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THE TWO YAHWEHS DOCTRINE
GENESIS 19:24 – TWO YAHWEHS?
“Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD [out of heaven]” (Gen. 19:24, KJV).
The words in brackets, [out of heaven], are doubtful, indicated by the following witnesses:
“Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh” (Gen. 19:24, Jerusalem Bible).
Footnote: “f. Here a gloss adds ‘from heaven’”
Note: A gloss is a marginal comment which eventually shows up in the main text.
“Suddenly the LORD rained burning sulfur on the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and destroyed them…” (Gen. 19:24, Good News Bible).
As does the Good News Bible, the following version omit the second mention of Yahweh:
“And then the LORD rained down fire and brimstone from the skies on Sodom and Gomorrah” (Gen.19:24, The New English Bible).
“The LORD sent a rain of burning sulfur down from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah and destroyed those cities” (Gen. 19:24, The New Century Version, 1991).
“Then the LORD sent fire and flaming smoke raining down from heaven on Sodom and Gomorrah” (Gen. 19:24, The Bible In Basic English).
“… the LORD rained sulfur and fire from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah, devastating those cities …” (Gen. 19:24, Smith & Goodspeed Translation).
Conclusion
It is now apparent that we can not be justified in proclaiming two Yahwehs from the evidence given in Genesis 19:24.
TWO YAHWEHS IN ISAIAH 44:6?
Isa 44:6, “Thus saith Yahweh the King of Ysrael, and His redeemer Yahweh of host; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no Elohim.”
Notice that both the King and His Redeemer are speaking and they are both called Yahweh in this verse, thus showing two entities with the Name Yahweh. Also they are both called Elohim, – “beside me there is no Elohim”.
Voy Wilks’ Response Is As Follows:
Now to Isa. 44:6. Let me respectfully suggest, there is only one Yahweh spoken of here: the only Yahweh who exist (Deut. 4:35,39); Israel’s redeemer and king. Isa. 44:6 should be read in connection with the verses which follow. Notice the singular pronouns, I and Me (Verses 6, 7 and 8).
“I am the first and I am the last; beside me is no Elohim” (Isa. 44:6b). Elohim is singular for two reasons: (1) Scriptures tell us there is only one El, one Yahweh; and (2) because of the singular pronouns associated with Elohim.
“Is there and Eloah besides me? Yea, there is no God [tsur = Rock]; I know not any” (Isa.44:8b).
One Yahweh is speaking: “I”. This one Yahweh knew of no other Yahweh. Notice the message in the same chapter, Verse 24b:
“I am Yahweh that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; …”
Alone (#905) means “unaccompanied.” By myself means he did it alone, with no help from another.
Quick Summary Thus Far
· Yahweh is he Creator.
· Yahweh had no help in the creation.
· Yahweh did the creating alone.
· Yahweh knew of no other Yahweh.
· Yahweh is Israel’s king and redeemer
Other Versions
Much information can sometimes be obtained by comparing other versions [or “translation comparison”]. This is true when we consider Isa. 24:6a from several versions:
New American Bible “thus says Yahweh Israel’s King and redeemer …”
The Koster Bible “Thus says YHWH, Sovereign of Israel and his Redeemer; … (Israel’s redeemer).
Moffatt Translation “Here is the word of the Eternal, King of Israel, Israel’s deliverer, The Lord of host: …”
New International Version “This is what Yahweh says – your redeemer who formed you in the womb; …”
Jerusalem Bible “Thus say Israel’s king and redeemer, Yahweh Sabaoth; …”
A number of other versions agree, such as The New Wold Translation, The New Century Version, The Living Bible, The Emphasized Bible, The Good News Bible, and The Bible In Basic English.
Please keep in mind that all these translators accepted the Trinity or the Duality, therefore they accepted the pre-existence of Yahshua. Nevertheless, the translations noted above disagree with the doctrine of the Trinity and Duality.
I wish to call attention to personal pronouns in the Koster Bible. Most if not all personal pronouns which refer to Yahweh were capitalized by Mr. Koster. When we consult Isa. 44:6a, we notice that the pronoun his is not capitalized, indicating Mr. Koster realized his referred to Israel, not to Yahweh and not to a second Yahweh:
“Thus says YHWH, Sovereign of Israel, and his [Israel’s] Redeemer, YHWH of hosts,…”
Conclusion
Scriptures reveal there is only one true Yahweh, one true El, and one true Elohim. Even if there were two or three Yahwehs, Isa. 44:6 could not properly be used as evidence to support this view, since the Scripture indicates Yahweh is Israel’s king and redeemer, not Yahweh’s king and redeemer.
A better case for Two Parties (Yahweh and a helper) might be made by using Isa. 41:1 where some versions read, “I, Yahweh, the first and with the last; I am he.”
But again, the translators have this covered. Please see the paper, “The Pre-existence – Isa. 44:1.” Also, we have learned that Yahweh did the creating all [ALONE #905]. No one helped him (Isa. 44:24; 48:12-13, and many other Scriptures).
First Corinthians 8:6: “But TO US there is but one Eloah, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Savior Yahshua the Messiah, [for, because of, or on account of] whom are all things, and we by him (1 Cor. 8:6, Holy Name Bible). Eloah is recognized as singular, even by Dualist [The bracketed words were added by I, the webmaster. Please CLICK HERE for an in depth explanation of this].
Do you have another Scriptures on the pre-existence? If so, send them one by one for my personal study and consideration.
Thanks,
Voy Wilks
YAHSHUA: SON OF ELOHIM
By Voy Wilks
10/18/98
Peter’s Testimony
[Yahshua] said unto them, “But whom say thee that I am?” And Simon Peter answered, “Thou art the Messiah, the Son of the living God” (Mt. 16:15-16 KJV).
“Thou art the Messiah, the Son of the living Elohim” (Holy Name Bible).
“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living Elohim” (Bethel Edition).
“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living Elohim” (Koster Version).
“Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living Elohim” * (Hebrew/English New Testament, The Society For Distributing the Holy Scriptures to the Jews; One Rectory Lane, Edgware, Middlefax Has 7 LF, England).
Peter’s response clearly shows the living Elohim was not Yahshua. Elohim was the Father of Yahshua. This reveals that the title Elohim, and often does, refer to only ONE person; one individual; Yahweh the Father. In fact, Yahweh is the only true Elohim. All others are only idols. They are nothing, just as the apostle Paul wrote:
“… we know that an idol is nothing in the world, …” (1 Cor. 8:4).
Webmaster’s Note: cf. 1Chronicles 16:26.
Paul’s Testimony
“… we know …there is none other Elohim * but one. For though there be that are called elohim, … (as there are elohim many and lords many), BUT TO US there is but ONE Elohim, * the Father, of whom are
all things, and we in him; and one Savior Yahshua Messiah [because of] whom are all things and we in him” (1 Cor. 8:4-6 [bracketed words added by webmaster. See: http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html for reason.]). Consult also Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Tim. 2:5.The Apostle Paul promotes the same view: There is only one true Elohim; the Father. Yahshua is the Messiah, not the one true Elohim.
Conclusion
Theses Scriptures reveal that the title Elohim, although plural in term, is often employed to refer to one individual – Yahweh the Father, the Creator of all things in heaven and in earth (Neh. 9:6; Ps. 33:6-9 **). At least 50 Scriptures refer to Yahshua as the “Son of Elohim,” showing Elohim is only one person, one individual. This one person [individual] is Yahweh the Father, not Yahshua the Son.
* Please consult the reading in the four versions named above.
** See: Elohim: Singular Or Plural?
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Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 18 2012,12:40) Quick Summary Thus Far · Yahweh is he Creator.
· Yahweh had no help in the creation.
· Yahweh did the creating alone.
· Yahweh knew of no other Yahweh.
· Yahweh is Israel’s king and redeemer
OK, I actually read some of your cut and paste post and there was a good point there.However, the NT says that God made all things through Jesus Christ. This is what I believe and so should all who believe that God has a son and who believe in the testimony of the son.
Hi Frank,
Various translations are quoted but no reference to the manuscripts.
Are there manuscript variations there?Quote (t8 @ May 18 2012,09:43) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 18 2012,12:40) Quick Summary Thus Far · Yahweh is he Creator.
· Yahweh had no help in the creation.
· Yahweh did the creating alone.
· Yahweh knew of no other Yahweh.
· Yahweh is Israel’s king and redeemer
OK, I actually read some of your cut and paste post and there was a good point there.However, the NT says that God made all things through Jesus Christ. This is what I believe and so should all who believe that God has a son and who believe in the testimony of the son.
T8,No, the so-called “New Testament” says that Father Yahweh made all things “FOR, BECAUSE OF, or ON ACCOUNT OF” Yahshua Messiah, not “by” or “through” him.
The Words Translated As “By” Or “Through”
frank4yahweh.tripod.com/BYandTHROUGH.html…
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 17 2012,18:06) T8, No, the so-called “New Testament” says that Father Yahweh made all things “FOR, BECAUSE OF, or ON ACCOUNT OF” Yahshua Messiah, not “by” or “through” him.
I have heard this claim before, and I've always wondered in what way God made the dinosaurs “FOR, BECAUSE OF, or ON ACCOUNT OF” a human being who didn't even exist until thousands of years after they had become extinct.But how about in John 1:3, Frank? Does the NT tell us that Jehovah created all things “FOR, BECAUSE OF, or ON ACCOUNT OF” the Word?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2012,11:15) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 17 2012,18:06) T8, No, the so-called “New Testament” says that Father Yahweh made all things “FOR, BECAUSE OF, or ON ACCOUNT OF” Yahshua Messiah, not “by” or “through” him.
I have heard this claim before, and I've always wondered in what way God made the dinosaurs “FOR, BECAUSE OF, or ON ACCOUNT OF” a human being who didn't even exist until thousands of years after they had become extinct.But how about in John 1:3, Frank? Does the NT tell us that Jehovah created all things “FOR, BECAUSE OF, or ON ACCOUNT OF” the Word?
Mike,What is your question?
Quote (t8 @ May 18 2012,09:40) So Edj. If it is written that men and heavenly creatures can be angels, then it is so.
Hi T8,Of course.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2012,12:58) The part with a question mark at the end.
Mike,I am questioning that question. Your question certainly makes no sense to me!
Hmmmmmmmm………….
Frank, you claim that the word “dia” in Heb 1:2 means “FOR, BECAUSE OF, or ON ACCOUNT OF”, correct?
Well, the same word “dia” is used in John 1:3. So does John 1:3 teach that all things were made “FOR, BECAUSE OF, or ON ACCOUNT OF” the Word?
Mike………..Frank s right brother there is ONLY ONE GOD who CREATED all things alone and by himslef as to the reason why it was for Jesus and all who will inherited eternal life. This creation was made for Jesus and all who will inherit it> IMO
peace and love…………………………………………….gene
He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another. – Tertullian
Gene, do you see how God creating THROUGH Jesus doesn't change the fact that God alone did the creating? To believe the scriptures that God created all things THROUGH Jesus is not to discredit the scriptures that say God created all things by Himself.
For example, God alone and by Himself created YOU. But He did that THROUGH Jesus, Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, your grandparents, and your parents.
The fact that He created you THROUGH all those others does not change the fact that God alone is the One who created you.
To All,
“Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out;
he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath
unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: Thou sendest forth thy spirit,
they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.” (Isaiah 42:5 and Psalms 104:30)Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2012,13:38) Hi MB,
God created through His Spirit [ps104], the Spirit in Christ Jesus.
You mean the Spirit, that according to you, WAS God, but then BECAME Jesus Christ? How can you say “the Spirit in Christ Jesus” when you believe that Spirit actually became Christ Jesus?Hi MB,
You forget Jesus the man was a blessed vessel and still IS the Son of Man
and that the Spirit of Christ is OF and IN the Holy Spirit of God.I suppose I tend to “forget” the things that aren't actually taught in the scriptures, Nick.
But how does your response answer the two questions I asked of you?
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