- This topic has 19,164 replies, 120 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 10 2012,21:12) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,03:38) T8, Scripture in no way explicitly teaches that Jesus existed before he was conceived. You and others believe it is inferred by certain passages.
kerwinyou do not believe in what Christ himself says ,why would you look in the bible any way
if you do not believe what the son of God tells you then you have forfit GODS WORD ANYWAY.
T,There is nowhere in Scripture it states the words Jesus Christ is preexistent” As far as I know the word preexistent is not even in the Bible.
As to believing, “who is the primary one whom knows all things of God?”
I will give you a hint: It is not Jesus.
Here is another hint which explicitly answers my question.
1 Corinthians 2
King James Version (KJV)11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Do you believe the answer?
You may answer yes but your words infer no. For you fail to understand that it is the same one spoken of in John 1:18 with these words.
John 1:18
King James Version (KJV)18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Who is the one in these two passages?
* If you answer Jesus you deny the Spirit.
* If you answer the Spirit for one and Jesus for the other then you deny the Spirit in Christ and make it two primary entities that know the things of God.
* If you answer the Spirit then you accept there us only one that knows(and therefore sees) God and has revealed him first to Christ.Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,21:46) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 10 2012,21:12) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,03:38) T8, Scripture in no way explicitly teaches that Jesus existed before he was conceived. You and others believe it is inferred by certain passages.
kerwinyou do not believe in what Christ himself says ,why would you look in the bible any way
if you do not believe what the son of God tells you then you have forfit GODS WORD ANYWAY.
T,There is nowhere in Scripture it states the words Jesus Christ is preexistent” As far as I know the word preexistent is not even in the Bible.
As to believing, “who is the primary one whom knows all things of God?”
I will give you a hint: It is not Jesus.
Here is another hint which explicitly answers my question.
1 Corinthians 2
King James Version (KJV)11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Do you believe the answer?
You may answer yes but your words infer no. For you fail to understand that it is the same one spoken of in John 1:18 with these words.
John 1:18
King James Version (KJV)18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Who is the one in these two passages?
* If you answer Jesus you deny the Spirit.
* If you answer the Spirit for one and Jesus for the other then you deny the Spirit in Christ and make it two primary entities that know the things of God.
* If you answer the Spirit then you accept there us only one that knows(and therefore sees) God and has revealed him first to Christ.
KERWINyou shifting away from the preexistance of Christ ;the preexistance of Christ does not mean that Christ his God ,but only the son of God his father ,
you still deny Christ when he says that he came DOWN FROM THE FATHER ,
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,17:53) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,21:46) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 10 2012,21:12) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,03:38) T8, Scripture in no way explicitly teaches that Jesus existed before he was conceived. You and others believe it is inferred by certain passages.
kerwinyou do not believe in what Christ himself says ,why would you look in the bible any way
if you do not believe what the son of God tells you then you have forfit GODS WORD ANYWAY.
T,There is nowhere in Scripture it states the words Jesus Christ is preexistent” As far as I know the word preexistent is not even in the Bible.
As to believing, “who is the primary one whom knows all things of God?”
I will give you a hint: It is not Jesus.
Here is another hint which explicitly answers my question.
1 Corinthians 2
King James Version (KJV)11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Do you believe the answer?
You may answer yes but your words infer no. For you fail to understand that it is the same one spoken of in John 1:18 with these words.
John 1:18
King James Version (KJV)18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Who is the one in these two passages?
* If you answer Jesus you deny the Spirit.
* If you answer the Spirit for one and Jesus for the other then you deny the Spirit in Christ and make it two primary entities that know the things of God.
* If you answer the Spirit then you accept there us only one that knows(and therefore sees) God and has revealed him first to Christ.
KERWINyou shifting away from the preexistance of Christ ;the preexistance of Christ does not mean that Christ his God ,but only the son of God his father ,
you still deny Christ when he says that he came DOWN FROM THE FATHER ,
T,I do not deny that the Spirit of the Son comes from God and preexists Jesus' conception. I do affirm that Jesus' flesh and blood is David's flesh and blood and does not preexist his conception.
I also acknowledge it is the Son Spirit that knows all things of God and revealed them first to believers.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 12 2012,18:21) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,17:53) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,21:46) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 10 2012,21:12) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,03:38) T8, Scripture in no way explicitly teaches that Jesus existed before he was conceived. You and others believe it is inferred by certain passages.
kerwinyou do not believe in what Christ himself says ,why would you look in the bible any way
if you do not believe what the son of God tells you then you have forfit GODS WORD ANYWAY.
T,There is nowhere in Scripture it states the words Jesus Christ is preexistent” As far as I know the word preexistent is not even in the Bible.
As to believing, “who is the primary one whom knows all things of God?”
I will give you a hint: It is not Jesus.
Here is another hint which explicitly answers my question.
1 Corinthians 2
King James Version (KJV)11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Do you believe the answer?
You may answer yes but your words infer no. For you fail to understand that it is the same one spoken of in John 1:18 with these words.
John 1:18
King James Version (KJV)18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Who is the one in these two passages?
* If you answer Jesus you deny the Spirit.
* If you answer the Spirit for one and Jesus for the other then you deny the Spirit in Christ and make it two primary entities that know the things of God.
* If you answer the Spirit then you accept there us only one that knows(and therefore sees) God and has revealed him first to Christ.
KERWINyou shifting away from the preexistance of Christ ;the preexistance of Christ does not mean that Christ his God ,but only the son of God his father ,
you still deny Christ when he says that he came DOWN FROM THE FATHER ,
T,I do not deny that the Spirit of the Son comes from God and preexists Jesus' conception. I do affirm that Jesus' flesh and blood is David's flesh and blood and does not preexist his conception.
I also acknowledge it is the Son Spirit that knows all things of God and revealed them first to believers.
Kwe restart from the beguinning again ,I,t8,and mike have given you so many scriptures and you have ignored them all ,
you are on your own friend on this
T,
What you have done is tell me what you believe Scripture both infers and implies.
I told you that Jesus' blood and flesh were conceived in Mary and Scripture teaches the same thing.
I told you the Spirit of the Son comes from heaven and you know all good things come from heaven.
If your teaching does not teach the same things then it is a teaching of man and not God.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,00:58) T, What you have done is tell me what you believe Scripture both infers and implies.
I told you that Jesus' blood and flesh were conceived in Mary and Scripture teaches the same thing.
I told you the Spirit of the Son comes from heaven and you know all good things come from heaven.
If your teaching does not teach the same things then it is a teaching of man and not God.
kQuote I told you the Spirit of the Son comes from heaven and you know all good things come from heaven. what is his spirit
and how could a women be given birth only with one side of the the chromosomes??? because there was no man involved right
and we know God stopped creating on the six day after he made Eve.
and expression that all good things come from above ,does not cut it ,this is related to the actions that the disciples were teaching ACT HAS YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN .
Quote What you have done is tell me what you believe Scripture both infers and implies. 
YOU MUST BE KIDDING,WHEN IT COMES TO SHOW THINGS IN SCRIPTURES YOU BECOMING THE FAST ROAD RUNNER IN THE FORUM.AND NOT TO BEEN SEEN UNTILL THE QUESTIONS TO YOU ARE DEEP INSIDE THE PAGES.
OR YOU PICK SOMETHING IN YOUR OWN MIND TO ANSWER, YOU ARE FUNNYT,
Quote what is his spirit It is the Spirit of God as a man has a spirit. It is also Jehovah's creative force. In addition it teaches and trains in righteousness as well as correcting and rebuking.
Quote and how could a women be given birth only with one side of the the chromosomes??? because there was no man involved right By a miracle of Jehovah.
Quote and we know God stopped creating on the six day after he made Eve. He continued to do wonders.
Quote and expression that all good things come from above ,does not cut it ,this is related to the actions that the disciples were teaching ACT HAS YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN . Are you claiming the Spirit does not come from above.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2012,23:38) T8, Scripture in no way explicitly teaches that Jesus existed before he was conceived. You and others believe it is inferred by certain passages.
Kerwin, I believe these and teach this.
You appear to oppose this because you couldn't repeat this with honest belief in your heart. I can repeat these with absolute assurance that it is true.Philippians 2:6
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to deathJohn 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, BEFORE all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.1 John 1:2
2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to usJohn 1:2–3
2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.John 8:23
But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.You see. We can repeat these in public and teach them with no problem. Whereas, we never hear you utter these because you are opposed to these truths. You have to cleverly devise your words when speaking here, whereas we are free as children to repeat these.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,16:35) T, Quote what is his spirit It is the Spirit of God as a man has a spirit. It is also Jehovah's creative force. In addition it teaches and trains in righteousness as well as correcting and rebuking.
Quote and how could a women be given birth only with one side of the the chromosomes??? because there was no man involved right By a miracle of Jehovah.
Quote and expression that all good things come from above ,does not cut it ,this is related to the actions that the disciples were teaching ACT HAS YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN . Are you claiming the Spirit does not come from above.
kQuote It is the Spirit of God as a man has a spirit. It is also Jehovah's creative force. In addition it teaches and trains in righteousness as well as correcting and rebuking. The spirit of God ” his of God ” the spirit of men his of men to do or not to do ;
so it seems that you understand that a spirit is related to a being
because a spirit is either good or bad and so actif,the bad and good is teached to men ,what men takes good or bad is related to his heart,mind and actions,
and those actions of his prove who he his inside his soul.
Quote Quote and how could a women be given birth only with one side of the the chromosomes??? because there was no man involved right By a miracle of Jehovah.
you say by a miracle !!!!!! and tell me that miracle could not be the transformation of his son in flesh by using just a women
????Quote Quote and we know God stopped creating on the six day after he made Eve. He continued to do wonders.
BUT EVERY TIME WE LOOK AT CREATION TO HEAVEN AND GALAXY IT IS A WONDER ,EACH TIME I GET UP IN THE MORNING TO ME IT IS A WONDER TO ME AND THANK MY GOD FOR IT ,EVERY BABY BORN HIS A WONDER ,AND MORE …
Quote Are you claiming the Spirit does not come from above. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS;ALL SPIRITS ARE NOT FROM GOD AND WHAT KIND OF SPIRIT DO YOU THINK OF
KNOWING THAT YOU PLAY GAMEST8,
I have no problem repeating those or other passages of Scripture as those that hunger and thirst for righteousness will come to understand them correctly.
I also know the Evil One uses our lack of knowledge of Jehovah to lead us astray.
Seek instead to have the same mind as Christ who existing in the image of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to Jehovah, but made himself nothing, taking on the very image of a servant.
Angels were created and exist in the image of Jehovah and a servant and so anyone who believes that will not see the Christ as an angel.
Of course my view allows for a righteous being of any kind as it is describing the mindset of Christ.
Spiritually Jesus comes from above since his Spirit does. Those that believe that the Spirit comes from above and that Jesus walks by it also believe he comes from above.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 14 2012,05:45) Spiritually Jesus comes from above since his Spirit does. Those that believe that the Spirit comes from above and that Jesus walks by it also believe he comes from above.
Kerwin……..This is true Jesus “was from above in a “SPIRITUAL” sense” . His mindset was not on things of this world but thing from above where God Dwells. He was brought into existence at the proper time he was prophesied to, a pure human Being to fulfill the plan and will of God in mankind a man from mankind for mankind a “SON OF MAN” just as he said he was over and over again in scriptures. He identified himself a 100% pure human , he never said he was alive as a Sentinel being before his berth ever. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………………………gene
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 14 2012,20:26) k ?
T,There is not much to say about your speculation as I am not sure what evidence you have that a spirit body was changed into a human body.
I do know that some modern teachings claim the spiritual bodies are composed of ectoplasm. I disagree as a ghost, which is said to have an ectoplasm body, is a soul and souls are not composed of any matter.
God will not transform soul material into flesh and blood as that is taking away from the individuals essence. All souls come from Jehovah and are placed in material bodies; as there are no ectoplasm bodies in Scripture.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 14 2012,21:16) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 14 2012,05:45) Spiritually Jesus comes from above since his Spirit does. Those that believe that the Spirit comes from above and that Jesus walks by it also believe he comes from above.
Kerwin……..This is true Jesus “was from above in a “SPIRITUAL” sense” . His mindset was not on things of this world but thing from above where God Dwells. He was brought into existence at the proper time he was prophesied to, a pure human Being to fulfill the plan and will of God in mankind a man from mankind for mankind a “SON OF MAN” just as he said he was over and over again in scriptures. He identified himself a 100% pure human , he never said he was alive as a Sentinel being before his berth ever. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………………………gene
Gene,I agree with what you say here.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2012,16:24) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 14 2012,20:26) k ?
T,There is not much to say about your speculation as I am not sure what evidence you have that a spirit body was changed into a human body.
I do know that some modern teachings claim the spiritual bodies are composed of ectoplasm. I disagree as a ghost, which is said to have an ectoplasm body, is a soul and souls are not composed of any matter.
God will not transform soul material into flesh and blood as that is taking away from the individuals essence. All souls come from Jehovah and are placed in material bodies; as there are no ectoplasm bodies in Scripture.
kQuote God will not transform soul material into flesh and blood as that is taking away from the individuals essence. All souls come from Jehovah and are placed in material bodies; as there are no ectoplasm bodies in Scripture. I never say this to you or any one
WHO ARE YOU TO COMMENT ON WHAT GOD DOES OR DOES NOT QUESTION IS CHRIST HIS SON OR NOT AND PAUL IN COL 1 ;15-21 DOES NOT MEAN WHAT IT SAYS BUT WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND IT SAYS RIGHT
SO PAUL IS A LIAR OR A DECEIVER;1Th 2:3 For the appeal we make does not spring from error or impure motives, nor are we trying to trick you.
1Th 2:4 On the contrary, we speak as men approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel. We are not trying to please men but God, who tests our hearts.BUT YOU TRY TO TRUCK ME IN BELIEVING WHAT SCRIPTURES DO NOT SAY,
YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA PREVENT YOU TO BE TRUE ,
T,
You already believe things Scripture does not say, as you speak of a “ectoplasmic” body which is not taught in Scripture.
I can confidently attest that Jehovah does not transform:
1} Soul to flesh
2} Spirit to flesh
As doing so would be evil and he does not do evil.You speculate that the Son had an “ectoplasmic” body, as opposed to being a naked soul, and that this ectoplasmic body transformed into a human body. In addition you speculate that his hypothetical angel soul also transformed to a human soul. None of this is explicitly written in Scripture.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2012,19:53) T, You already believe things Scripture does not say, as you speak of a “ectoplasmic” body which is not taught in Scripture.
I can confidently attest that Jehovah does not transform:
1} Soul to flesh
2} Spirit to flesh
As doing so would be evil and he does not do evil.You speculate that the Son had an “ectoplasmic” body, as opposed to being a naked soul, and that this ectoplasmic body transformed into a human body. In addition you speculate that his hypothetical angel soul also transformed to a human soul. None of this is explicitly written in Scripture.
kflesh his a coat ,a garment for the soul of men ,
spirit body his the cloth that spirit souls wearing ,
get out of your confusion ,
“ectoplasmic”?ec·to·plasm (kt-plzm)
n.
1. Biology The outer portion of the continuous phase of cytoplasm of a cell, sometimes distinguishable as a somewhat rigid, gelled layer beneath the cell membrane.
2.
a. The visible substance believed to emanate from the body of a spiritualistic medium during communication with the dead.
b. An immaterial or ethereal substance, especially the transparent corporeal presence of a spirit or ghost.YOU ARE GOING TO MEDIUMS
I DO NOT .THIS IS NOT WHAT I BELIEVE ,YOU WRONG ,YOUR MEN MADE AGENDA IS FORCING YOU NOT TO SEE
WOW, I have been off here for 6 months and the same arguments by the same people continue. What is the fruit of that? How does that help me become like Christ?
Quote (clyde @ Nov. 01 2012,01:24) WOW, I have been off here for 6 months and the same arguments by the same people continue. What is the fruit of that? How does that help me become like Christ?
]hi clydewell it could help and could not help you, it depend on what you have in your heart,
it is the scriptures that we all should follow,now if you have some question for us pick the topic accordingly,
and stand has a man if you are one ,
Quote (clyde @ Nov. 01 2012,06:24) WOW, I have been off here for 6 months and the same arguments by the same people continue. What is the fruit of that? How does that help me become like Christ?
clyde……….I know your concern, but also remember Jesus told us to have SALT in our selves also and maintain Peace. To me the subject of Jesus Preexistence is a HUGE Problem in Christradom. It severs to separate Jesus idenity with all us Human beings and moves him away from our exactness it gives him advantages he simply did not have over us, it say we can not be truly his brothers and sisters becaues he was not truly like us in every way.It speaks volumes against God's work in humanity, and not only God's work But Jesus' Work as a simple ordinary Human Being also. He is the “example” for all Humans Beings Perfect by God to a place of Honor and Glory and a resurection to eternal life which we all can come to . Just as it say “untill we all come unto the “FULL” Measure of Christ Jesus.
Clyde this to me is a very serious question with serious consequences, and that is why i continue to Speak against this false teaching. I have a great Passion about it, so i continue to ingage in it.
Sorry for the bad effect it has on you brother it alway bothers me to see people become discouraged by these back and forth debates. You can start other descusson by starting new topics we can engage in with you brother.
Being Christ like is to except and do what he said, and that is all written in scriptures for us all to see and read. No scripture say we are not to debate a false teaching I think it is required of us brother at times.
Again i am sorry if i had anything in discouraging you brother it is n ot my desire to do that brother.
peace and lvoe to you and yours Clyde………………………gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
