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Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 05 2012,13:37) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2012,06:14) Hi Frank,
Jesus was no more empowered to do or know supernatural things than any natural man is, till he was anointed at the Jordan.
He showed us the way and it is not by might nor by power but by the Spirit.
He said we who are in him can do greater things.
One in Christ in God.It is all about the Spirit of God and not much about the vessel of man from beginning to end.
And this comes from someone who believes that Yahchanan 1:14 is speaking of Father Yahweh's word being “the only begotten”!
Frank,You are both right in this regard:
1. The one who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten WAS JESUS.2. The one who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten WAS THE WORD.
You are both right because the Word IS Jesus.
John 1
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”
The subject of verses 14 and 15 is “The Word”. Knowing this, we can say:
1. The Word became flesh.
2. The Word made his dwelling among us.
3. The Word had the glory of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
4. The Word is the one about whom John testified, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”
These are the grammatical facts of John 1:14-15.
Now Frank, you say it was JESUS who had the glory of God's only begotten Son, and you are right. But according to John 1:14-15, the one who had the glory of God's only begotten is the same one about whom John the Baptist said the words, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”
And the one about whom John the Baptist said these words is the same one who became flesh and dwelled on earth. And that one is called “the Word” in verse 14, and “Jesus” in verse 29.
Nick,
It's interesting that you use the words “lonely perspective”, but not “UNSCRIPTURAL perspective”.
It's more interesting to note that instead of trying to refute the scriptural facts I just laid out for you, you instead opt for your usual ad hominems.
Hmmmmm………..
Nick,
Did you not notice the CHALLENGE I threw at you in my last post? I CHALLENGED you to show us SCRIPTURALLY where my perspective is wrong. But you can't, can you? In fact, not one of you guys were able to do that when I made a bold-faced challenge to all of you a couple of weeks ago, right?
Tell me Nick, does John use the phrase “Jesus CHRIST” in 1 John 1:29? Or does he just say “JESUS”?
YOU can IMAGINE a difference between “Jesus” and “Jesus Christ” if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but Jesus of Nazareth was BORN the Christ of God.
(Of course, we know that you will now argue with scripture – as usual.)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2012,03:06) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 05 2012,13:37) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2012,06:14) Hi Frank,
Jesus was no more empowered to do or know supernatural things than any natural man is, till he was anointed at the Jordan.
He showed us the way and it is not by might nor by power but by the Spirit.
He said we who are in him can do greater things.
One in Christ in God.It is all about the Spirit of God and not much about the vessel of man from beginning to end.
And this comes from someone who believes that Yahchanan 1:14 is speaking of Father Yahweh's word being “the only begotten”!
Frank,You are both right in this regard:
1. The one who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten WAS JESUS.2. The one who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten WAS THE WORD.
You are both right because the Word IS Jesus.
John 1
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”
The subject of verses 14 and 15 is “The Word”. Knowing this, we can say:
1. The Word became flesh.
2. The Word made his dwelling among us.
3. The Word had the glory of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
4. The Word is the one about whom John testified, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”
These are the grammatical facts of John 1:14-15.
Now Frank, you say it was JESUS who had the glory of God's only begotten Son, and you are right. But according to John 1:14-15, the one who had the glory of God's only begotten is the same one about whom John the Baptist said the words, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”
And the one about whom John the Baptist said these words is the same one who became flesh and dwelled on earth. And that one is called “the Word” in verse 14, and “Jesus” in verse 29.
Mike,You are wrong! Yahshua was never “a god” or his and our Father Yahweh's word as a separate being apart from Him in the beginning. Yahshua was also never his and our Father Yahweh's word, but the spokesman of his and our Heavenly Father and Creator's word in this last time period.
Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Oh, I'm wrong?
Then address the 4 lines in my post and show me what the passage really says, Frank.
Because you just claiming over and over that Jesus didn't pre-exist is worth nothing to any serious Bible student. Show me the scripture that PROHIBITS the pre-existence of Jesus as a sentient being/entity.
If you'd like, while you're searching the scriptures for that ONE verse, I could re-post the more than 50 verses that say Jesus DID pre-exist.
Mike………The Logos was GOD and came to be (IN) the Flesh Man Jesus. “know you not that the FATHER is (IN) Me” and again, “the son of man can to “NOTHING” OF HIMSELF, THE FATHER WHO IS “IN” ME “HE” DOES THE WORKS”. Mike you simply have not come to see that God the Father was “TRULY” (IN) Jesus and speaking to us all through him. When are you going to believe what Jesus said , that the FATHER was Indeed (IN) HIM, why can't you understand that Brother? Thomas said MY Lord “AND” MY GOD, he was not referencing Jesus as a God but He came to see Gods very Presence (IN) Jesus so both Thomas Lord and his God was present.
Frank is presenting it right Mike.
peace and love………………………………………………..gene
Mike, I agree with you, why is it that you Nick and others can't read what it really says…
Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
These are two, not one….
then in verse 14 it brings it home
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory
as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.We should all know that Jehovah Go9d never became flesh, Jehovah God is not begotten of the Father,….That is who became Jesus….. adn He will come again as The Word of God..
Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
There is not another being in Heaven that fits this discription…only the man that was Jesus..
Peace Irene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 07 2012,08:24) Mike………The Logos was GOD and came to be (IN) the Flesh Man Jesus.
Yes Gene,I already know that you (and most of the others here like Ed, Nick, Kerwin and Frank) have to add the word “IN” into John 1:14 to make scripture form around your own doctrine.
But the word “IN” completely changes the context and the teaching, right? So do you think it's wise to add your own words into a scripture if those words are going to significantly alter the meaning of that scripture?
I don't.
peace,
mikeQuote (Pastry @ May 08 2012,08:54) Mike, I agree with you, why is it that you Nick and others can't read what it really says… Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
These are two, not one….
then in verse 14 it brings it home
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory
as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.We should all know that Jehovah Go9d never became flesh, Jehovah God is not begotten of the Father,….That is who became Jesus….. adn He will come again as The Word of God..
Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
There is not another being in Heaven that fits this discription…only the man that was Jesus..
Peace Irene
Hi Irene, (those are all references to the “HolySpirit”, as are these!)“For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God:
for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (1 Cor 14:2)“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness
unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Cor 2:14)“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on
in the world, received up into glory.” (1 Tim 3:16)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,11:03) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 07 2012,08:24) Mike………The Logos was GOD and came to be (IN) the Flesh Man Jesus.
Yes Gene,I already know that you (and most of the others here like Ed, Nick, Kerwin and Frank) have to add the word “IN” into John 1:14 to make scripture form around your own doctrine.
But the word “IN” completely changes the context and the teaching, right? So do you think it's wise to add your own words into a scripture if those words are going to significantly alter the meaning of that scripture?
I don't.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike,Is this verse speaking of something else? …if so what?
“God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us
The Word of reconciliation.” (2 Cor 5:19)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,11:05) Thanks Irene!
Hi Irene,Glad you're back!
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2012,06:55) Oh, I'm wrong? Then address the 4 lines in my post and show me what the passage really says, Frank.
Because you just claiming over and over that Jesus didn't pre-exist is worth nothing to any serious Bible student. Show me the scripture that PROHIBITS the pre-existence of Jesus as a sentient being/entity.
If you'd like, while you're searching the scriptures for that ONE verse, I could re-post the more than 50 verses that say Jesus DID pre-exist.
Mike,Yahshua had the same origin as all men. He was begotten or born of a woman. Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth and we also did not pre-exist our birth or our origin was not as pre-existent beings as “gods”.
Hi MB,
Is God not IN you?
Is Christ not IN you?If you do not have the Spirit of Christ you are none of his.
Quote (Ed J @ May 07 2012,18:53) Hi Mike, Is this verse speaking of something else? …if so what?
“God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us
The Word of reconciliation.” (2 Cor 5:19)God bless
Ed J
2 Cor 5 NIV
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.Yes Ed. That verse speaks of something other than the main spokesman for God who has the name “the Word of God”.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 07 2012,19:35) Mike, Yahshua had the same origin as all men.
Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth………….
You can keep claiming it until you're blue in the face, Frank. It won't change the fact that Jesus was existing in the form of God, having glory alongside God before the ages that were created through him began, and then emptied himself to be made in human likeness.
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