Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Everything done in power by Jesus Christ was because of his anointing from above.[acts 10.38]

[mikeboll64]

Nick,

You have made the claim that when Jesus said, I came down from heaven, it was the spirit speaking through him.

YOU made the claim. Can you SCRIPTURALLY prove that claim?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The Word was with God and the Word was God.
The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

[Proclaimer]

“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.”

If that is God speaking about himself through Jesus, then God was sent to do who's will?

If it is Jesus speaking in the name of his Father, then Jesus is obviously referring to himself.

Hence it was Jesus who came down from Heaven, and he did say “I” after all. If we do not believe Jesus own testimony, then we do not truly believe the one who sent him.

John 8:14
Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

………. 23 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

[NickHassan]

Hi T8,
Yes the Spirit of Christ, that was in the form of God of course, came as a servant in the flesh of Jesus.[phil2]

Jesus became the ANOINTED Jesus, Jesus Christ and is now spoken of retrospectively because of that utter unity.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever.

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2012,13:12)

Quote (shimmer @ Mar. 08 2012,01:07) Mike.. Why are you (With everyone else) so pre-occupied with this pre-existance business? Jesus exists now. Why dwell on whats been? John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. Shimmer, if Jesus himself said the words, I came down from heaven, then I take in that knowledge of him. Shouldn't you do the same?  I don't want to someday say “Lord, Lord”, and hear in reply, “Away from me.  I never knew you.” If a person can't even believe the words of the one they call their Lord, then what good are they to him?  For he also said, The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Spirit and Life, Shimmer.  And some of those words were I came down from heaven. Either believe your Lord or don't. Anyway, t8 addressed your point very well, IMO.  I concur with his words.

Mike,

I never ever doubted pre-existance, untill I started posting up here.

Ask t8. He will remember, I think – from when I used to discuss with Bod.

My main argument (In Skeptics).. was that Jesus came down from heaven, and His words must take precedence over all others (including Mohammad's) – because HE – Jesus –  was from above.

So, pre-existance was not an issue for me.

But up here, it only takes a few.

As Apostle Paul said:

“Your boasting is not good.  Do you not know that a little leaven will leaven the whole lump?”

I'm sure you've seen the stories of believers… discussing and debating… only for one or two – to give up altogether, in everything they had ever believed.

My only question was pre-existance. I thought I was onto something (with 'Fruits').

Anways, remember, always:

¶ You should keep these things in remembrance as a testimony before our Lord, that the faithful should not argue over words in which there is no profit but which are destruction to those who listen to them. Strive to conduct yourself perfectly before God, as a soldier without reproach and one who preaches straightforwardly the word of truth”.

Anything done with a good motive, and the right heart, will see results.

Think of the perfect Teacher – who was it?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2012,13:18)

“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.” If that is God speaking about himself through Jesus, then God was sent to do who's will? If it is Jesus speaking in the name of his Father, then Jesus is obviously referring to himself. Hence it was Jesus who came down from Heaven, and he did say “I” after all. If we do not believe Jesus own testimony, then we do not truly believe the one who sent him. John 8:14 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.” ………. 23 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

T8………Jesus was not talking about a LOCATION but a state of Mind. His thinking was (VIA) the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD was from above and their thinking was from Below or earthly.  When are you people going to believe God the Father was “TRULY” in Jesus as the SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of  GOD was directing his very thoughts.

When are you going to come to the point of Thomas who said MY Lord “AND' MY GOD You have got to come to see GOD'S “PRESENCE (IN) Jesus. If you can't see that you have not even started to understand Jesus or what he was saying. IMO

the son of Man can do “NOTHING” of HIMSELF , the Father (IN ME) “HE” does the works. ……….> now what part of that don't you people understand it is clear GOD was TRULY (IN) Jesus.  Lets be Honest here you simply do not truly believe GOD was (IN) Jesus, but are to afraid to admit it.

Jesus after his baptizem in the Jordan river recieved the fullness of God (IN) Him and was sent from that point in time out into the earth to minister as a servant of God, “GODS WORDS” not his word to us.  That is why Jesus could say he was from above “Heaven” and they were from Below “earthly”  none of that dialog had anything to do with location of origin of prior existence at all but position of mind and authority.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene

[NickHassan]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2012,13:18)

“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.” If that is God speaking about himself through Jesus, then God was sent to do who's will? If it is Jesus speaking in the name of his Father, then Jesus is obviously referring to himself. Hence it was Jesus who came down from Heaven, and he did say “I” after all. If we do not believe Jesus own testimony, then we do not truly believe the one who sent him. John 8:14 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.” ………. 23 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

Hi t8,
” I am in the Father and the Father is in me.”

The Spirit of Christ is in the Spirit of God and the Spirit of God is in the Spirit of Christ.

The Spirit is one and inseparable.

The Word came as a SERVANT [phil2] and your quote is from that servant Spirit in Jesus.

What is intellectually OBVIOUS also tripped the pharisees.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,13:09)

Hi Frank, Me neither. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J,

Then why do you ask the question “The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'?” and then seem to in turn answer the question in saying “The Bible says “The Word” was with God.” as if this is actually saying 'God was with God'? when in fact it does not. Is it possible for you to answer my question with a simple “Yes” or No” whether it is your belief 'God was with God'?

[Proclaimer]

Who is saying that the Father was NOT in Jesus and Jesus NOT in the Father.
Who is also saying that we also CANNOT be in Jesus and in the Father and they NOT in us.
No one is saying that, so it is not an excuse to use against myself and anyone else.

But saying that the Father spoke through Jesus about himself (the Father) to get around certain difficult scriptures for the view that Jesus was only a man created 2000 or so years ago, is not only a poor excuse but is deception.

Jesus said, “before Abraham I am” about himself.
Jesus said, “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”.
Jesus said, “my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.”

Jesus is talking about himself, it is not God the Father talking about himself.

It is also not my fault if you do not know where Jesus came from and where he was going. I remind you again that Jesus said it himself, “glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”

I believe Jesus own testimony and believe that the Father was his other witness. If you do not believe Jesus own testimony, then you also deny his other witness, the Father. This is not my fault, you had the same scriptures that we do. You can only blame yourself if you deny both the Father and son as witnesses. As Jesus himself said, “if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” And I have said myself that we will have Pharisees even unto the end of the age.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2012,05:42)

Who is saying that the Father was NOT in Jesus and Jesus NOT in the Father. Who is also saying that we also CANNOT be in Jesus and in the Father and they NOT in us. No one is saying that, so it is not an excuse to use against myself and anyone else. But saying that the Father spoke through Jesus about himself (the Father) to get around certain difficult scriptures for the view that Jesus was only a man created 2000 or so years ago, is not only a poor excuse but is deception. Jesus said, “before Abraham I am” about himself. Jesus said, “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”. Jesus said, “my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.” Jesus is talking about himself, it is not God the Father talking about himself. It is also not my fault if you do not know where Jesus came from and where he was going. I remind you again that Jesus said it himself, “glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” I believe Jesus own testimony and believe that the Father was his other witness. If you do not believe Jesus own testimony, then you also deny his other witness, the Father. This is not my fault, you had the same scriptures that we do. You can only blame yourself if you deny both the Father and son as witnesses. As Jesus himself said, “if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” And I have said myself that we will have Pharisees even unto the end of the age.

Digression 23: “I Came Down From Heaven”

“The bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world…I came down from heaven” (John 6:33,38).

These words, and others like them, are misused to support the wrong idea that Jesus physically existed in Heaven before his birth. The following points, however, must be noted:

1. Trinitarians take these words as literal in order to prove their point. However, if we are to take them literally, then this means that somehow Jesus literally floated down through the skies. Not only is the Bible totally silent about this, but the language of Jesus being conceived as a baby in Mary's womb is made meaningless. Jn.6:60 describes the teaching about the manna as a saying “hard to take in” (Moffatt's Translation); i.e. we need to understand that it is figurative language being used.

2. In John 6, Jesus is explaining how the manna was a type of himself. The manna was sent from God in the sense that it was God who was responsible for creating it on the earth; it did not physically float down from the throne of God in Heaven. Thus Christ's coming from Heaven is to be understood likewise; he was created on earth, by the Holy Spirit acting upon the womb of Mary (Lk.1:35).

3. Jesus says that “the bread that I will give is my flesh” (Jn.6:51). Trinitarians claim that it was the 'God' part of Jesus which came down from Heaven. But Jesus says that it was his “flesh” which was the bread which came down from Heaven. Likewise Jesus associates the bread from Heaven with himself as the “Son of man” (Jn.6:62), not 'God the Son'.

4. In this same passage in John 6 there is abundant evidence that Jesus was not equal to God. “The living Father hath sent me” (Jn.6:57) shows that Jesus and God do not share co-equality; and the fact that “I live by the Father” (Jn.6:57) is hardly the 'co-eternity' of which Trinitarians speak.

5. It must be asked, When and how did Jesus 'come down' from Heaven? Trinitarians use these verses in John 6 to 'prove' that Jesus came down from Heaven at his birth. But Jesus speaks of himself as “he which cometh down from heaven” (v.33,50), as if it is an ongoing process. Speaking of God's gift of Jesus, Christ said “My Father is giving you the bread” from Heaven (v.32 Weymouth). At the time Jesus was speaking these words, he had already 'come down' in a certain sense, in that he had been sent by God. Because of this, he could also speak in the past tense: “I am the living bread which came down from Heaven” (v.51). But he also speaks about 'coming down' as the bread from Heaven in the form of his death on the cross: “The bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world” (v.51). So we have Jesus speaking here of having already come down from Heaven, being in the process of 'coming down', and still having to 'come down' in his death on the cross. This fact alone should prove that 'coming down' refers to God manifesting Himself, rather than only referring to Christ's birth. This is conclusively proved by all the Old Testament references to God 'coming down' having just this same meaning. Thus God saw the affliction of His people in Egypt, and 'came down' to save them through Moses. He has seen our bondage to sin, and has 'come down' or manifested Himself, by sending Jesus as the equivalent to Moses to lead us out of bondage.
SOURCE

Also see:

Yahshua Came Down From Heaven
By Voy Wilks
1990 – Revised 1993

Digression 25: “Before Abraham Was, I Am” (Jn.8:58)

These words are often misapplied to teach that Jesus existed before Abraham did. However, closer investigation reveals the opposite to be true:

1.  Jesus does not say 'Before Abraham was, I was“. He was the promised descendant of Abraham; we make a nonsense of God's promises to Abraham if we say that Jesus physically existed before the time of Abraham.

2.  The context of Jn.8:58 is Christ's discourse with the Jews concerning Abraham. As far as they were concerned, Abraham was the greatest man who would ever live. Jesus is saying “I am now, as I stand here, more important than Abraham”. As they stood there, Jesus was the one to be honoured rather than Abraham. He is saying 'I am now, more important than Abraham ever was'. It is possible to understand “before” in Jn.8:58 with some reference to time, in the sense that before Abraham existed, Christ had been in God's plan right from the beginning of the world. It was because Jesus was “before” Abraham in this sense that he was “before” him in terms of importance.

3.  Proof of this is found in Jn.8:56: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad”. The only time Abraham is recorded to have laughed and be glad was when he was given the promise that he would have a seed; he understood that ultimately that promise had reference to Jesus (Gen.17:17). Abraham “saw” ahead to Christ through the promises made to him concerning Jesus. He cryptically commented about the future sacrifice of Jesus: “In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen” (Gen.22:14). It was in this sense that Jesus speaks of Abraham as having seen him. It is in this context of speaking about the promises that Jesus could say “Before Abraham was, I am”. He appreciated, as we have explained in Section 3.1, that God's promises to Abraham were revealing the plan about Jesus which God had known from the beginning of the world. That purpose, which had been “before Abraham was”, had been revealed to Abraham in the promises to him, and was now being fulfilled in the eyes of the Jews of the first century, as they stood in a ring around Jesus, “the word (of promi
se) made flesh”.

4.  It is often claimed that Jesus is alluding to the Divine Name when he says “I am”. We explained in Digression 3 that Jesus and indeed ordinary men can carry the Name of God, without this meaning that they are God Himself in person. However, it may be that Jesus is simply using the present tense of the verb 'to be'. The very same Greek construction occurs in Jn.9:9 a few verses later. The neighbours of the blind man who was cured asked each other whether he was indeed the same man who used to sit and beg: “Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am (he)” . You will notice that in the A.V. the word “he” is in italics. This means that it is not found in the original Greek text, but has been added by the translators. The blind man is saying “I am”, just as Jesus said “I am” in Jn.8:58. If we say that the fact Jesus said “I am” proves that he is very God, then we have to conclude that the blind man was also “very God”. However, it is worth noting that Yahweh, the Divine Name, really means “I will be who I will be” (Ex.3:14 R.S.V.mg.; R.V.mg.) rather than “I am”.
SOURCE

Also see:

What Did Yahshua Mean When He Said:
“Before Abraham Was, I Am.”?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2012,05:42)

Who is saying that the Father was NOT in Jesus and Jesus NOT in the Father. Who is also saying that we also CANNOT be in Jesus and in the Father and they NOT in us. No one is saying that, so it is not an excuse to use against myself and anyone else. But saying that the Father spoke through Jesus about himself (the Father) to get around certain difficult scriptures for the view that Jesus was only a man created 2000 or so years ago, is not only a poor excuse but is deception. Jesus said, “before Abraham I am” about himself. Jesus said, “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”. Jesus said, “my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.” Jesus is talking about himself, it is not God the Father talking about himself. It is also not my fault if you do not know where Jesus came from and where he was going. I remind you again that Jesus said it himself, “glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” I believe Jesus own testimony and believe that the Father was his other witness. If you do not believe Jesus own testimony, then you also deny his other witness, the Father. This is not my fault, you had the same scriptures that we do. You can only blame yourself if you deny both the Father and son as witnesses. As Jesus himself said, “if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” And I have said myself that we will have Pharisees even unto the end of the age.

“The Glory I Had With You Before The World Was”
Yahchanan [John] 17:5
Assembly of Yahweh (7th Day)

Do these words mean that Yahshua was personally with the Father from the very beginning? or are they expressive of the fact that Yahweh, as a wise Architect (Hebrews 11:10), foresaw the glory of His completed plan?

The latter without doubt! This is shown beyond question because of the use of similar language in the same manner.

Thus Kepha taught that Yahshua was “foreordained before the foundation of the world but was manifested (made known) in these last times for you” (1 Kepha [Peter] 1:20). Yahchanan [John] describes him as “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 13:8).

Was Yahshua “slain from the foundation of the world”? Typically, yes, in the sacrifices provided; but literally, no.

In like manner, Yahweh, who knows the end from the beginning, foresaw the glory of His son Yahshua and proclaimed it through the prophets. The ultimate glory of Yahshua was in the mind and purpose of the Father from the very beginning.

He also provided for the ultimate glory of Messiah's followers, so that Yahshua prayed:

“The glory which You gave me, I have given them” (Yahchanan [John] 17:22).

Do Messiah's followers possess his glory now? They do not, they are merely “in hope” of it (cf. Romans 5:2).

How can Yahshua then claim to have given it to them? Only in the sense that he has provisionally bestowed it, foreknowing that they to whom it is given in promise will fulfil the conditions to ultimately receive it in reality.

Thus, an accepted follower at Yahshua's coming could well speak to Yahweh as Yahshua prayed to the Father:

“Glorify You me with the glory that I had (in promise) with You before world began!”

Yahweh foreknows the completed purpose, and knowing that He will bring it to consummation, is able to “call those things which be not as though they are” (Romans 4:17). Shaul taught:

“Yahweh chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy, without blame before Him” (Eph. 1:4).

If John 17:5 proves the pre-existence of Yahshua, Ephesians 1:4 must prove the pre-existence of all who are followers of him!

The same language is used of other men whom Yahweh has used in a special way. Of Yeremiah it is written:

“Before I formed you in the belly I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations” (Yeremiah 1:5).

Does that prove the pre-existence of Yeremiah? If not, why should Yahchanan [John] 17:5 be used to teach the pre-existence of Yahshua, and so be made to conflict with many other references which speak of him as the son of David born 1900 years ago? Similar language is used of Shaul (Galatians 1:15) and others. When Yahshua returns, his accepted followers will be granted a glory similar to that bestowed upon him. They will be “conformed to the image of Father Yahweh's son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren” (Romans 8:29).

SOURCE

[terraricca]

all and f

Quote

These words, and others like them, are misused to support the wrong idea that Jesus physically existed in Heaven before his birth. The following points, however, must be noted:

this is the biggest problem with so called believers ;they just do NOT believe the word of God,they have to bring God and Christ and his disciples under control ;so they have to filter the language ,the meaning

actually what they doing is this ;;

LK 11:52 “Woe to you experts of the scriptures(experts of the law)! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering.”
LK 11:53 When He left there, the scribes and the Pharisees began to be very hostile and to question Him closely on many subjects,

yes” du deja vue “

[shimmer]

Mike, you said:

Quote

….I don't want to someday say “Lord, Lord”, and hear in reply, “Away from me.  I never knew you.”

OK, so that's good and true.

But Jesus carried on to say (in the same sentance):

“And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’“.

Jesus also said:

“Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished”.

“For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”

So what is lawlessness and what is righteousness, and how does your righteousness exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees? Jesus said:

“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”

And Paul said:

“For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. His praise is not from men but from God”.

And:

“For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And before him no creature is hidden, but all are open and laid bare to the eyes of him with whom we have to do”.

So then we have the seperation of the Sheep and the Goats, when Jesus says:

`Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'

And then He will turn to the Goats and say `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.'

So what is this?

Giving the hungry Food.
Welcoming the stranger.
Clothing the naked.
Visiting the sick.
Going to the prisoners?

Do you believe (the above) is literal, Spiritual, or both?

Quote

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ….

Taking in knowledge of God and of the Son will not save anyone, unless their hearts are circumsized, their intentions are pure, and their righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees.

For the record, I DO believe that Jesus came down from Heaven.  The details is all I don't know.  Having the faith of a child is simply believing.

Which is something else that Jesus said.

“Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven”.

“So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love“.

Are you, or anyone else here, perfected in love?

Mike, I'm trying not to post, so theres no need for a reply to this, ok? Just some things for all to think about.

Thanks.

[Ed J]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 10 2012,04:57)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,13:09) Hi Frank, Me neither. God bless Ed J Ed J, Then why do you ask the question “The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'?” and then seem to in turn answer the question in saying “The Bible says “The Word” was with God.” as if this is actually saying 'God was with God'? when in fact it does not. Is it possible for you to answer my question with a simple “Yes” or No” whether it is your belief 'God was with God'?

Hi Frank,

Because it was something that Mike said.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 08 2012,20:05)

Hi MB, The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

I'll take that as a “NO Mike, I do NOT have any scriptures that actually support my claim that God spoke through Jesus in John 6:38”.

Enough said, Nick. Get back to me when you DO have scriptural support of your many claims, okay?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 08 2012,20:18)

18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.

This puts yet another snag in your doctrine, Nick.  As I've pointed out, if it was God speaking through Jesus in John 6:38, then God has two opposing wills.

Now, as t8 points out, if it was God speaking through Jesus, who is this “Father” that God calls his “other witness”?

Nick, it's better just to believe the scriptures.  You have no scriptural hint whatsoever that God spoke through Jesus in these verses.  You've claimed it simply because you have to in order to keep your doctrine afloat.

You keep claiming that Jesus was anointed at the Jordan, and that's when he became a Christ of God – yet you have no scriptural proof of this either.  

Nick, I've just barely scratched the surface of what I'm sure will turn out to be MANY scriptures that go directly against your claims.  And already I've showed you two different parts of Luke 2 that discredit your claim about the Jordan.  And we've now showed you at least two clear reasons that your claim about John 6 can't be:

1.  God doesn't have two opposing wills.
2.  If God is one witness, who is the Father that is the other witness?

And I've barely spent two hours refuting this doctrine of yours.  How many scriptures will it take before you give up this concept you say you were shown?

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike………What did God tell John the Baptist   and when did this happen,  at the Jordan river the Spirit descended like a dove and rested (remained) on Jesus. He then was the anointed (CHRISTOS of GOD) no before but after that happened.  Nick is right about this , Jesus was the ANOINTED ONE and He was anointed at the Jordan River, and straight way was lead By the Spirit out into the wilderness to be tested. That did not happen before this took place and after that was Jesus sent out into the world to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God but not before that happened. Nick is right on this one.

Why did you say God does not have two opposing wills, who said that ? Jesus the SON of MAN had a Will and GOD the FATHER who was (IN) Him Had a WILL also and they were not the same wills , Jesus put his will in subjection in the wilderness in obedience to GOD'S the Fathers  WILL, Just as all true Christians must learn to do.  All of us who have the Spirit of God have two Wills working (IN) Us one of GOD and the other is OURS, we  must master our will and bring it into subjection the the Fathers Will Just like Jesus did.  By the power of God's Spirit working (IN) Us.   for God works in us both to “WILL” and Do of “HIS” good pleasure    All those who have God's spirit should know this already.  Our Choices are guided by the working of Our heavenly Fathers Spirit,” we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds”. IMO

peace and love………………………………………………………………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 10 2012,21:38)

Mike………What did God tell John the Baptist   and when did this happen,  at the Jordan river the Spirit descended like a dove and rested (remained) on Jesus. He then was the anointed (CHRISTOS of GOD) no before but after that happened.  Nick is right about this , Jesus was the ANOINTED ONE and He was anointed at the Jordan River, and straight way was lead By the Spirit out into the wilderness to be tested. That did not happen before this took place and after that was Jesus sent out into the world to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God but not before that happened. Nick is right on this one. Why did you say God does not have two opposing will who said that ? Jesus the SON of MAN had a Will and GOD the FATHER who was (IN) Him Had a WILL also and they were not the same wills , Jesus put his will in subjection in the wilderness in obedience to GOD'S the Fathers  WILL, Just as all true Christians must learn to do.  All of us who have the Spirit of God have two Will working (IN) Us on of GOD and the other is OURS, we  must master our will and bring it into subjection the the Fathers Will Just like Jesus did.  By the power of God's Spirit working (IN) Us.   for God works in us both to “WILL” and Do of “HIS” good pleasure    All those who have God's spirit should know this already.  Our Choices are guided by the working of Our heavenly Fathers Spirit,” we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds”. IMO peace and love………………………………………………………………….gene

gene

why can you not believe the scriptures ??

I think i get it ,you could not be fouled by the word of God and those disciples of Christ ,yea you know there trucks and so come up with the true meaning of those 1800 years old manuscripts ,I can see no one can foul you men you are the best

nothing could have been understood if you would not have been here,

to me it still a mystery i mean understanding your way but some do and we can see who they are this is good .

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 10 2012,14:38)

Mike………What did God tell John the Baptist   and when did this happen,  at the Jordan river the Spirit descended like a dove and rested (remained) on Jesus. He then was the anointed (CHRISTOS of GOD) no before but after that happened.  Nick is right about this , Jesus was the ANOINTED ONE and He was anointed at the Jordan River, and straight way was lead By the Spirit out into the wilderness to be tested. That did not happen before this took place and after that was Jesus sent out into the world to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God but not before that happened. Nick is right on this one. Why did you say God does not have two opposing will who said that ? Jesus the SON of MAN had a Will and GOD the FATHER who was (IN) Him Had a WILL also and they were not the same wills , Jesus put his will in subjection in the wilderness in obedience to GOD'S the Fathers  WILL, Just as all true Christians must learn to do.  All of us who have the Spirit of God have two Will working (IN) Us on of GOD and the other is OURS, we  must master our will and bring it into subjection the the Fathers Will Just like Jesus did.  By the power of God's Spirit working (IN) Us.   for God works in us both to “WILL” and Do of “HIS” good pleasure    All those who have God's spirit should know this already.  Our Choices are guided by the working of Our heavenly Fathers Spirit,” we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds”. IMO peace and love………………………………………………………………….gene

Hi Gene,

Nick, myself, you, David and the “JW's”, George, Paladin.     …and the list goes on.
Why, because that is indeed what the bible teaches.

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org

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