Preexistence

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 17 2012,21:26)

What Jesus said was as follows: Quote Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. And he was speaking of the glory that God was about to give him by exalting to his current position as head of the church as the judge of the living and the dead. He said “Now” glorify me, not “now glorify me again”…with the glory that I had with thee before the world was”. This was foreordained.

Oh, I see.

So even though his actual words were “the glory I HAD”, you have taken it upon yourself to alter the meaning of those words and decide that Jesus should have said “the glory I was foreordained to someday have” – because that is what he meant, huh?

Let the actual written words of God teach you, Marty. God has no need for your interpretations that add to, take away from, or alter the meaning of what was clearly written.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 17 2012,21:30)

I have answer Mike……………

Ed,

Pierre was posting many scriptures that display for us how important it is, not to only believe the words of God Himself, but also of the one He sent and appointed as our Lord and King.

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 18 2012,14:30)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 18 2012,21:19) Hi Pierre, I see you're still posting a bunch of Scripture WITHOUT TELLING US WHY; right? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj are you never going to make an effort to read what is at stake in the quotes?? I have answer Mike , and then prove my point with the appropriate scriptures to back it up . thing what Mike and others have ask of you ,and you hardly do , and as you can see i do not twist the meaning of scriptures just quoting them and they speak for themselves

PIERRE,

How about these verses then? Do these verses help tie this idea together for you?

      the glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14)
      compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18)

The Word of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Hebrews 7:28)

1Pet.1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of
incorruptible, by “The Word” of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Of his own will begat he us with “The Word” of truth,
that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2012,14:36)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 17 2012,21:30) I have answer Mike…………… Ed, Pierre was posting many scriptures that display for us how important it is, not to only believe the words of God Himself, but also of the one He sent and appointed as our Lord and King.

Hi Mike,

              You mean “prince” right?

Acts 3:15 [they] killed the Prince of life, whom God
hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

                    God is our “King”.

YHVH sitteth upon the flood; yea, YHVH sitteth King for ever. (Psalms 29:10)
YHVH is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land. (Psalms 10:16)
Is it time for you to try to make Scripture argue with Scripture, as Nick has pointed out that you do?

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
The king rode into Jerusalem on a donkey.

The Son was given a kingdom on earth and will assume it soon on the seat of David.
Dan 7.14 Ps 2 Ps 89

He has written on his thigh
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19

But when he has brought peace and order to the earth during his 1000yr reign [rev 20]he hands the authority back to his God.
1Cor 15.28

[NickHassan]

Hi,

The Word of God is appointed king over other earthly kings.
Revelation 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

But as Ed said and 1 Tim 6.15 shows, his God is the ultimate King

[Ed J]

Hi Nick, who was riding into Jerusalem with Jesus?

             “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28)
           “God was in Christ”   (2 Cor 5:19)

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son,
and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2012,19:08)

Hi, The Word of God is appointed king over other earthly kings. Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. But as Ed said and 1 Tim 6.15 shows, his God is the ultimate King

Hi Nick,

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 18 2012,19:18)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2012,19:08) Hi, The Word of God is appointed king over other earthly kings. Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. But as Ed said and 1 Tim 6.15 shows, his God is the ultimate King Hi Nick, Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Nick,

“The head of Christ is God” (1 Cor 11:3)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi Ed,
Indeed.
The Head shall be ruler over his brother kings.
Lk 18.17, 2Tim 2.12, Rev 20.4

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2012,19:22)

Hi Ed, Indeed. The Head shall be ruler over his brother kings. Lk 18.17, 2Tim 2.12, Rev 20.4

HI Nick,

What does any of that got to do with God not(?) being our “KING”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi Ed,
Is Lord Jesus Christ not your king under God?
Lk 19.27

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 18 2012,21:46)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 18 2012,14:30) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 18 2012,21:19) Hi Pierre, I see you're still posting a bunch of Scripture WITHOUT TELLING US WHY; right? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj are you never going to make an effort to read what is at stake in the quotes?? I have answer Mike , and then prove my point with the appropriate scriptures to back it up . thing what Mike and others have ask of you ,and you hardly do , and as you can see i do not twist the meaning of scriptures just quoting them and they speak for themselves PIERRE, How about these verses then? Do these verses help tie this idea together for you?       the glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14)       compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18) The Word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Hebrews 7:28) 1Pet.1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by “The Word” of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Of his own will begat he us with “The Word” of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Edj

Those two verses do talk about glories but one is for Christ and the one in ROm 8:18
Talks about the 144k what was the premises of Christ.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2012,21:36)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 17 2012,21:30) I have answer Mike…………… Ed, Pierre was posting many scriptures that display for us how important it is, not to only believe the words of God Himself, but also of the one He sent and appointed as our Lord and King.

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2012,19:41)

Hi Ed, Is Lord Jesus Christ not your king under God? Lk 19.27

Hi Nick, interesting, Mike has two God's and you have two kings?   …anybody for two “Lords”?

              My answer's the same for all three, and here it is…

First: [יהוה] YÄ-hä-vā translates directly into The English as YHVH. (AKJV Bible: JEHOVAH)
Secondly: [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă translates directly into English as Joshua. (AKJV Bible: Jesus)

[אדני] Âdônây in Hebrew means: “Lord” or “Owner” and is akin to
[Κύριος] kü-rē-ŏs in Greek meaning “The Same”: “Lord”/ “Owner”

“You” cannot argue with this “Bible Truth”! (LORD: means Owner)
I will orchestrate my explanation around the term “Owner”.
The AKJV Bible uses: Lord for [יהשוע] and LORD for [יהוה].

The Trinitarians do say: Jesus is “The Owner”.
The non-Trinitarians then reply: Jesus is NOT
“The Owner”, Jesus' Father is “The Owner”!

                   A Closer Examination

Technically Jesus is: “owner” but NOT “THE OWNER”!
This can be clearly seen and understood using the word “Owner”!

Jehovah is “The Owner” and Jesus is The Son of “The Owner”.
Jehovah CANNOT DIE, so Jehovah will ALWAYS remain “The Owner”!
A Son can 'only' become become fully “The Owner” if the Parent dies,
which in JEHOVAH's case cannot happen; because GOD CANNOT DIE!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 18 2012,20:17)

what was the premises of Christ.

Hi Pierre,

What does that mean? I don't understand your question?

You do know the word “WHAT” means you are asking a question; right?

Also a question mark (?) is need at at the end of the sentence; you do know that too; right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2012,08:51)

Quote (david @ Mar. 14 2012,23:33) I have to wonder what you think of Dan 9. I have to wonder why magi and shepherds came to do homage to Jesus when he was born.  I wonder why Herod had the scribes and Pharisees search the scriptures to find out where the CHRIST was TO BE born. (Matthew 2:4)  I wonder why the scribes didn't tell Herod, “Don't worry, because according to Daniel, the Christ doesn't come for 30 more years.“ I wonder why so many babies had to be killed when Daniel pinpointed the time the Christ was to come. But mostly, I wonder why you guys won't believe the angel that said the Christ had been born.  Or why you won't believe that God kept His promise to Simeon when Jesus was only 8 days old. David, I haven't decyphered Daniel's timeline.  I read the JW book on Daniel a couple of years back, but couldn't make a rational decision myself, because I was (and still am) on milk. I do find it odd that the experts in the Law and the Prophets didn't think it odd that the Christ was said to have already been born – 30 years ahead of schedule.

Hi Mike,

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching
the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and
the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” (Mark 1:14-15)

       What does “The time is fulfilled” mean?

This one is on the seventy weeks in Daniel 9:24-27.  
I stalwartly suggest you watch this video. These people
call themselves “the church of Christ” and they are well informed.

The time line, regarding this, starts at 15:25 through to 52:30.
Please watch it all the way to the end count that I have given you. (37 minutes)

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2012,02:08)

But as Ed said and 1 Tim 6.15 shows, his God is the ultimate King.

Hi Nick

Perhaps your “king” discussion with Ed will help me explain to you that Jesus is a “lessor god”.

You seem to be able to accept that God is the “Ultimate King”, although there have been many lesser kings under Him.  For example, David was King of Israel at the same time God was the Ultimate King of Israel.  We could easily say that God is the “only true King” of Israel – meaning He is above any other king.  That would not make David, His anointed, a “false king”, or a “so-called king”.  It would merely emphasize that although David was also truly a King of Israel, God was still over him as the Ultimate King of Israel.

Or we could say that Israel has but ONE King, and there are no others.  Again, this would not make David just disappear from history.  Instead, it would be an emphatic way of declaring the Ultimacy of Jehovah' Kingship.

This is the same concept with the God of gods, and all the other gods He is the God of.  Although there be many gods and lords, both in heaven and on earth, Jehovah is the Ultimate God and the Ultimate Lord.  That doesn't make the other gods “false gods” or “so-called gods”.  It merely emphasizes that, although these other gods do exist, Jehovah is over them all as the Ultimate God.

I think much of the problem (or stigma) results from our current, commonly accepted definition of “god”.  Today, we understand the word “god” to be defining “The One Omniscient Creator of All Things” – and no one else.  But that is never what the word meant in OT or NT times.  The words “el” and “theos” referred to any one of many “mighty ones”, or “ones to be feared/revered”.

Even Deborah was a god, because she was the mighty leader of the nation of Israel.  With God's help, she defeated the Canaanites, causing her to be a “mighty one”, or “one to be feared/revered”.  No one in those days assumed that because she was a god that she was also “The One Omniscient Creator of All Things”.  But today, if I were to called Deborah a god, everyone would be shouting at me, assuming I was calling her “The One Omniscient Creator of All Things”.

So, to truly understand the scriptures, one must “time travel” a little bit, and try to understand the words as they were meant THEN, as opposed to whatever they might mean to most people TODAY.  One cannot sensibly say with today's understanding, “Satan is not a god, because he is not The One Omniscient Creator of All Things.”  That would be to apply today's definition of “god” to a time in history when that definition simply didn't exist.  After doing such a careless thing, we must then try to twist many scriptures to make them conform to the way we today understand the word “god”.  And doing that causes us to have a twisted understanding of what the scriptures truly teach.  We are then, in effect, doctoring the written word of God – trying to make it conform to our current definition of the word “god”.

People, there is and always has been but ONE Almighty Creator of All Things.  But, as God's own written word attests, many of those created by that One are also “mighty ones”, or “ones to be feared/revered”, and therefore “gods”.

So yes, Satan IS a “lesser god”, who is not The Omniscient Creator of All Things.  And Jesus, although also not being The Omniscient Creator of All Things, is also truly a god.  These are but two of the many gods Jehovah is the God of.  

If any of you cannot accept this teaching, then at least accept that it is scriptural.  Accept that when I adhere to the scriptures and the meaning of “god” therein, I am not being a pagan who is inventing many gods to worship.  I am not inventing “lesser gods” or “little gods” out of my own imagination, but instead speaking exactly according to the scriptures, using the Bible writers' definition of “god”, instead of the commonly accepted definition of today.

Remember that the titles “God of gods”, “God Most High”, and “God Almighty” would carry no meaning whatsoever had there not existed other lesser gods for Jehovah to be the God of, Higher than, and Mightier than.

[GeneBalthrop]

To ALL………….Though there be “CALLED” GODS MANY” but unto Us there is but ONE GOD “ And let not forget Jesus words, in Prayer  when he said FOR THOU ART THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD “ The word  Thou mean “YOU” and the Word “ONLY” Means NO OTHER EXISTS>  These two scriptures alone should clear this up. How a simple a thing as this , can be so mixed up and complicated is simply amazing !.  There exist NO OTHER GOD BUT ONE and He is the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY>  GOD even said “HE LOOKED for ANOTHER GOD and there was “NONE” .

The only reasons Preexistences want us to believe there are other “lesser” Gods is to force their belief of Jesus' preexistence as a “Lesser” GOD to GOD the Father existing in the Past with HIM> All false teachings, Jesus is NO GOD  Now and NEVER WAS a GOD Not NOW or EVER WILL BE.  Jesus is now and always was a SON OF MAN Just as we all are.

peace and love to you all…………………………………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 19 2012,03:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 18 2012,20:17) what was the premises of Christ. Hi Pierre, What does that mean? I don't understand your question? You do know the word “WHAT” means you are asking a question; right? Also a question mark (?) is need at at the end of the sentence; you do know that too; right? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

You do know the word “WHAT” means you are asking a question; right?

sorry it should be THAT

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