Preexistence

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,12:28)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2012,12:07) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 15 2012,17:18) Mike, How many times and in how many diverse ways does it have to be explained to you what it is that I believe in accordance with what is taught in Scripture? The MANY other so-called “mighty ones ['gods – elohim']” are most certainly FALSE mighty ones. Jesus is one of those called “god”, Frank.  Is your Lord a “false god”?  Or a “man-made idol”? There is NOT ONE MENTION of the phrases “so-called god” or “false god” in the whole of scripture, Frank.  These phrases were invented by translators trying hard to make scripture be about only ONE god, when MANY are clearly mentioned. Frank, when Jehovah is called “the God of gods”, who do you suppose these other gods are?  Do you suppose Jehovah is the God of “false gods” and “man-made idols”? Let the scriptures teach you, Frank, not the current understanding of the word “god” that most have today – an understanding that is anything but scriptural. Mike, You can follow those “of the world”, but I have been instructed to “come out from among them” and the be separate from those “of the world”.

Correction:

… and *to be separate from those “of the world”.

BTW Mike, the word “God” is a translation and as I have said many times on this forum, I am no mere “God” worshiper. I “worship” only Yahweh as our Heavenly Father Creator. It was Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” Who is the ONE and ONLY Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. His son Yahshua is never once recorded in YOUR so-called “New Testament” as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING, had a hand in creating, or proclaiming that he was with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning. Your worthless “BAAL Gods” did not create ANYTHING! YOUR worthless mere “BAAL gods/goddesses/idols” have no power whatsoever over me and YOUR “God Jesus” is nothing but a Latino illegal immigrant!

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

The BAAL Gad
The LORD God

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2012,12:47)

It is “those of the world” who insist upon there being LITERALLY only one god in existence.  But the God-inspired scriptures tell a different story, as they speak of MANY gods, both in heaven and on earth. So which one of us is really following scripture?  And which one of us is really following “those of the world” and their common understanding of the word “god”?

Mike,

It is “those of the world” who insist upon there being LITERALLY MANY gods in existence with MANY names, so it would be really you that is not following what Scripture ACTUALLY SAYS and you who is really following “those of the world” and their common understanding of the word “god”?

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

The BAAL Gad
The LORD God

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 15 2012,20:04)

BTW Mike, the word “God” is a translation and as I have said many times on this forum, I am no mere “God” worshiper. I “worship” only Yahweh as our Heavenly Father Creator. It was Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” Who is the ONE and ONLY Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. His son Yahshua is never once recorded in YOUR so-called “New Testament” as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING, had a hand in creating…………

I agree with everything in the quote box above, Frank. And if you are “no mere 'God' worshipper”, then it must be because you realize there are many gods, but we are to worship only One.

And that is all I'm pointing out to you.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2012,11:54)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,18:13) Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2012,10:43) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,17:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 15 2012,13:17) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 14 2012,19:40) Mike, Father Yahweh clearly says: “I am Yahweh, and there is no other; apart from [or beside] Me there is no Mighty One [“Elohim – God”]. And how do you explain the other elohim and theos mentioned in scripture, Frank? Do we pretend they don't exist?  Do we call them “false gods” and assume that Jehovah's title “The God of gods” means He's the God of “false gods” and “idols”? Or do we understand those verses the same way we understand Is 43:11 and 45:21, where we're told that Jehovah is the only savior even though we know He SENT other saviors? Frank, there is no denying that scripture says there are MANY gods, both in heaven and on earth.  There is also no denying that Jesus is one of these gods according to scripture. Mike, How many times and in how many diverse ways does it have to be explained to you what it is that I believe in accordance with what is taught in Scripture? The MANY other so-called “mighty ones ['gods – elohim']” are most certainly FALSE mighty ones. The expression “Mighty One ['God – Elohim'] of mighty ones ['gods – elohim']” designates Father Yahweh as the TRUE ALmighty One over and opposed to ALL other FALSE *so-called “mighty ones ['gods – elohim'] THAT ARE WORSHIPED by the nations ([heathen] Hebrew – goyim). These so-called “mighty ones ['gods – elohim']” *DO NOT TRULY EXIST, but only in the minds of mere men and are NOTHING (NON-EXISTENT). So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: WE KNOW that an idol is NOTHING at all in the world and that there is no Mighty One but ONE For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but ONE Mighty One, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Master, Yahshua Messiah, because of whom all things came and because of whom we live (1 Corinthians 8:4-6). Note that in the above verse Yahshua is not referred to as “Mighty One ['God, Elohim'].” We know that there is but ONLY ONE TRUE Mighty One and that is Father Yahweh. We also know that those idols that are called “mighty ones ['gods – elohim']” are FALSE and have no power (might strength ['god – elohim']) whatsoever and that they are NOTHING and NON-EXISTENT. Yahshua spoke these things; and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, the hour has come; esteem Your son, that the son may esteem You, even as You gave him authority [power, might] over all flesh, that to all whom You have given him, he may give eternal life. This is eternal life, that they may know You, the ONLY TRUE Mighty One ['God – Elohim'], and Yahshua Messiah whom You have sent (Yahchanan [John] 17:1-3). It doesn't get any clearer than that! Yahshua and Shaul both state that the Father and not His son Yahshua is the ONE TRUE Mighty One! A close reader will also notice that the ONE TRUE Mighty One Who is the Father, sent Yahshua!   For all the mighty ones ['gods – elohim'] of the nations are idols, but Yahweh made the heavens (1 Chronicles 16:26. I myself do deny Scripture LITERALLLY says “there are MANY gods, both in heaven and on earth.” The verse that you are referring to that says this is in reference to FALSE “mighty ones ['gods – elohim']” that are NOTHING (NON-EXISTENT) and have no power (authority, might, strength) whatsoever! YOU might believe that YOUR “Jesus” is one of these “mighty ones ['gods – elohim']”, but I certainly do not! I believe that Yahshua most certainly had power (authority, might, strength) as A MAN, but his source of power (authority, might, strength) as A MAN comes from his and our Father Yahweh the ONE and ONLY TRUE Mighty One Whom Yahshua clearly said GAVE him ALL power (authority, strength, might) as A MAN in heaven and in the earth. Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary on 1 Corinthians 8:5: 5. “For even supposing there are (exist) gods so called (2Th 2:4), whether in heaven (as the sun, moon, and stars) or in earth (as deified kings, beasts, &c.), as there be (a recognized fact, De 10:17; Ps 135:5; 136:2) gods many and lords many.” Angels and *men in authority are termed gods in Scripture, as exercising a divinely delegated power under God (compare Ex 22:9, with Ex 22:28; Ps 82:1, 6; Joh 10:34, 35). *My Note: Yahshua is a “man (son of man)” and not the Mighty One ['God – Elohim'] or “a mighty one ['god – elohim'].” The following study shows clearly that Yahshua was “a man” and still is “a man” or “son of man”: THE MAN, YAHSHUA Revised 3/12/12 Before his death, Yahshua was referred to as “man,” or “the son of man,” approximately 65 times as recorded in Scripture. He referred to himself as “the son of man.” Yahshua is also recorded on one occasion in translation of the so-called “New Testament” as referring to himself as “me, a man” (Yahchanan [John] 8:40). Scripture twice declares that FATHER Yahweh is not “a man” (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuyl 15:29). Not once is it ever recorded in ANY translation of the so-called “New Testament” as Yahshua the SON OF FATHER Yahweh giving reference to himself as “God” or “a god”. After his resurrection, even after he ascended into heaven, he was referred to as “man,” or “son of man,”  more than 30 times. Total equals more than 95 times. Before His Resurrection A man among men Matthew 8:20; 9:6; 10:23; 11:19; 12:8,32,40; 13:37,41; 16:13,27,28; 17:9,12,22; 18:11; 20:18,28; 25:13; 26:2,24,24,45 Mark 2:10,28; 8;31; 9:9,12,31; 10:33,45; 13:34; 14: 21,21,41 Luke 6:5,22; 7:34; 9:22,44,56,58; 11:30; 12:8,10; 17:22; 18:8,31; 19:10; 22:22,48; 24:7 John 1:51; 3:13,14; 5:27, 6:7,53,62; 8:28; 12:23,34,34; 13:31 Acts 2:22 After His Resurrection And at his second coming Dan.          7:13   – A man from heaven Mt.          19:28   – A man from heaven Mt.          24:7     – A man from heaven                   Mt.          24:30   – A man from heaven Mt.          24:37   – A man from heaven Mt.          24:39   – A man from heaven Mt.          24:44   – A man from heaven Mt.          25:13   – A man from heaven Mt.          25:31   – A man from heaven Mt.          26:64   – A man in heaven Mk.           8:38   – A man from heaven Mk.         13:26   – A man from heaven Mk.         14:62   – A man in heaven Lk.             9:26   – A man from heaven Lk.           12:40   – A man from heaven Lk.           17:24   – A man from heaven Lk.           17:26   – A man from heaven Lk.           17:30   – A man from heaven Lk.           21:27   – A man from heaven Lk.           21:36   – A man from heaven Lk.           22:69   – A man in heaven Jn.              1:51  – A man in heaven Jn.              3:14  – A man in heaven Acts          7:56  – A man in heaven Acts         17:31 – A man in heaven Rom.          5:15  – 1 Cor.        15:21 – 1 Cor.        15:47 – A man from heaven 1 Tim.         2:5    – A man, Yahshua Messiah Rev.           1:13  – A man in heaven Rev.          14:14 – A man in heaven Also see: [PDF] YESHUA THE PERFECT MAN LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE Genesis 1:26,27 By Voy Wilks 8/31/98 As to your questioning “… we know He SENT other saviors?”, I believe that Father Yahweh is our ONE and ONLY Supreme Redeemer and that one can be redeemed THROUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua in this last time period, since Yahshua clearly said that ALL power (authority) had been GIVEN to him in heaven and in the earth. This ALL power (authority) most certainly included the power (authority) to redeem mankind from sin and death. Note also that Father Yahweh said that there was no Redeemer beside Him in THE BEGINNING. This also points out to me that Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth as an actually being that was with Yahweh in the beginning. Yahshua came in the Name of His and our Father Yahweh in that his name Yahshua means 'Yahweh is Redeemer.' He came in the authority (power) of His Name to redeem mankind from sin and death. Yahshua most certainly can be referred to as our redeemer in this sense, but he LITERALLY is not our Supreme Redeemer. Redemption comes THROUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua in this last time period by the ultimate sacrifice that he made. This is why Yahshua said that he was “THE WAY.” Yahshua said that no man comes unto his and our Father Yahweh, but through (BY WAY OF) him. In fact, in Scripture it is clearly taught that Father Yahweh redeemed his son Yahshua from death and the grave and that He did not allow his body or soul to become corrupted or rot (Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:27,31). Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? … F your problem for me to understand you if you are telling the truth is that I do not believe you understand were you are in scriptures ,because if you would know ,you would be able to explain it in a condensate way and in harmony with the scriptures , so failing this is not trust worthy Pierre, It is certainly not my fault that you are illiterate in the English language. Since you have a problem understanding my post, I can only suggest that you simply do not read or respond to them. BTW, It is also quite difficult on many occasions in my understand what you are trying to say in your post, because of your illiteracy in the English language. About the only thing that I can understand in your post is when you disrespect and insult others here. F Christ could have save us from heaven but he came down ,out of love,but you would not even help a fellow men ,were is your love ? you understand my problem but you easily forget yours

Pierre,

Why on earth would anyone want YOUR “Christ” to (and I quote YOU) “save us from heaven”?  

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

The BAAL Gad
The LORD God

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2012,13:20)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 15 2012,20:04) BTW Mike, the word “God” is a translation and as I have said many times on this forum, I am no mere “God” worshiper. I “worship” only Yahweh as our Heavenly Father Creator. It was Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” Who is the ONE and ONLY Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. His son Yahshua is never once recorded in YOUR so-called “New Testament” as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING, had a hand in creating………… I agree with everything in the quote box above, Frank.  And if you are “no mere 'God' worshipper”, then it must be because you realize there are many gods, but we are to worship only One. And that is all I'm pointing out to you.

Mike,

I do not believe that “there many gods” that ACTUALLY exist as you do!  BTW, the point that you have mading on your head is waring out!

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

The BAAL Gad
The LORD God

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,13:33)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2012,13:20) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 15 2012,20:04) BTW Mike, the word “God” is a translation and as I have said many times on this forum, I am no mere “God” worshiper. I “worship” only Yahweh as our Heavenly Father Creator. It was Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” Who is the ONE and ONLY Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. His son Yahshua is never once recorded in YOUR so-called “New Testament” as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING, had a hand in creating………… I agree with everything in the quote box above, Frank.  And if you are “no mere 'God' worshipper”, then it must be because you realize there are many gods, but we are to worship only One. And that is all I'm pointing out to you. Mike, I do not believe that “there many gods” that ACTUALLY exist as you do!  BTW, the point that you have mading on your head is waring out! Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The BAAL Gad The LORD God

Correction:

BTW, the point that you have made on your head is *getting sharper!

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

The BAAL Gad
The LORD God

…

[terraricca]

f

Quote

Pierre, Why on earth would anyone want YOUR “Christ” to (and I quote YOU) “save us from heaven”? Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The BAAL Gad The LORD God

YES YOU ARE A WAITS OF TIME ,TO MUCH EGO

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca………..is that all you are good for is to be an ACCUSER of the BRETHREN? Sounds like someone else mentioned in scriptures right?

peace and love…………………………………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 17 2012,09:00)

Terricca………..is that all you are good for is to be an ACCUSER of the BRETHREN?  Sounds like someone else mentioned in scriptures right? peace and love…………………………………………………gene

g

my brothers are those who love Christ and so believe his words

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2012,15:05)

f Quote Pierre, Why on earth would anyone want YOUR “Christ” to (and I quote YOU) “save us from heaven”?   Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The BAAL Gad The LORD God YES YOU ARE A WAITS OF TIME ,TO MUCH EGO

Pierre,

I'll “WAITS” and “WAITS, and “WAITS” for your answer!

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

The BAAL Gad
The LORD God

…

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 17 2012,10:58)

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2012,15:05) f Quote Pierre, Why on earth would anyone want YOUR “Christ” to (and I quote YOU) “save us from heaven”?   Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The BAAL Gad The LORD God YES YOU ARE A WAITS OF TIME ,TO MUCH EGO Pierre, I'll “WAITS” and “WAITS, and “WAITS” for your answer!   Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The BAAL Gad The LORD God …

[Pastry]

Quote (charity @ April 10 2012,22:51)

smile, hi Gene!

Hi charity! Long time no see, so when you come back, hope you do, have a nice day……Peace and Love Irene

[Frank4YAHWEH]

THE PRE-EXISTENCE
1 Peter 1:11

6/25/97

“Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow” (1 Peter 1:11 KJV).

There is a least one other Scripture in which the translators add “Christ,” as if he were back there in ancient times, when Israel was in the wilderness:

“Neither let us tempt Christ as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Nether murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer” (1 Cor. 10:9-10).

When we go back to the historical record, we see it was the LORD (Yahweh) whom Israel tempted, not “Christ” (Ex. 1:1-7; Nu. 14:20-22, 16:41, 21:5-8; Ps. 95:9-10; Heb. 3:7-11). Several versions have made corrections in the text or in a footnote, such as the Revised Standard Version, Knox Ver4sion, New World Translation, and the Bethel Edition. Now back to 1 Peter 1:11.

In a footnote, the Diaglott indicates the Vatican Ms does not contain the words “the anointed;” that is, Christ Messiah. Agreeing with this are the following versions:

The Koster Version (Note: Mr. Koster believed in the pre-existence).
The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.
The New World Translation.
The James Duncan Version (1836).
The Geneva Bible of  1602 *

* The Geneva Bible give an uncertain reading, as follows:

“Searching when or what time the Spirit which testified before of Christ which was in them, should declare the sufferings that should come unto Christ, and the glory that should follow.”

Even though the second “which” is misplaced, the meaning is apparently this:

The Spirit which was in the prophets testified beforehand of (about) the suffering of the Messiah, and the glory that should follow (come to the Messiah at a later time).

It was not the Messiah which was in the prophets; instead, it was the Spirit [of Yahweh] which was in the prophets. This thought is born out by other Scriptures:

“Yahweh, who at sundry times and in diverse manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, …” (Heb. 1:1-2 KJV).

“But those things, which Yahweh before had showed by the mouth of all his prophets, that the Messiah should suffer, he has fulfilled” (Acts 3:18).

We see it was not the Messiah, but Yahweh, who revealed to the prophets the coming and sufferings of the Messiah. Isaiah 53 is a good example of his. This was spoken by the prophet Isaiah, by the Spirit of Yahweh (Isa. 53:1; Heb. 1:1). It was only later hat Yahweh spoke to us by his Son, Yahshua (Heb. 1:2).

Conclusion

Apparently, at an early time, someone added the word Christ to Peter's message in 1 Peter 1:11. This is indicated by several versions noted above. If this is correct, 1 Peter 1:11 does not indicate that Yahshua pre-existed.
SOURCE

…

[NickHassan]

Hi Frank,
Of course it was the anointing Spirit.
The Word that was God.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2012,13:39)

Hi Frank, Of course it was the anointing Spirit. The Word that was God.

Nick,

Who said it wasn't?

[GeneBalthrop]

Frank…………Good Post and Nick is in agreement with it brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Frank………………………………………………………….gene

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 03 2012,01:10)

Frank…………Good Post and Nick is in agreement with it brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours Frank………………………………………………………….gene

Gene,

No, Nick is not in agreement with my post, since he believes the word phrase “the only begotten” is in reference to Father Yahweh's word in Yahchanan [John] 1:14 and is not in reference to His son Yahshua. Note what he says on another thread in reference to my belief that the word phrase “the only begotten” in Yahchanan 1:14 is in reference to Yahshua:

Quote

Hi Frank, Yes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. But the verse in question does not have Son in it yet you can assume it should? Save your bile and be more accurate.

SOURCE OF QUOTE: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….y348527

I was not assuming that the word phrase “only begotten” was in reference to Yahshua, since the immediate context shows clearly that it is in fact in reference to him. From my experience with observing Nick's responses to other posts that I have made, his saying “Of course it was the anointing Spirit.
The Word that was God.” is simply his way of saying that he does not approve of my posting articles written by others as he has voiced his opposition in my doing so previously. In fact, what he said in response to my posting this article is not even said in the article.

[NickHassan]

Hi Frank,
Assumptions cost men dearly.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2012,09:05)

Hi Frank, Assumptions cost men dearly.

Nick,

Maybe you did not hear me the fist time? I was not assuming!

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 03 2012,01:10)

Frank…………Good Post and Nick is in agreement with it brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours Frank………………………………………………………….gene

Gene,

Maybe you would like to question Nick and ask him why he believes that Father Yahweh's word is “the only begotten” mentioned in Yahchanan 1:14?

[Author]

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