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Hi MB,
He is said by scripture to be a MAN, and to the the Great Prophet[acts3] and they are human messengers.[Mal2]
So why would you say he or any other prophet was an angel?
Do angels become men or prophets?These questions have been addressed in the Hot Seat thread t8 started. I won't have the same discussion in three theads at the same time, Nick.
The word “angel” does not exist in any Greek or Hebrew text, Nick. The Hebrew word “malak” and the Greek word “aggelos” both mean “messenger”.
Hi mb,
AND DOES THAT MEAN YOU CAN DECIDE WHO IS AN ANGEL AND WHO IS A MAN?Then tell us of Mal 2.7
Are priests angels or not?Nick,
Do you mean “Are priests MESSENGERS”? Yes they are. Aaron was a human messenger as priest, and Jesus is a spirit messenger as priest. So if you want to call spirit messengers “angels”, then Jesus IS one, and Aaron wasn't.
Hi MB,
What about the prophet John the baptist?
So what about the man[acts2] who is the GREAT PROPHET[acts3]John was a human messenger.
Jesus has been a messenger of God in both human and spirit form. I believe the word “prophet” only applies to when he was in human form.
Hi Mike:
Philippians 2:6
Quote l 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: “Form of God” = Morphe in Greek:
definition:
1) the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision
2) external appearance
If this referred to Jesus in some pre-existent state how do you make this definition fit?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2012,13:29) Hi mb,
AND DOES THAT MEAN YOU CAN DECIDE WHO IS AN ANGEL AND WHO IS A MAN?Then tell us of Mal 2.7
Are priests angels or not?
The context will usually determine which Nick. But that is not always the case either.Just like the word “theos”, context is everything.
Quote (942767 @ June 25 2012,17:35) Hi Mike: Philippians 2:6
Quote l 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: “Form of God” = Morphe in Greek:
definition:
1) the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision
2) external appearance
If this referred to Jesus in some pre-existent state how do you make this definition fit?
Love in Christ,
Marty
I guess you need to ask yourself what form is God.
If you think spirit, then that opens up a huge possibility.
God is the Father of spirits. Even heavenly angels are spirits.Quote (t8 @ June 25 2012,16:43) Quote (942767 @ June 25 2012,17:35) Hi Mike: Philippians 2:6
Quote l 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: “Form of God” = Morphe in Greek:
definition:
1) the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision
2) external appearance
If this referred to Jesus in some pre-existent state how do you make this definition fit?
Love in Christ,
Marty
I guess you need to ask yourself what form is God.
If you think spirit, then that opens up a huge possibility.
God is the Father of spirits. Even heavenly angels are spirits.
Hi t8:Can you see a spirit?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ June 26 2012,00:23) Quote (t8 @ June 25 2012,16:43) Quote (942767 @ June 25 2012,17:35) Hi Mike: Philippians 2:6
Quote l 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: “Form of God” = Morphe in Greek:
definition:
1) the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision
2) external appearance
If this referred to Jesus in some pre-existent state how do you make this definition fit?
Love in Christ,
Marty
I guess you need to ask yourself what form is God.
If you think spirit, then that opens up a huge possibility.
God is the Father of spirits. Even heavenly angels are spirits.
Hi t8:Can you see a spirit?
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767.Yes you can if they materialise.
Four examples: Daniel saw Gabriel in several occasions.
Abraham saw 2 angels,and one is the lord himself.
Jesus saw satan in the desert.
Jesus met the apostles,after his resurrection.wakeup.
wup
Quote Yes you can if they materialise.
Four examples: Daniel saw Gabriel in several occasions.
Abraham saw 2 angels,and one is the lord himself.
Jesus saw satan in the desert.
Jesus met the apostles,after his resurrection.wakeup.
what is the NATURE OF THE SPIRIT BEINGS
AND IF SPIRIT WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SEEING WHEN THEY MATERIALIZE Hi Marty,
I think you're focusing on the wrong point here. You must first decide how God could have had an “outward appearence” in the first place, so that Jesus could be existing in that same form.
I personally believe that God, like all spirit beings, has a spiritual body which can be seen by other spirit beings.
The eyes of human beings can't usually see these spirit beings, but on occasion, God will “open the eyes” of a flesh being, allowing him to see into the spirit realm. Balaam and the donkey is one instance where this is recorded. Elisha and his servant and the chariots of fire is another.
Notice how in both cases, one was able to see the spirits, while the other was not…………….. UNTIL God also opened their eyes to see them. In other words, those spirits didn't “materialize” two different times. Instead, they were already there, and God opened the eyes of the donkey and Elisha BEFORE He opened the eyes of Balaam and Elisha's servant.
Anyway, I don't see how you're implying a non-preexistent Jesus from the words of Phil 2:6. I understand it as Jesus was existing in a spirit form, just as his God always does. He then emptied himself and was made into a human being.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 26 2012,10:13) Hi Marty, I think you're focusing on the wrong point here. You must first decide how God could have had an “outward appearence” in the first place, so that Jesus could be existing in that same form.
I personally believe that God, like all spirit beings, has a spiritual body which can be seen by other spirit beings.
The eyes of human beings can't usually see these spirit beings, but on occasion, God will “open the eyes” of a flesh being, allowing him to see into the spirit realm. Balaam and the donkey is one instance where this is recorded. Elisha and his servant and the chariots of fire is another.
Notice how in both cases, one was able to see the spirits, while the other was not…………….. UNTIL God also opened their eyes to see them. In other words, those spirits didn't “materialize” two different times. Instead, they were already there, and God opened the eyes of the donkey and Elisha BEFORE He opened the eyes of Balaam and Elisha's servant.
Anyway, I don't see how you're implying a non-preexistent Jesus from the words of Phil 2:6. I understand it as Jesus was existing in a spirit form, just as his God always does. He then emptied himself and was made into a human being.
Hi Mike and wakeup:I already know how we see God. Jesus stated:
Quote Jhn 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
And we can see God all around us through his creation, but the scripture states that he himself is invisible, which means you cannot see him with the eye.
Quote 1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. And so, that is the whole point, the Greek word, morphe indicates that this is visible to the eye. If he pre-existed as a spirit, you could not see him in this form unless he did have a body, as you want to speculate, but this is speculation. And you can believe whatever you want, but if you cannot support it with scripture, you will never convince anyone of this.
And John 14 states how we have seen this. “He who has seen me has seen the Father”.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty,
How did we see Jesus “in the form of God” unless God Himself has an “outward appearence”?
The words “form OF God” mean that God Himself DOES have a form (outward appearence), right?
If God doesn't have a form, then there is no way Jesus could have been existing in the “form of God”, ie: “God's form”.
What say you?
Quote (942767 @ June 27 2012,14:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 26 2012,10:13) Hi Marty, I think you're focusing on the wrong point here. You must first decide how God could have had an “outward appearence” in the first place, so that Jesus could be existing in that same form.
I personally believe that God, like all spirit beings, has a spiritual body which can be seen by other spirit beings.
The eyes of human beings can't usually see these spirit beings, but on occasion, God will “open the eyes” of a flesh being, allowing him to see into the spirit realm. Balaam and the donkey is one instance where this is recorded. Elisha and his servant and the chariots of fire is another.
Notice how in both cases, one was able to see the spirits, while the other was not…………….. UNTIL God also opened their eyes to see them. In other words, those spirits didn't “materialize” two different times. Instead, they were already there, and God opened the eyes of the donkey and Elisha BEFORE He opened the eyes of Balaam and Elisha's servant.
Anyway, I don't see how you're implying a non-preexistent Jesus from the words of Phil 2:6. I understand it as Jesus was existing in a spirit form, just as his God always does. He then emptied himself and was made into a human being.
Hi Mike and wakeup:I already know how we see God. Jesus stated:
Quote Jhn 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
And we can see God all around us through his creation, but the scripture states that he himself is invisible, which means you cannot see him with the eye.
Quote 1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. And so, that is the whole point, the Greek word, morphe indicates that this is visible to the eye. If he pre-existed as a spirit, you could not see him in this form unless he did have a body, as you want to speculate, but this is speculation. And you can believe whatever you want, but if you cannot support it with scripture, you will never convince anyone of this.
And John 14 states how we have seen this. “He who has seen me has seen the Father”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyOur eyes can not see 90% of what could visible to us , it is because our high tech machine that we can see deeper and listen to sounds that are not available to our ears,
So. In this view what is the meaning of Christ words when he said wen you see me you have see the father
in witch way would their be a resemblance between Christ and his father
So that we ,men can see him ,what we can not see and live ?Quote (942767 @ June 26 2012,03:23) Hi t8: Can you see a spirit?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Yes spirits who have spirit bodies can indeed be seen.Angels were often seen and even in Heavenly glory where prophets could only fall on their face at the glorious sight.
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