempered than others. Some people are born in poverty where the influences surrounding them are nothing but evil like drugs, gangs, violence, theft.  Others are born into wealth, intelligent parents, their given a moral up bringing. Your will is a product of your influences, you are NOT FREE, there are influences out of your complete control. God has mercy on mankind, He causes people to be resilient to hardship and things like abuse or neglect. Man is not GOOD, he only chooses to be good because God has influenced him. We are told that we are BOUND through the fear of death, by nature we are children of wrath. How on earth are we of a free will, if our will is bound in the fear of death? By nature like animals we have instincts that tells us to survive at any cost. God has to dwell in us to overcome. It takes being born of the Spirit to overcome the flesh. Seems like you are saying that the flesh must choose the Spirit. We do not choose when God decides to be a potter over His clay, and bring His clay to righteousness of faith, God does.

Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

The Spirit of Christ was in the beginning with God and was God.

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi….God has blessed you with the ability to expound the scriptures clearly, putting scriptures together rightly is a blessing to us all, it delights my soul to read scriptures so clearly ptesented.
It’s clearly obvious, the spirit of God, which is in you, is guiding you, and those of the spirit can see it sis. Keep up the good work.

Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

[Anthony]

Hi Jodi

I assume your really not getting my main points that these three prophesy of Jesus (Christ) the Messiah. Not just the king of David.    My main point that the Messiah of these prophesy  have no biological connection to anyman or dna what so ever, that the Messiah in these prophesy has only the nature of His Father, God. Therefore He is much more then just a man. If He was just a man He would have Sin. Which He doesn’t. And, if I thought if I put up a nother post from (even) a different direction then the last two, that I made, scene we first talk. I would, but I’m not going to because we just won’t get anywhere.  So Be It  we just don’t agree. God bless

 

[Anthony]

Hi All

Even the doctorine of        Imputation, say that Jesus Christ isn’t just a man. God bless.

[Anthony]

Hi All

In saying all that in the attempt to.     Proof that Jesus Christ, the Messiah to come, as spoken in the old testament. The Only Begotten Son of Father God is not just a man. So there no longer anything I can say here in preexistence (part 2) .

God bless.

[Jodi]

Good Morning Anthony,

Exodus 36:1 Then wrought Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whom the LORD put wisdom and understanding to know how to work all manner of work for the service of the sanctuary, according to all that the LORD had commanded.

1 Kings 5:12 And the LORD gave Solomon wisdom, as he promised him: and there was peace between Hiram and Solomon; and they two made a league together.

Psalms 104:24 O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.

Proverbs 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Proverbs 3:19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

Proverbs 8:1 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice? 2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths. 3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors. 4 Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man. 5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart. 6 Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things. 7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them. 9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge. 10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold. 11 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it. 12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Wisdom is one of YHWH’s powers, it is of His Spirit, it is what makes Him the only true Elohiym. YHWH made man in His image, YHWH created man to gain His wisdom. 

13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. 14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength. 15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. 16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. 17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. 18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness. 19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver. 20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment: 21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures. 22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

Anthony, WISDOM comes from YHWH the message here is that “O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart,” we can do nothing of ourselves we are ignorant, a man needs YHWH’s wisdom. 

When YHWH said let us make man in our image, He was speaking of Him and all the fruits of His Spirit, which include the Spirit of Wisdom. YHWH founded the earth by His wisdom, by His wisdom the earth was made and MAN therein. He did not beget some son before creation and make him the Spirit of wisdom. There are numerous scriptures saying that wisdom is coming directly from YHWH, not a begotten Son. Isaiah tells us of a man who YHWH would give His Spirit of wisdom to. Isaiah tells us that this man of the seed of Jesse David’s father, Abraham’s son, would slay the wicked. The DAY that this seed of Abraham would be filled with God’s Spirit which included wisdom, was at his baptism. Jesus quotes Isaiah just after his baptism we read in Luke 4, where Jesus says the Spirit is upon him and he is being sent.

We are told in the below scripture that a son of David YHWH would beget. We are likewise told that the seed of Abraham would be the anointed one. Jesus was the full measure of an anointing, that fullness of an anointing was a call to righteousness, FLESH being called to remain without sin, so that it could be a propitiation for our sins. We kiss this Son, the one of David’s seed that YHWH made His Son, having been born again with His Spirit without measure, which included the Spirit of wisdom that comes from the one true Elohiym.

Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

 

[Author]

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