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Hi,
All those working in God's power and authority did so by anointing.
Kings, prophets, priests and judges all had a divine anointing
Judges even called in scripture “gods” because of this.But no man prior to Jesus of Nazareth was given the Spirit without measure.
He revealed God in all His nature and abilities to mankind.Sadly men focus on the blessed vessel and confuse the flesh with the anointing given him.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2012,17:21) Hi MB
Yes David, the king and prophet was anointed as in 1 Samuel 16:1313 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah.
Hmmmm……………So David was anointed by Samuel BEFORE he was anointed by Holy Spirit? Interesting……………
Hi MB,
Why are you surprised that David's anointing led to mighty works of God's Spirit through him?
The same happened with Jesus of Nazareth at the Jordan.Hi MB,
If Jesus had been anointed at or before birth no way could his life have been unremarkable till the Jordan.
The Spirit would have worked obviously through him from the time of the anointingThe God who can make children of Abraham from stones, or to make those stones cry out cannot be quenched in someone given the fullness of His Spirit.
Mike……….Also go read where Mosses was complaining to God about carrying the Isrealites as a women carrying a child, and see what happened, He told Moses to gather 70 men of Israel and bring them to the tent of the meetings and he would descend and Take of the Spirit he had put on Moses and also put (IT) upon them and they would help Him with that Spirit to Lead the Isrealites.
Mike, Nick is right about Jesus receiving his Anointing at the time he was Baptized By John at the Jordan river, even though he was already the “Prophesied” Messiah , but that anointing did not happen till it happened at the Jordan, and straight way lead him into the wilderness to be tested where he overcame himself and put his own will to death in service to God, and from there he was sent out into the world to proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom of GOD, but not before that took place. What does it say for the Law was Preached unto John and after that the Kingdom of GOD By Jesus the Anointed or Christ.
That same anointing (Christos) it was in Moses, Joshuah and in all the chosen leaders of GOD and in the Angels and this was what followed Israel in the wilderness and this same Spirit was also in Jesus the Christ and all the Saints of God.
peace and love…………………………………………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2012,17:44) Hi MB,
Why are you surprised that David's anointing led to mighty works of God's Spirit through him?
The same happened with Jesus of Nazareth at the Jordan.
Nick,I wonder what you think makes one an anointed of God. Is it the pouring on of “magic oil”? Is it the pouring on of God's Spirit? Or is it the fact that God has chosen that one for a specific purpose?
I believe it is the latter. I believe the person is already the anointed of God from the moment God decides to use that person for a specific purpose.
I believe the oil is for show – as a declaration to others that this one IS an anointed one of God. And I believe the pouring out of Spirit is something God eventually does to help guide his anointed ones in their chosen purpose.
As you can see from scripture, both Saul and David were first chosen by God for their purpose, THEN had oil applied to them, THEN received God's Holy Spirit.
If you believe that they weren't truly God's anointed ones UNTIL they received the Spirit, then how were David and Saul anointed by God BEFORE they received the Spirit – like scriptures say?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2012,17:57) Hi MB,
If Jesus had been anointed at or before birth no way could his life have been unremarkable till the Jordan.
The Spirit would have worked obviously through him from the time of the anointing
Nick,Many of God's anointed prophets received prophesies via God's Spirit, then went through many years of regular life with no visions before another vision/prophecy was given them via Spirit. Why would you think Jesus had to be prophesying and teaching non-stop from the moment he was an anointed one of God when the other anointed prophets didn't?
And finally, don't you find it odd that the one sent to make the way clear for the Lord was filled with Holy Spirit from the womb, but not the Lord himself, who was actually fathered via the Holy Spirit?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 24 2012,08:13) Mike, Nick is right about Jesus receiving his Anointing at the time he was Baptized By John at the Jordan river, even though he was already the “Prophesied” Messiah………
Gene,Had the angel in Luke 2 said, “he is the PROPHESIED Messiah”, I would be on board with you. But as you often put it, “That's not what the words actually say, now is it?”
Hi MB,
The life of John the baptist was different to that of other ordinary men as he was baptised in the Spirit in the womb.
Was Jesus not a man because God was his father?No prophet had ever been given the fullness of God's spirit prior to Jesus Christ.
Note the astonishment of those who knew him prior to the Jordan and who said in mt 13
” Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers? Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary and his brothers called …
Where then did this man get all these things?”Nick,
Luke 2
46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.Jesus was 12 at the time.
N
Quote Was Jesus not a man because God was his father? how you can even say this ,is be on my understanding ,THIS WOULD MEAN WHAT
new creation new dirt ,what was God is father
wen was Jesus created wen is the beginning begins ??wen does firstborn over all creation begins???how can he be the one were through all things are created be born trough a women millions of years later
?Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,Nick,it appears that you do not accept scriptures the way it is written
or do you When Did Yahshua's Anointing Take Place?
But Shimeon Kepha opened his mouth and he said, “In truth, I understand that Yahweh is no respecter of persons. In EVERY NATION He finds favor with those who REVERE HIM and DOES WHAT IS RIGHT. You know what happened throughout Yahdah, beginning in Galilee, AFTER Yahchanan began proclaiming his message of immersion. Yahweh anointed Yahshua of Nazareth with the Set Apart [“Holy”] Spirit and with power [authority]” (Acts 10:34-38).
When all the people were immersed, Yahshua was also immersed and He began communing [“praying”]. Then the heaven was opened, and the Set Apart [“Holy”] Spirit descended like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, “You are My beloved son” (Lukyah 3:21-22).
He taught regularly in their synagogues and was praised by everyone. When he came to the village of Nazareth, his boyhood home, he went, as his custom was, to the synagogue on THE SABBATH and stood up to read the Scriptures. The scroll of Isayah the prophet was handed to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where this was written and began to read: “The Spirit of Yahweh is upon me, because He has anointed me to proclaim the glad tidings to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, and to proclaim the acceptable era of Yahweh.” He rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down. All eyes in the synagogue looked at him intently. Then he began to speak to them. “The Scripture you've just heard has been fulfilled at this very time” (Lukyah 4:15-21).
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,04:04) Nick, Luke 2
46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.Jesus was 12 at the time.
Hi MB,
Yes his Father had trained him well in the Word.
No miraculous powers though?Hi MB,
Yes God was WITH him.
No suggestion that his unique parenthood made him more than human.He truly was taught by his Father[heb12]
But he is not said to be FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT till after the Jordan[lk4]Hi MB,
Jn 14.10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?Well we can understand the second part as possibly relating to flesh and GOD WAS IN HIM RECONCILING THE WORLD TO HIMSELF
But the first part where HE IS IN THE FATHER surely is as the WORD – One in God's Spirit.
Almost everything he said was spiritual and not relating to flesh.
I suggest this whole teaching from jn 14-17 is of the relationship between the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God in the one Spirit.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 25 2012,04:19) N Quote Was Jesus not a man because God was his father? how you can even say this ,is be on my understanding ,THIS WOULD MEAN WHAT
new creation new dirt ,what was God is father
wen was Jesus created wen is the beginning begins ??wen does firstborn over all creation begins???how can he be the one were through all things are created be born trough a women millions of years later
?Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,Nick,it appears that you do not accept scriptures the way it is written
or do you
Pierre,The answer to you question is right there in front of your eyes in what you have posted and you still can not see!
Quote THIS WOULD MEAN WHAT new creation Father Yahweh is still in the creation process:
“Behold, I will create NEW heavens and a NEW earth. The FORMER THINGS will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind” (Isayah 65:16).
Quote wen does firstborn over all creation begins??? It is AFTER Yahshua's DEATH as is revealed in the following verse that you posted:
Quote he is the beginning and the firstborn FROM AMONG THE DEAD, Note that in the above verse that you posted “the beginning and the firstborn” is in reference to the NEW CREATION and not in reference to Father Yahweh creating the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM in the BEGINNING (GENESIS). The word 'Genesis' means 'Beginning' and is in reference to Father Yahweh's beginning the creation of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM, and not to the NEW creation in later times. Father Yahweh is to later BEGIN a NEW CREATION in which His son Yahshua is the beginning of. See Isayah 65:16 above. It is quite clear that this verse when it says “the beginning and the firstborn” can not be in reference to the creation IN THE BEGINNING (GENESIS), since Yahshua most certainly was not “FROM AMONG THE DEAD in Genesis.
As I have tried to explain MANY times before in this forum (which fell on deaf ears and blind eyes that do not perceive or understand {SEE & HEAR}), Yahshua did NOT create ANYTHING, nor did he EVER proclaim that he did. It was his and our Father Yahweh Who created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. It was Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM”, Who created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. This truth as recorded in the so-called “Old Testament” and is revealed in SOME 107 SCRIPTURE VERSES AND PASSAGES that clearly show us that Father Yahweh did not create “THROUGH” His son Yahshua as if he were a pre-existent being BESIDE HIM in the VERY BEGINNING (GENESIS) of His creating.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 25 2012,06:52) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 25 2012,04:19) N Quote Was Jesus not a man because God was his father? how you can even say this ,is be on my understanding ,THIS WOULD MEAN WHAT
new creation new dirt ,what was God is father
wen was Jesus created wen is the beginning begins ??wen does firstborn over all creation begins???how can he be the one were through all things are created be born trough a women millions of years later
?Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,Nick,it appears that you do not accept scriptures the way it is written
or do you
Pierre,The answer to you question is right there in front of your eyes in what you have posted and you still can not see!
Quote THIS WOULD MEAN WHAT new creation Father Yahweh is still in the creation process:
“Behold, I will create NEW heavens and a NEW earth. The FORMER THINGS will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind” (Isayah 65:16).
Quote wen does firstborn over all creation begins??? It is AFTER Yahshua's DEATH as is revealed in the following verse that you posted:
Quote he is the beginning and the firstborn FROM AMONG THE DEAD, Note that in the above verse that you posted “the beginning and the firstborn” is in reference to the NEW CREATION and not in reference to Father Yahweh creating the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM in the BEGINNING (GENESIS). The word 'Genesis' means 'Beginning' and is in reference to Father Yahweh's beginning the creation of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM, and not to the NEW creation in later times. Father Yahweh is to later BEGIN a NEW CREATION in which His son Yahshua is the beginning of. See Isayah 65:16 above. It is quite clear that this verse when it says “the beginning and the firstborn” can not be in reference to the creation IN THE BEGINNING (GENESIS), since Yahshua most certainly was not “FROM AMONG THE DEAD in Genesis.
As I have tried to explain MANY times before in this forum (which fell on deaf ears and blind eyes that do not perceive or understand {SEE & HEAR}), Yahshua did NOT create ANYTHING, nor did he EVER proclaim that he did. It was his and our Father Yahweh Who created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. It was Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM”, Who created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. This truth as recorded in the so-called “Old Testament” and is revealed in SOME 107 SCRIPTURE VERSES AND PASSAGES that clearly show us that Father Yahweh did not create “THROUGH” His son Yahshua as if he were a pre-existent being BESIDE HIM in the VERY BEGINNING (GENESIS) of His creating.
THE PRE-EXISTENCE OF YAHSHUA
Rev. 3:14 & Col. 1:15Two scriptures are often used to show that Yahshua was the very first act of creation by Yahweh. Everything else is said to have been created by, or with the help of, Yahshua. Those scriptures are Col. 1:15 and Rev. 3:14. Let's look at Col. 1:15 first. Who is the image of the invisible Elohim, the firstborn of every creature: …”. What does the latter part of this verse mean? Does “ever creature” include the angels that rejoiced at creation?
To understand this verse, you must first understand that Yahweh is in the process of creating a new world; “the world to come” as Heb. 2:5 puts it. Isayah 65:17, 18 speaks of the “new heavens and the new earth.” Those that rule in the new earth are those who that will be resurrected or “born from above” (Jn. 3:7). Psalms 102:18-20 puts it very clearly; “This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise Yahweh. For He hath looked down from the height of His sanctuary; from heaven did Yahweh behold the earth; to hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those who are appointed to death;” Theses people will be created, or born, at the resurrection.
To clarify even further, we read the following in Ps. 104:29,30; “Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.” Yahweh will resurrect the
dead through the power of His Holy Spirit. It is said of those that are resurrected that they are created.”The first person to be created, or born again from above, was Yahshua. Therefore, he is called the “firstborn.” Since there are many that will be born again at the resurrection, he is the “firstborn of every creature (that will be resurrected).” Col. 1:18 elaborates further by telling us that Yahshua is the firstborn of the dead. This takes place at the resurrection. It is also said of Yahshua that he is “the beginning” (Col. 1:18). This is the same term that is used in Rev. 3:14 which reads, “And unto the angel of the assembly of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of Yahweh; …”. Does this beginning refer to a time before the angels were created or does it refer to the new creation? Some would argue that the word “new” is not in the text. Yahweh has shown us however, that He does not always use the word “new” in describing the new creation. Notice Isayah 65:17,18; “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.” This is speaking of New Jerusalem, yet the word “New” is not used by Yahweh.
Continuing in Colossians to verse 17 we read, “and he is before all things and by him all things consist.” As a result of this translation, we are lead to believe that Yahshua existed prior to everything else, including the angels. The same Greek phrase, “before all things,” is also found in Ja. 5:12 and 1 Pe. 4:8. Both of those text read “above all things.” That is because the Greek word “pro,” translated “before.” also carries the meaning of superiority or pre-eminence. Since Col. 1:15-18 proclaims the pre-eminence of Yahshua in all things (vs. 18), translating verse 17 as “above all things” would fit the context.
YAHSHUA: THE BEGINNING OF YAHWEH'S CREATION
Revelation 3:14
By Voy Wilks
6/18/96“Theses things sayeth the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of Yahweh's creation” (Rev. 3:14, RSV).
Being identified as “the faithful and true witness,” both here and in Rev. 1:15, makes clear that “Amen”: is indeed a reference to Yahshua, the Messiah.
This being true, does this also mean that, first of all, the Supreme Being (Yahweh) created His son Yahshua, and only later created the angels, the stars, the sun, moon and earth, then last of all, created man upon the earth? Indeed no.
We must realize: there are two creations spoken of in Scriptures:
(1) The six day creation of physical things of which Adam was a part; Adam, the first man ever to exist (Gen. 1:27; 2:7,19; 1 Cor. 15:45). Because it was physical, this creation quickly fell into unrighteousness and, as a consequence, death entered; and that by the transgression of one man – Adam). And so, death passed to all men (Rom. 5:12).
Death: the enemy of all the physical creation, and especially the enemy of mankind (1 Cor. 15:25,26). The present creation could be called. “the creation in which dwelleth UNrighteousness.”
(2) But there is to be another creation; a creation in which dwelleth righteousness. This creation consist of a new heaven and a new earth (2 Peter 3:13). The Prophet Isaiah predicted the same (Isaiah 65:17; 66:22). The Apostle John too, declared there will one day be a New Heaven and a New Earth (Rev. 21:1). Nothing unclean will enter there Sorrow and crying will flee away. There will be no more curse (Rev. 21:4; 22:3).
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be remembered, nor come into mind. …. For, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy” (Isa. 65:17,18).
“For as the new heaven and the new earth which I will make …” (Isa. 66:22).
Abraham and the ancient Saints looked to the future for a homeland, a better country, a city whose maker is Yahweh (Heb. 11:14,15). And Yahweh has prepared for them a city (Heb. 11:16; Rev. 21:2).
Theses Scriptures speak of “The World Tomorrow.”
“For it was not to the angels that Yahweh subjected the WORLD TO COME, of which WE ARE SPEAKING,” [but to the seed of Abraham] (Heb. 2:5, 16, RSV).
“And Yahshua said to them, the sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that AGE and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry or are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the RESURRECTION” (Luke 20:34-36).
“So with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a physical body, it is raised a SPIRITUAL body” (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).
Yahweh s planning a new creation; a creation in which the true Believers will posses spiritual bodies which do not decay. This comes about by the resurrection from the dead and the grave. Yahshua was the first to rise from the dead. He was declared to be the Son of Yahweh by this very act; his resurrection from the dead (Rom. 1:1-4). If Yahshua had not pleased the heavenly Father, he would still be in the grave today … [and would not be Father Yahweh's son].
But he did please the heavenly Father, and so, became the firstfruits of the resurrection – the first to receive immortality; a new creation (1 Cor. 15:20-24).
“He [Yahshua] is the image of the invisible Elohim, the firstborn of all creation …” (Col 1:15). The creation under consideration is the new (the spiritual) creation, revealed in verse 18:
“He is the head of the body, the assembly; he is the beginning. the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent” (Col. 1:18).
For the redeemed, there will be a conversion, a change (a creation) of our physical bodies into spiritual bodies, thus a new social order; spiritual bodies (people) who are immortal, everlasting, indestructible; incorruptible; a spiritual * society fro the new earth in which dwelleth righteousness (2 Peter 3:13).
Conclusion
In view of the Scriptures noted above, Rev. 3:14 must not be considered as evidence that Yahshua was created before (or during) the six day creation recorded in Genesis.
So Yahshua, The Amen, the faithful and true witness, truly is the BEGINNING OF YAHWEH'S CREATION – The NEW Creation.
* Please keep in mind that the physical is real, but the spiritual is more real.
SOURCEQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,05:39) Trained him via His Holy Spirit, Nick?
Hi Mike,You disagree?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 25 2012,06:52) Note that in the above verse that you posted “the beginning and the firstborn” is in reference to the NEW CREATION and not in reference to Father Yahweh creating the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM in the BEGINNING (GENESIS). The word 'Genesis' means 'Beginning' and is in reference to Father Yahweh's beginning the creation of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM, and not to the NEW creation in later times. Father Yahweh is to later BEGIN a NEW CREATION in which His son Yahshua is the beginning of. See Isayah 65:16 above. It is quite clear that this verse when it says “the beginning and the firstborn” can not be in reference to the creation IN THE BEGINNING (GENESIS), since Yahshua most certainly was not “FROM AMONG THE DEAD in Genesis. As I have tried to explain MANY times before in this forum (which fell on deaf ears and blind eyes that do not perceive or understand {SEE & HEAR}), Yahshua did NOT create ANYTHING, nor did he EVER proclaim that he did. It was his and our Father Yahweh Who created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. It was Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM”, Who created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. This truth as recorded in the so-called “Old Testament” and is revealed in SOME 107 SCRIPTURE VERSES AND PASSAGES that clearly show us that Father Yahweh did not create “THROUGH” His son Yahshua as if he were a pre-existent being BESIDE HIM in the VERY BEGINNING (GENESIS) of His creating.
Frank………..I completely agree with this Post, Jesus is the first of God”s New Creation (in) Mankind he is the first of MANY brethren> being recreated by Yahweh by transforming their hearts and minds. All who have the spirit of Christ are members of that new creation. You have it right brother,IMO.peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
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