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Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 04 2012,15:24) I was not assuming that the word phrase “only begotten” was in reference to Yahshua, since the immediate context shows clearly that it is in fact in reference to him.
Frank,You are correct that this is easy to see – if one is not purposely pretending not to see it. (This is most likely why Nick will never admit to seeing it.)
But on that same thought, why is it that YOU can't see that the one who became flesh and had the glory of God's only begotten Son is called “the Word” in 1:14? In your own words, “the immediate context shows clearly that it is in fact in reference to him”.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2012,18:51) Hi MB,
It seems whenever your comfort zone is threatened you call out the artillery.
N
non senseQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2012,11:12) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 04 2012,15:24) I was not assuming that the word phrase “only begotten” was in reference to Yahshua, since the immediate context shows clearly that it is in fact in reference to him.
Frank,You are correct that this is easy to see – if one is not purposely pretending not to see it. (This is most likely why Nick will never admit to seeing it.)
But on that same thought, why is it that YOU can't see that the one who became flesh and had the glory of God's only begotten Son is called “the Word” in 1:14? In your own words, “the immediate context shows clearly that it is in fact in reference to him”.
Mike,In Yahchanan 1:14 it never makes mention that Yahshua is called [named or titled] “The Word of Yahweh”. This is done in Revelation and is prophetic of a future event.
Many read Revelation 19:13 and 1 Yahchanan 5:7-8 into Yahchanan 1:1-14, but Yahshua is not said to be named/titled “The Word of Yahweh” until his return in a prophet future event. And 1 Yahchanan 5:7-8 has added words that were not in the original text!
The future prophetic future event:
His eyes are a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems; and he has a name written on him which no one knows except himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and his name is called “The Word of Yahweh”. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following him on white horses (Revelation 19:12-14).
When Yahchanan 1:1-5,14 is understood in a TRUE Hebraic way, only then do these verses line up with what the Tanakh (Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament) has already established.
NOWHERE in the Scripture does it say that Yahweh will become flesh or some spirit being named “The Word of Yahweh”, nor does it say that His son pre-existed as some being named “The Word of Yahweh.” that was with Him in the beginning. The Scriptures always speak of the coming Messiah and servant of Yahweh to do His will and redeem man back to Him.
… (and we beheld his esteem, esteem as of the only begotten from the Father), full of favor and truth (Yahchanan 1:14).
When did Yahshua have ACTUAL esteem and when was he begotten from the Father? Remember this was written almost 60 years after the resurrection of the Messiah. Yahshua received ACTUAL esteem and was begotten of the Father after his death burial and resurrection (Lukyah 24:26, Revelation 5:11-13, Romans 1:1-4). The reason Yahchanan could say he beheld his esteem was because he saw Yahshua after his resurrection in his new esteemed body. Yahchanan could speak in the past tense because what he wrote concerning this is 60 years later. Yahshua did not have any esteem before his death, burial and resurrection, but only in his and our Father Yahweh's plan for the future. The word in Yahchanan 1:1 is in reference to Father Yahweh's word that most certainly proceeded from Yahshua mouth and the name/title “The Word of Yahweh” in Revelation is in reference to Father Yahweh's word proceeding from Yahshua's mouth again in the future. How many times must I tell you that I do not believe that Yahshua pre-existed as Father Yahweh's word as an actual being that existed with Him in the beginning?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 05 2012,13:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2012,11:12) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 04 2012,15:24) I was not assuming that the word phrase “only begotten” was in reference to Yahshua, since the immediate context shows clearly that it is in fact in reference to him.
Frank,You are correct that this is easy to see – if one is not purposely pretending not to see it. (This is most likely why Nick will never admit to seeing it.)
But on that same thought, why is it that YOU can't see that the one who became flesh and had the glory of God's only begotten Son is called “the Word” in 1:14? In your own words, “the immediate context shows clearly that it is in fact in reference to him”.
Mike,In Yahchanan 1:14 it never makes mention that Yahshua is called [named or titled] “The Word of Yahweh”. This is done in Revelation and is prophetic of a future event.
Many read Revelation 19:13 and 1 Yahchanan 5:7-8 into Yahchanan 1:1-14, but Yahshua is not said to be named/titled “The Word of Yahweh” until his return in a prophet future event. And 1 Yahchanan 5:7-8 has added words that were not in the original text!
The future prophetic future event:
His eyes are a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems; and he has a name written on him which no one knows except himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and his name is called “The Word of Yahweh”. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following him on white horses (Revelation 19:12-14).
When Yahchanan 1:1-5,14 is understood in a TRUE Hebraic way, only then do these verses line up with what the Tanakh (Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament) has already established.
NOWHERE in the Scripture does it say that Yahweh will become flesh or some spirit being named “The Word of Yahweh”, nor does it say that His son pre-existed as some being named “The Word of Yahweh.” that was with Him in the beginning. The Scriptures always speak of the coming Messiah and servant of Yahweh to do His will and redeem man back to Him.
… (and we beheld his esteem, esteem as of the only begotten from the Father), full of favor and truth (Yahchanan 1:14).
When did Yahshua have ACTUAL esteem and when was he begotten from the Father? Remember this was written almost 60 years after the resurrection of the Messiah. Yahshua received ACTUAL esteem and was begotten of the Father after his death burial and resurrection (Lukyah 24:26, Revelation 5:11-13, Romans 1:1-4). The reason Yahchanan could say he beheld his esteem was because he saw Yahshua after his resurrection in his new esteemed body. Yahchanan could speak in the past tense because what he wrote concerning this is 60 years later. Yahshua did not have any esteem before his death, burial and resurrection, but only in his and our Father Yahweh's plan for the future. The word in Yahchanan 1:1 is in reference to Father Yahweh's word that most certainly proceeded from Yahshua mouth and the name/title “The Word of Yahweh” in Revelation is in reference to Father Yahweh's word proceeding from Yahshua's mouth again in the future. How many times must I tell you that I do not believe that Yahshua pre-existed as Father Yahweh's word as an actual being that existed with Him in the beginning?
Mike,As to your saying “In your own words, “the immediate context shows clearly that it is in fact in reference to him”, I never said that the word 'word' in Yahchanan 1:1 was in reference to Yahshua, but have always stated that it is clearly in reference to Father Yahweh's word and not to His word as a being that existed with Him in the beginning. Father Yahweh's word became flesh or was manifest (MADE KNOWN or REVEALED) in the flesh THOUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua. Yahshua was not in ACTUALITY Father Yahweh's word, but he was the spokesman of His and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 04 2012,20:45) Father Yahweh's word became flesh or was manifest (MADE KNOWN or REVEALED) in the flesh THOUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua.
But can't you see the words you guys have to ADD to the scripture in order to fulfill your own doctrine?
Kerwin says the Word MARRIED flesh.
Gene and Nick say the Word came to be IN someone who was flesh.
And now you say the Word was made KNOWN IN the flesh.Frank, WHOEVER BECAME FLESH is the same one who had the glory of God's only begotten Son. So if it is JESUS who had the glory of God's only begotten Son, then it is JESUS who BECAME FLESH.
And THAT is what the context CLEARLY describes.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2012,21:57) Hi MB,
Jesus BECAME flesh??
John 1
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”
Work it backwards, Nick. WHO did John testify about in verse 15? Was it not JESUS? And was it not also the one who had the glory of the only begotten of the Father?
Okay, then who was the one who had the glory of the only begotten of the Father? Was it not JESUS? And was it not also the one who made his dwelling among us?
Okay, then who made his dwelling among us? Was it not JESUS? And was it not also the one who became flesh?
Okay, then who became flesh? Was it not JESUS? And was it not also the one who is known to John (the writer) as the Word of God?
Nick, if you follow the passage backwards from verse 15 to verse 14, you'll see that all the things said are said about the one we know as “JESUS”. Yet, at the beginning of verse 14, he is not called “Jesus”, but “the Word”.
In other words, the SUBJECT of ALL the words in verses 14 and 15 is “the Word”. And if you read John the Baptist's words about “the Word” in verse 15 in conjunction with verses 29-30, where those same exact words are said about “Jesus”, it should be clear that the name “the Word” and the name “Jesus” refer to the same person.
And if you STILL can't see that “Jesus” = “the Word” in this teaching, then most likely you are letting your own doctrine override the actual scriptures.
To All…………..God overshadowed Mary and created DNA in her EGG that he wanted so Jesus would look exactly as he described him through Issiah the Prophet, and the fetus grow in Mary for Nine months and then she brought fourth a man Child who was prophesied to be born FROM MANKIND , Jesus came into “EXISTENCE at the time of his berth on this earth. He grow up before GOD and gained favor with Man and GOD and at the age of around 29 he at the Jordan river recieved the Christos (HOLY SPIRIT) and was sent into the wilderness and tested by GOD and after that was sent out into the World to Preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of GOD. It is all Just that simple no need for any false Trinitarian and Preexistences teachings that make a MYSTERY RELIGION out of something that is Simple and Clearly spoken in scriptures.
Jesus never or ever Preexisted his berth on this earth He was only Prophesied by GOD and Prophets to come from Mankind as the seed of the women and then anointed as the Messiah of GOD. Simple straight forward no Mystery Religious teaching needed. My hope you that do understand this can stay clear form all these speculations and false teachers who twist the simple and plain word of God to there own destruction. They are false teachers and dreamers of all kind of false teachings having no the Spirit of Truth (IN) them or they could easily see the error of their teachings.
But thank be to GOD , Just as it says ” they would even fool the very elect “IF” it were POSSIBLE but all who have the Spirit of Truth (IN) them can see their false teaching of “SEPARATION of JESUS form our LIKENESS, they endlessly try with all their false teachings to separate Jesus for our EXACT IDENTITY as a PURE HUMAN BEING. These are cloud without water, wandering stars who's end is to be caught and destoryed having no knowledge of the “TRUTH” of GOD and His words. IMO
Be careful you are not entrapped by them or else you will be given a DELUDING SPIRIT as they HAVE and caught in the Same SNARE as they are. JESUS DID NOT EXIST BEFORE HIS BERTH ON THIS EARTH , EXCEPT IN THE PLAN AND WILL OF GOD All who teach differently are false teachers and have not the spirit of truth (IN) them
peace and love to all who do have God's Spirit of truth (IN) you……………………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2012,14:37) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 04 2012,20:45) Father Yahweh's word became flesh or was manifest (MADE KNOWN or REVEALED) in the flesh THOUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua.
But can't you see the words you guys have to ADD to the scripture in order to fulfill your own doctrine?Kerwin says the Word MARRIED flesh.
Gene and Nick say the Word came to be IN someone who was flesh.
And now you say the Word was made KNOWN IN the flesh.Frank, WHOEVER BECAME FLESH is the same one who had the glory of God's only begotten Son. So if it is JESUS who had the glory of God's only begotten Son, then it is JESUS who BECAME FLESH.
And THAT is what the context CLEARLY describes.
Mike,The reason you have no understanding of what Scripture actually says is because you have been brainwashed into foolishly, falsely and deceptively believing that Yahshua pre-existed as Father Yahweh's word as an actual being that existed with Him in the beginning. I most certainly did not ADD that Father Yahweh's word was manifest (MADE KNOWN OR REVEALED) in the flesh. Father Yahweh's word was manifested (MADE KNOWN or REVEALED) in the flesh of His son Yahshua. It was Yahshua who became flesh and revealed and made known his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period. This is what Scripture clearly teaches. I have never denied that Yahshua became flesh or came in the flesh.
You foolishly, falsely and deceptively believes that Yahshua emptied himself of being “a god” and that Father Yahweh's word was “a god” that pre-existed as His son Yahshua with Him in the beginning. If this were true, that Father Yahweh word was “a god” then in turn you believe that Yahshua emptied himself of his and our Father Yahweh's word.
This foolishness is not what the context clearly describes!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2012,14:57) Hi MB,
Jesus BECAME flesh??
Nick,Yes, Yahshua came in the flesh and became flesh by his birth.
For what the torah [instruction, law] of circumcision could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, Yahweh sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the torah [instruction, law] might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit (Romans 8:3-4).
For we are the circumcision, who worship Yahweh in the spirit, and rejoice in Messiah Yahshua, and have no confidence in the flesh (Philippians 3:3).
This is how you can recognize the spirit of Yahweh: Every spirit that acknowledges that Yahshua Messiah has come in the flesh is from Yahweh, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Yahshua is not from Yahweh. This is the spirit of the antimessiah, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. (1 Yahchanan [John] 4:2-3).
Since then the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage (Hebrews 2:14-15).
Father Yahweh's word was made flesh or manifest (MADE KNOWN or REVEALED) in the flesh THROUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua. This is why Yahshua said that he was the WAY and that no man comes unto the Father, but by him. Yahshua is our advocate, intercessor, mediator with his and our Father Yahweh and the spokesman of His word in this last time period.
In the past Yahweh spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in this last time period he has spoken to us by His son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and because of whom he made the universe (Hebrews 1:1-2).
My little children, these things write I unto you that yo may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Yahshua Messiah the righteous: And he is the atonement for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 Yahchanan [John] 1:1-2).
Who is he that condemns? It is Messiah that died, yes rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of Yahweh, who also makes intercession for us (Romans 8:34).
And to Yahshua the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaks better things than that of Abel (Hebrews 12:24).
Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Hi Frank,
Jesus was no more empowered to do or know supernatural things than any natural man is, till he was anointed at the Jordan.
He showed us the way and it is not by might nor by power but by the Spirit.
He said we who are in him can do greater things.
One in Christ in God.It is all about the Spirit of God and not much about the vessel of man from beginning to end.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2012,06:14) Hi Frank,
Jesus was no more empowered to do or know supernatural things than any natural man is, till he was anointed at the Jordan.
He showed us the way and it is not by might nor by power but by the Spirit.
He said we who are in him can do greater things.
One in Christ in God.It is all about the Spirit of God and not much about the vessel of man from beginning to end.
And this comes from someone who believes that Yahchanan 1:14 is speaking of Father Yahweh's word being “the only begotten”!Hi Frank,
Yes the WORD proceeded from and came from God.[Jn8 .42]
Unless you have the SPIRIT OF CHRIST you are none of his.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 05 2012,10:54) I most certainly did not ADD that Father Yahweh's word was manifest (MADE KNOWN OR REVEALED) in the flesh. Father Yahweh's word was manifested (MADE KNOWN or REVEALED) in the flesh of His son Yahshua.
But you ARE adding to the scripture, Frank!If the scripture says, “the Word BECAME flesh”, then whoever the Word was, he truly BECAME flesh, right?
My understanding is that the Word became flesh AS THE HUMAN BEING, JESUS CHRIST.
And it seems that YOUR understanding is that the Word came to be manifested or revealed IN the human being Jesus Christ.
Can you seriously not see the extra words you have to add to fulfill your personal understanding?
Can you seriously not see how adding the word “IN” changes the entire context of the teaching?
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