- This topic has 19,164 replies, 120 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
Edj…No scripture says Jesus came from eternity. But the apostale say Jesus came from the loins of king David. Seems you have some errors to work out. Jesus himself said i am the root and ofspring of David, but you choose to neglect those scriptures, why is that?
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
…, but you choose to neglect those scriptures, why is that?
Hi Gene,
I don’t. Jesus physical self came through David’s DNA,
but the Spirit of Christ came from eternity to
Bethlehem as Micah 5:2 clearly states.Why do YOU dismiss what Micah 5:2 clearly states? why is that?
Hi Edj,
You wrote:
Jesus physical self came through David’s DNA,
but the Spirit of Christ came from eternity to
Bethlehem as Micah 5:2 clearly states.Me:
Mich 5:2
Click on 5769 above the phrase “have been from old” in the link below. There is no definition that says eternity.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/micah/5-2.htmDoes Micah 5:2 Prove The Messiah is God?
From the author:If the person has “origins” (“goings forth”), how can he be a “God?”
Me: So accordingly, he must have been created. Christ is not eternal.
From the author:
“We see the same words that are used in Micah 5:2 has been used in Micah chapter 7 and several other places in the Old Testament.”…
Me: None of the other scriptures use of the word “5769. olam” in the phrase “from eternity” but “from old”
Professor D. Winton Thomas says:
The exile and the return to Jerusalem are here presupposed. A Messiah who will belong to one of the oldest families, that of David (Ezek. 34:23f. ; Am 9:11), will come out of Bethlehem Ephrathah, despite its insignificance ( 2; MT 2:5). Until his birth Israel will be given up Yahweh.[1]HIS GOINGS FORTH ARE FROM LONG AGO is the translation of Mich 5:2 and not his days are from eternity.
Me:
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Ez 28:6…the heart of God…
Comment: Bosom means the intimacy of one’s heart, and heart is in the mind of God. God brought Christ into existence from the impression he had in his mind.
EDJ….”The spirit of Christ”, is the anointing spirit of God, that Jesus was anointed with, that spirit was the Spirit of God, not the spirit of the “man” Jesus. The christo’s was God “in” The man Jesus. Not Jesus. The spirit of God was from eternity, Not Jesus.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
No Edj….from eternity, to the Jordan River, because that is where the “christo’s” (anointing spirit of God) entered into the “MAN” Jesus, and abided “in” him, and spoke through him.
Clear and simple to those who know the truth, No “mystery” religious teaching needed, just that simple.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
from eternity to Bethlehem
No Edj….from eternity, to the Jordan River
No Gene,
from eternity to Bethlehem:
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. (Micah 5:2)____________
God bless
Ed JEdj….That is talking about the plan of God, which God had inhis mind, to happen in the future, Jesus himself, was not in existence yet at that time, God who is spirit, and from eternity, was the one who brought Jesus forth, he was God’s plan from eternity. Jesus did not exist untill he came into his prophecied time, which was from eternity,
The words to be, (future tense), should tell you it’s a future event, and is not talking about something that already exists.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Edj….That is talking about the plan of God, …
No Gene,
Will you say this was merely a plan too…
“Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ
which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand
the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.” (1 Peter 1:11)No, the Spirit of Christ came from eternity to be birthed in Bethlehem just as Micah 5:2 states!
Hi Ed J,
1 Peter 1:11 needs to be understood in the whole of scripture. The “Spirit of Christ” is not the Spirit Jesus Christ, but rather the Spirit of God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
In like fashion, the “epistle of Christ” isn’t Christ the epistle, or he didn’t write the epistle that Paul was referring to, but rather about or pertaining to Christ.
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me (Jesus), because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. – Prophesy fulfilledEven John the Baptist had holy spirit before he was even born (Luke 1:15).
But Jesus was given it without measure. Joh 3:34 For he (Jesus) whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
OT prophets/believers had God’s Spirit, pertaining to Christ. They searched concerning the grace that would be brought concerning the messiah, but didn’t have the full knowledge of the mystery, that the Gentiles would partake in all the promises God made to the his people. And that anyone who believed on Christ could get born again with the spirit from above; context of 1 Peter.
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them (gentiles) the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?Hi Gregory,
I am inferring from the post that you did that you do not believe in the pre-existence of the Messiah. I likewise do not. But I do not believe that John the Baptist had the holy spirit in the womb before he was born. I think this aspect is unique to the Messiah, the only begotten son of God from conception as indicated by Luke 1:35 below. .
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The holy spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing (still an embryo) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of GodMe: Instead, I believe John the Baptist had the spirit of God from birth and maybe before that, but not at conception. .
Luke 1:14 (YLT)) and there shall be joy to thee, and gladness, and many at his birth shall joy 15 for he shall be great before the Lord, and wine and strong drink he may not drink, and of the Holy Spirit he shall be full, even from his mother’s womb;…41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; (also) Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
“also” in lieu of “and” in the parenthesis is mine)
Me: Click on the link below. Then click on “1537” above “from” for verse 14 above. The definition is “from” and not “in”.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/1-15.htmMe: Click on the link below. Then click on “2532” above “and”
NASB definition:
and, even, also
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/1-41.htmMe: I believe “even” is the best fit. So even though John the Baptist may have been filled with the holy spirit before his birth at Elizabeth’s salutation of Mary, he definitely was not conceived of the holy spirit like the Messiah was at conception.
(1) The “Spirit of Christ” is not the Spirit Jesus Christ, but rather the Spirit of God.
(2) Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1) FALSE
2)
“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me,
he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and
[]b]We[/b] will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.” (John 14:23)1. the Spirit of God
2. the Spirit of Christ____________
God bless
Ed JHi TC God bless,
Whether JB had holy spirit before being born, during gestation, or from (ek – out from) actual birth, probably not too critical in the whole scheme of things. Point is he had holy spirit before/at birth. Jesus however, received holy spirit upon being baptized by John.
ED J, Bless you sir.
Jesus, received holy spirit, at the beginning of his ministry, as it says in scripture.
Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending (Jesus), and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.Mar 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:As indicated in Luke 2. Jesus grew and increased from a lad. If he already had the Holy spirit or was the Holy Spirit, or his own spirit, there would be no reason for him to have it descend upon him. Your argument is saying that there is a spirit of God and a spirit of Christ (unless I misunderstand what you are saying); that would mean there are two different spirits. These are just two ways of saying the same thing; 1 Corinthians 12 tells us only One Spirit.
Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
True.
Hi TC,
How far back he goes into eternity past is irrelevant to the point,
the point being the spirit of Christ preexisted Christ’s birth.
Long ago is an affirmation Christ preexisted his birth.____________
God bless
Ed JYou:
TC….No one has risen from the grave but Jesus, and scripture say “it is appointed unto man to die then after that the Judgement”. There is truly a “frist resurection” and a second resurection. Your saying that the saints didn’t die , after pentocost is wrong, all of them died and are waiting the resurection.
Me:
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:’
Me: Click on the link below. Then click on 530 above “once”.
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/hebrews/9-27.htm
once (9), once for all (3), once more (2).
“Once for all” fits our overall understanding because we know from the past that people were resurrected from their physical deaths only to die again. Thus,Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once for all to die, but after this the judgment:’
Me: the word “2920. krisis” can be used in a good sense as in Matt 12:18 and Matt 23:23 below. Click on the link below. Then click on 2920 above judgment.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/9-27.htm
One definition is (5) a just causeMatt 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Matt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. So, I believe “judgment” in Heb 9:27 is used with a good cause. So is it for the saints at the return of Christ. Judgement is now on the household of God. At the coming of Christ, they receive their rewards or judgment.You:
The scripture where Jesus said they that are alive and believe on me shall (never die), should be rendered “never parish”, for “all” have sinned and therefore “all” die. What God the Father says happens, his words don’t change for anyone.Jesus removed our “eternal” death sentence, not our death sentence, “the wages of sin is death, all have sinned all die. Jesus did not remove death, his sacfifice removed the “eternal” death sentence, so we would not “parish”, its one thing to die, it’s quite another to “parish”.Me: The word apothnéskó could mean perish, but in light of the text I believe it means death.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Me: Verse 25 and 26 together convey this:
Sense 1 Even though you are dead in your sins (vs 25), if you believe in me, I will resurrect you from the death that your sin nature causes. Then after you are resurrected into life, you will never die. What is the sin that causes you to die that cannot repent of? It is the sin of Adam. Because of Adam’s sin, death is passed on to all men. Because of the second man Adam’s death, death is abolished when we resurrect with Christ. The first sin caused eternal death. The second death caused eternal life. When we die with Christ, we die the second death with him. The body of sin or old man that causes us to sin was crucified.
You:
No one has risen from the dead, except Jesus, the rest who have died are still dead, resting in their graves waiting for the resurection to take place, even the Saints, who are the first fruits of then that sleep will come to life again at the first resurection, the rest wait for the second resurection, at the great white throne judgement when the books are opened and they are judged according to their works.
There are only two general resurrections in the bible. The first and the last. It’s best to be in the first.Me: As per my discourse above, I disagree.
Page 223
Hi Gene,
You wrote:
TC….THE TERM CHRISTO’S, is not the man Jesus, it is the ANOINTING SPIRIT OF GOD, when we say Jesus Christ, we are not saying Jesus is the CHRISTO’S we are saying Jesus is the anointed one of God, the christo’s is God the Father that was “in” The man Jesus, the spirit “of” christ is the anointting Spirit of God, not Jesus.
The same applies to us, we also who have recieved the anointing spirit of God are also christo’s or anointed ones of God the Father., the CHRISTO’S BEING THE COMMON DEMOMINATOR, which makes us “in” the anointing that Jesus is “in” with God the Father, so we are all sritually connected with the Father, Jesus, and each other. ONE GOD “IN” ALL AND THROUGH ALL. That is the way i understand it.
Me: Looks like it is true. I never did disagree with this. This next remark is a little out of focus. When you say “God the Farther”, this is in reference to the trinity, i.e. “God the Father”,“God the son” and “God the Holy Sprit”. I know you didn’t realize this. Also, by capitalizing holy spirit, you acknowledge the holy spirit as the third person of the trinity. .I do not believe JESUS is himself the spirit, he was anointed with, i believe that was how the Father was “in” him and exactly how the Father is also “in” us. None of that makes Jesus or us the CHRISTO’S ourselves not now or ever will be us, but simply God the Father working in us and through us all.
Me:
True, I believe his spirit is in our minds.
You:
I also believe there are no such things as a spirit (body) there is a “spritual” body, of believers that have a flesh and bone body, and when the die, they are spiritually regenerated at the resrection.
Me:
New American Standard Bible
1 Cor 15:45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit…38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed (spirit) his own body.Me: We are from the seeds of the first Adam’s soul (here the human spirit) first, and then the second’s Adam’s spirit (here holy spirit). God had breathe the soul of life with a mind into the first Adam. God begot the holy spirit with a mind into the Messiah.
1 Cor 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Me: Here image is of the spirit and the body develops from it.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Me: Christ’s seed (spirit) that grows in his human mind is the holy spirit.
1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption (perishable) inherit incorruption (immortality).
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_corinthians/15-50.htmMe: That is why Christ’s body was changed into a glorious one made in the image of his physical one (Luke 21:18). That is why the human soul is not immortal. It cannot inherit an immortal body.
1 Cor 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
You:
Just as Ezekiel described at the valley of dead bones. God is a spirit who generates new physical bodies and places the spirit of life in them, and they become a living soul again at the resurrection.
Me:
Ezk 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Me: The valley of the bones prophecy pertains to a physical resurrection. These were a disobedient people:
Ezk 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh (the mind of Christ). 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Me: I believe this is in the millennium after the Messiah returns with the resurrected saints.
You: I believe The saint’s do die, and are considered as asleep until the time of the resurrection, “that will witness the redemption of their “bodies”. When we die our bodies see coruption and go back to dust from which it came, but GOD RECREATES US ANOTHER BODY OF FLESH AND BONE AS JESUS NOW HAS.
Me: disagree!
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Hi Gregory,
You:
Whether JB had holy spirit before being born, during gestation, or from (ek – out from) actual birth, probably not too critical in the whole scheme of things. Point is he had holy spirit before/at birth. Jesus however, received holy spirit upon being baptized by John.
Me: I went over this with Nick before. First, water baptism symbolizes the death and resurrection of the Messiah. Since Christ had not become the sacrificial lamb yet, John’s baptism was only of repentance (Acts 19:4). Therefore, the baptism of John did not lead to Christ receiving of the holy spirit. Nobody had received the holy spirit between John the Baptist and when Christ was resurrected physical here on earth—not even his apostles. He had given of the holy spirit to his apostles after his resurrection here on earth (John 20:22). He had the promise of the holy spirit after he had ascended into heaven. Work in process of the developing the Messiah’ human heart and mind into the holy spirit was complete at this point.
Christ had grown mightily in the spirit (Luke 2:40, 52) before Jordan (Luke 3:22). How could the Messiah grow in the holy spirit if he wasn’t first begotten of it? What he received at Jordon was anointing power to do the will of his father in a powerful way and to die for our sins in the end.
John 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst you.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/17-21.htmMatt 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Me: John would need to be baptized with the holy spirit of promise after Christ had ascended into heaven. He was born of the holy spirit, but he was not baptized yet of the holy spirit. John would be baptized of the holy spirit in his grave, just like David would be. So the promise of the holy spirit is the baptism of the holy spirit.
It wasn’t until his glorification in heaven that he was born of the power of God. Then he could give of the spirit with the promise of his human mind and heart in it. He had thus become a life giving spirit. Through the baptism of the holy spirit. His father was in him and he in his father through the holy spirit. Thus the spirit was in the hearts and minds of both.
Christ was the son of God directly. He was begotten with the spirit of God as his spirit, and not with the soul of man. His conception of the holy spirit was at birth. He is preeminence among his brethren in all things (Col 1:18) If John had been born of the spirit of God since conception and Christ at Jordan, then John would be preeminent in this regards. But Christ has preeminence in all things Eventually, there is one spirit in all. It is the holy spirit. All will be in all.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
