Preexistence

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2012,20:57)

Hi MB, You never seem to be interested in anything except changing the perceptions of others. Tradition rules?

Nick,

I am quite confident that John was telling us that Jesus, who we know is called by the title “the Word of God”, was with God in the beginning, and was himself a god (the “only begotten god” to be specific). Then he became flesh, and dwelled on earth among mankind with the glory of God's only begotten Son. This is because he was God's only begotten Son even before God sent him into the world.

But many good Christians have been blinded by the faulty Trinitarian translation of John 1:1c. This has been going on for years. In fact, John 1:1c is always the first scripture quoted by Trinitarians when I ask them how the Son of God can be the God he is the Son of.

I believe it's sad that so many Christians just blindly follow this flawed translation, and as a result, end up worshipping the creation rather than the Creator.

So yes, I try hard to educate people like that about the THREE different possibilities of 1:1c, so they can then make a logical and informed decision for themselves, instead of blindly following what they think is the ONLY way 1:1c can possibly be translated.

And in doing that, I am actually bucking AGAINST tradition. It seems that in the case of 1:1c, it is YOU who is ruled by tradition – not me.

Nick, do you understand that John 1:1c can be faithfully translated three different ways? YES or NO?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 07 2012,21:40)

John 1:1 is about the HolySpirit: who is God, was God, and will always be God.

Hi Ed,

That would mean God Almighty Himself became flesh, had the glory of His own Son, and died at the hands of human beings.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ June 09 2012,10:56)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 07 2012,14:14) Quote (t8 @ June 06 2012,17:27) That is fine Mike. If a man cannot answer the question, then that usually demonstrates to all that he has a problem with his view and is too proud to admit it. t8, What was the question?   Questionssssss. God made the world through Jesus Christ did he not? You disagree with scripture. Try that one for a start. And a copy and paste is not an answer. If you understand the truth you should be able to express that truth in a manner that a child could understand. Thanks for asking what question.

t8,

No, Yahweh made the world BECAUSE OF or ON ACCOUNT OF Yahshua Messiah:

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ June 09 2012,10:53)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,13:24) Quote (t8 @ June 06 2012,00:27) That is fine Mike. If a man cannot answer the question, then that usually demonstrates to all that he has a problem with his view and is too proud to admit it. Yeah t8, Frank does this all the time – as you well know.  He refers to not answering my questions as “owning me” for some reason.   Maybe in his own head he thinks he is superior or is the one who is right. But to me, avoidance means you are hiding something. I respect an honest person who is able to answer any question even if it is, “I don't know”. Such a person is more likely to arrive at the truth in matters because their heart is good.

t8,

It is Father Yahweh Who is superior and Who is right, not I!

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (t8 @ June 09 2012,10:53)

I respect an honest person who is able to answer any question even if it is, “I don't know”. Such a person is more likely to arrive at the truth in matters because their heart is good.

T8……….Tell us do you do that also. Or is it just “others “need to? in order to just accept your teachings. Maybe we all need to consider more what other are saying at times Brother.

peace and love brother…………………………………..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2012,11:28)

So yes, I try hard to educate people like that about the THREE different possibilities of 1:1c, so they can then make a logical and informed decision for themselves, instead of blindly following what they think is the ONLY way 1:1c can possibly be translated.

Mike…………You say there are “THREE” different “POSSIBILITIES” So that mean you are not really sure your is the right one right?

peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

It's not ME who says it, Gene.  It is the experts in Greek to English translation who say it.  And most of the experts that say it are Trinitarians who would like nothing better than there to be only ONE possible translation.  But, unfortunately for them and their “the Son of God is the God he is the Son of” mentality, the fact remains that there ARE three possibilities.

Now Gene, have I successfully taught you this fact yet?  Or did you already know it?

[Ed J]

Quote (t8 @ June 09 2012,10:58)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2012,15:28) Hi MB, You do not yet have the spiritual truth and show no interest in learning about it. I disagree with your assessment here Nick. I trust that Mike would believe the truth if you could clearly show it from scripture. Only a fool would disagree with scripture itself and I have not seen Mike do this yet.

Hi T8, how about this verse for example?

“Ye are even my witnesses.
Is there 'a God' beside me? yea,
there is 'no God'; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2012,11:28)

Nick, do you understand that John 1:1c can be faithfully translated three different ways?  YES or NO?

No Mike,

For something to be “faithfully translated” it cannot be translated to something different.

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2012,11:33)

Quote (Ed J @ June 07 2012,21:40) John 1:1 is about the HolySpirit: who is God, was God, and will always be God. Hi Ed, That would mean God Almighty Himself became flesh, had the glory of His own Son, and died at the hands of human beings.

Hi Mike,

That would mean God's spirit became flesh, had the glory as of the only begotten of the Father. (see Acts 10:18)

1 Cor 14:36 What? came “The Word” of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2012,11:09)

Quote (t8 @ June 09 2012,10:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2012,15:28) Hi MB, You do not yet have the spiritual truth and show no interest in learning about it. I disagree with your assessment here Nick. I trust that Mike would believe the truth if you could clearly show it from scripture. Only a fool would disagree with scripture itself and I have not seen Mike do this yet. Hi T8, how about this verse for example? “Ye are even my witnesses. Is there 'a God' beside me? yea, there is 'no God'; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) God bless Ed J

Actually Ed, AS WE'VE JUST DISCUSSED ONCE AGAIN AT LENGTH IN ANOTHER THREAD, Jehovah said, “Ye are even my witnesses.
Is there a elohim beside me? yea,
there is no elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)

Yet YOUR OWN WORDS were, “Mike, there ARE other eloheems”, right Ed?

Hmmmm…….. How will you solve the dilemma in which you've found yourself?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2012,11:19)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2012,11:28)    Nick, do you understand that John 1:1c can be faithfully translated three different ways?  YES or NO?   No Mike, For something to be “faithfully translated” it cannot be translated to something different.

Good point Ed.

The first language into which the scriptures were translated, that used a definite article like English, was the Coptic language.

And in the Coptic language, John 1:1c says, “and the Word was a god“.

So it seems that the Trinitarians, in their great zeal to make Jesus actually BE the God he is the Son of, translated 1:1c to “something different”.  

Ed, have I now successfully taught you that 1:1c can be translated as “God” or “a god”?  Or did you already know this FACT of translation?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2012,11:23)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2012,11:33) Quote (Ed J @ June 07 2012,21:40) John 1:1 is about the HolySpirit: who is God, was God, and will always be God. Hi Ed, That would mean God Almighty Himself became flesh, had the glory of His own Son, and died at the hands of human beings. Hi Mike, That would mean God's spirit became flesh, had the glory as of the only begotten of the Father. (see Acts 10:18)

But you say that God IS His Holy Spirit, right? And if that is the case, then you are saying that God Himself became flesh and died at the hands of human beings.

Nor does your claim answer why God's Holy Spirit (which you insist is God Himself) would have the glory, not of God, but of God's Son.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2012,04:32)

Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2012,11:09) Quote (t8 @ June 09 2012,10:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2012,15:28) Hi MB, You do not yet have the spiritual truth and show no interest in learning about it. I disagree with your assessment here Nick. I trust that Mike would believe the truth if you could clearly show it from scripture. Only a fool would disagree with scripture itself and I have not seen Mike do this yet. Hi T8, how about this verse for example? “Ye are even my witnesses. Is there 'a God' beside me? yea, there is 'no God'; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) God bless Ed J Actually Ed, AS WE'VE JUST DISCUSSED ONCE AGAIN AT LENGTH IN ANOTHER THREAD, Jehovah said, “Ye are even my witnesses. Is there a elohim beside me? yea, there is no elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) Yet YOUR OWN WORDS were, “Mike, there ARE other eloheems”, right Ed? Hmmmm…….. How will you solve the dilemma in which you've found yourself?

No dilemma Mike,

Hebrew has no equivalent to the staunch meaning
attributed to the English word of God; ĔL-ō-Hêêm comes closest.

1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic),
or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate].

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

1 Corinthians 14
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

Ed, you have some strange ideas; like you being an alter and the AKJV being foretold in scripture.

But back to the point: If Jehovah said He is the only ELOHIM, and YOU say there ARE other ELOHIM, then how do you take “only Elohim” literally?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2012,04:37)

Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2012,11:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2012,11:28)    Nick, do you understand that John 1:1c can be faithfully translated three different ways?  YES or NO?   No Mike, For something to be “faithfully translated” it cannot be translated to something different. Good point Ed. The first language into which the scriptures were translated, that used a definite article like English, was the Coptic language. And in the Coptic language, John 1:1c says, “and the Word was a god“. So it seems that the Trinitarians, in their great zeal to make Jesus actually BE the God he is the Son of, translated 1:1c to “something different”.   Ed, have I now successfully taught you that 1:1c can be translated as “God” or “a god”?  Or did you already know this FACT of translation?

Hi Mike,

Would that be the Sahadic or the Bohairic Coptic?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2012,04:40)

Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2012,11:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2012,11:33) Quote (Ed J @ June 07 2012,21:40) John 1:1 is about the HolySpirit: who is God, was God, and will always be God. Hi Ed, That would mean God Almighty Himself became flesh, had the glory of His own Son, and died at the hands of human beings. Hi Mike, That would mean God's spirit became flesh, had the glory as of the only begotten of the Father. (see Acts 10:18) But you say that God IS His Holy Spirit, right?  And if that is the case, then you are saying that God Himself became flesh and died at the hands of human beings. Nor does your claim answer why God's Holy Spirit (which you insist is God Himself) would have the glory, not of God, but of God's Son.

Hi Mike,

When you body dies does your spirit die?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

I don't know, Ed.  What I know is that the very first time people had the opportunity to translate 1:1c as “a god”, they did so.

Ed, have I now successfully taught you that 1:1c can be translated as “God” or “a god”? Or did you already know this FACT of translation?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2012,12:33)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2012,04:40) Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2012,11:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2012,11:33) Quote (Ed J @ June 07 2012,21:40) John 1:1 is about the HolySpirit: who is God, was God, and will always be God. Hi Ed, That would mean God Almighty Himself became flesh, had the glory of His own Son, and died at the hands of human beings. Hi Mike, That would mean God's spirit became flesh, had the glory as of the only begotten of the Father. (see Acts 10:18) But you say that God IS His Holy Spirit, right?  And if that is the case, then you are saying that God Himself became flesh and died at the hands of human beings. Nor does your claim answer why God's Holy Spirit (which you insist is God Himself) would have the glory, not of God, but of God's Son.   Hi Mike, When you body dies does your spirit die? God bless Ed J

No Ed. The spirit goes back to God who gave it.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2012,05:31)

1 Corinthians 14 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. Ed, you have some strange ideas; like you being an alter and the AKJV being foretold in scripture. But back to the point:  If Jehovah said He is the only ELOHIM, and YOU say there ARE other ELOHIM, then how do you take “only Elohim” literally?

Hi Mike,

I explained why, but you do not accept my answer.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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