Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Hi t,
Flesh?
It has no future

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 09 2012,13:42)

Hi t8, When you speak of Jesus Christ you speak of a man permanently united with the Spirit of God in a union closer than marriage.[eph5] God in his scriptures does not separate the man from the Spirit so when talking in retrospect it is perfectly apt to say JESUS CHRIST when it is the history of the anointing that is being spoken of. IMO

Scripture talks about him existing in the form of God and then being made in our likeness after emptying himself.

Surely it is the same Jesus no matter what nature he partakes of and similarly, we are invited to partake of divine nature and that is not meant to be taken that we become a different identity either.

The true person is not the nature of the person.

e.g., God is spirit but in identity he is the Father.

We may be flesh beings, but we are not the flesh itself, rather the flesh is but the vessel, the outward man.

Jesus is the same Jesus no matter whether he exists in the form of God or in the likeness of men.

And we are who we are no matter what body we shall inherit, we are still us when we have the promised glorified body.

I have lost count of the amount of times I have said this here, but if men knew the difference between identity and nature, then there would be no Trinity Doctrine and no need to debate many things that are debated here.

Because most confuse the difference, there are many years of useless debate left for people to engage in at which point I might as well throw up some ads in the forum and at least get some interest, rather than no benefit at all.

[Ed J]

Quote (Pastry @ May 09 2012,04:56)

Ed, The Holy Spirit does not have a rob on dipped in blood, only Jesus does…Irene

Hi Irene, “vesture” is clothing. I bet you've never done a comparative study between Rev.19 and Isaiah 63, have YOU Irene?

“And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.” (Rev 19:13)
“and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.” (Isaiah 63:3)

                      “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!    
                        And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !                
                 
Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood.
Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments

Revelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress
Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone

Rev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God.
Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit within

                     But they rebelled, and vexed
                     his HolySpirit: therefore he
                     was turned to be their enemy,
                     and he fought against them.

Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger  
          …and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,
                              that with it He should smite the nations.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi t8,
Is Jesus the Word of Jn 1?

[NickHassan]

Hi t8,
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever.
But Jesus was not always the Christ.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 09 2012,17:19)

Hi t8, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. But Jesus was not always the Christ.

T8……..What Nick has stated is right, Jesus was not always the Christ, he became at the Jordan river. Why is that so hard for you to understand brother.

You say if men could understand the difference between Identity and Nature there would be far less debate here and there would be no Trinity Doctrine , that is right and there would be no “PREEXISTENCE” Doctrine either. Fact is the Preexistence doctrine removes our Identity with Jesus just as much as the Trinity doctrine does. They are both teachings of “SEPARATION” of our Identity with Jesus as a Human being. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 10 2012,00:33)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 09 2012,17:19) Hi t8, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. But Jesus was not always the Christ. T8……..What Nick has stated is right, Jesus was not always the Christ, he became at the Jordan river. Why is that so hard for you to understand brother. peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

That “IS” what Scripture is saying! (Acts 10:38)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,11:05)

Mike, Since you believe that YOUR “Jesus” emptied himself of being “a god” and that this “Word” was “a god” in the beginning, then you must also believe that YOUR “Jesus” emptied himself of being the “Word”, right?

No Frank,

I believe that Jesus emptied himself of his existence IN THE FORM OF GOD – just like the scripture teaches. He instead began an existence IN THE FORM OF A HUMAN BEING for 33 years.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Was he still a lesser god?

[mikeboll64]

Well Nick, was he one to be revered, even as a human being? Was he the literal Son of the Almighty Creator of all things? Did he have the power to call 10,000 angels down to take his place?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Was that a yes?

Of course the chosen human servant vessel deserves all the honor that God has given him.

He is Lord of all and deserves our complete respect and utter obedience.

[mikeboll64]

YES, that was a “yes”.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
So this lesser god was able to do miracles because he was always a lesser god?

[mikeboll64]

God did miracles through him.  Just as God performed mighty deeds through Deborah, who was also called a god.

John 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be a god.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?

Jesus did not deny that by being the literal Son of God Almighty, he also was a god.  Instead, he pointed to lesser ones than he who were also called gods.

His point was:  If these lesser ones can be called gods, then what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
So how did God do work through a lesser god?

[mikeboll64]

Michael and Gabriel are also lesser gods – according to Biblical terminology. Are you implying that God is unable to do work through them?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 09 2012,20:54)

Hi MB, Do you really not know that Jesus of Nazareth was put to death?

Of course I know that, Nick. Here's what YOU apparently don't know:

Philippians 2
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,

Let's take this verse by verse.

5. “Christ JESUS” implies that Paul is speaking about the PERSON, Jesus, the anointed one of God.

6. Who was existing in the form of God? (The same Christ JESUS who was mentioned in verse 5, right?)

7. Who took on the form of a servant and was made in human likeness? (Was “the spirit of the anointing” actually made INTO a human being, Nick?)

8. Who was found in appearance as a human being? (The “spirit of the anointing”?)
Who humbled himself to the point of death on a cross? (The “spirit of the anointing”?)

9. Whom did God exalt, and to whom did He give the name above all other names?

Nick, this passage is all about the same person. If it was the PERSON Jesus Christ who died on a tree, then it was also the PERSON Jesus Christ who was existing in the form of God.

If it was the PERSON Jesus Christ who God exalted, then it was also the PERSON Jesus Christ who was made in human likeness.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
These lesser gods are angels.
Was your lesser god an angel?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Is this PERSON word used in scripture much or just in theology?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The WORD was God, not a lesser god or an angel

[Author]

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