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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2012,10:55) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 06 2012,17:41) Mike, I also believe as Nick that the word of Father Yahweh is the spirit of Messiah, which is of Yahweh and also Yahweh.
Examine your own words above, Frank. Let me repost it with some of them struck through:I also believe as Nick that the word of Father Yahweh is
the spirit of Messiah, which is of Yahweh and alsoYahweh.If you believe the Word IS Yahweh, then in your understanding, John 1:1 speaks of Yahweh being WITH Yahweh. There is no way around it.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 06 2012,17:41) Still you have not given me how you believe this verse should be translated as opposed to the translation Nick has submitted. his is what I had initially asked you for.
2nd post on the previous page.
Mike,Even with the words that you slashed out, I still believe the word of Father Yahweh is Yahweh and with Yahweh just as I believe that my word is me and with me. My word certainly is not anyone else but me and it certainly is not with someone else!
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,11:33) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 07 2012,02:45) Terricca…………….Just read the scriptures start with Genesis and see what GOD SPOKE it is just that simple are you so confused by false religions you can't even figure that out? Jesus even said they were not “HIS” words. I just cant believe how confused you people are here. peace and love…………………………………………………gene
Hi Gene,They have to ignore much Scripture to hold onto the traditions of men.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,In case you missed my question … Do you believe “The Bible … say[s] 'God was with God'? or do you believe 'The Bible says “The Word” was with God.' or do you believe both?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2012,09:32) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,02:30) Hi Mike, The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'?
The Bible says “The Word” was with God.
That's too funny, Ed!
Isn't it you who tries to tell us all that the Word IS the Holy Spirit which IS God Himself?
According to YOUR understanding, it would most definitely be saying that God was WITH God.
Hi Mike,HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ
Why do you keep adding the word “himself“?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 07 2012,09:39) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 07 2012,09:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2012,11:49) Hi t8,
The WORD did not speak for God but spoke as the servant Son.
WE will come to you[Jn14]
You make it sound like the Word is a person that is not Jesus and doesn't always speak for God.We will come to you is different to “Not my will but your will”.
And I myself can say WE are discussing something in this thread. What does that prove though?I am not really following what you are saying Nick. It is confusing.
T8………What Nick is saying is the word was GOD (IN) Jesus speaking directly through HIM. That is Just what Paladin and I have been saying all along. The LOGOS was (IN) Jesus , but that does not Make Jesus the LOGOS himself .GOD who at different time spoke to us “Thought” the Prophets has spoken to us “THROUGH” a Son. It still was GOD Speaking via his SPIRIT.
Thomas clearly said my Lord “AND” my GOD That was who was present there. It was the Lord Jesus Christ “AND” GOD . What is stopping you people from understanding that?
T8 it sounds confusing because your don't seem to understand the concept that GOD can and Does (INDWELL) His creation by his Spirit, he is omni-PRESENT. can be inside of you or outside of you at any time he wants to.
Remember where it say “It is GOD who Works (IN) us both to WILL and do of His good Pleasure.” That is a true statement T8.
peace and love………………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,I guess it takes YHVH to open their eyes to see what you are saying.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,18:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2012,09:32) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,02:30) Hi Mike, The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'?
The Bible says “The Word” was with God.
That's too funny, Ed!Isn't it you who tries to tell us all that the Word IS the Holy Spirit which IS God Himself?
According to YOUR understanding, it would most definitely be saying that God was WITH God.
Hi Mike,HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ
Why do you keep adding the word “himself“?God bless
Ed J
Can you explain the difference it makes, Ed?Ed said that……………………..
Ed HIMSELF said that…………………………
I don't see a difference.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 07 2012,10:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2012,09:32) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,02:30) Hi Mike, The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'?
The Bible says “The Word” was with God.
That's too funny, Ed!Isn't it you who tries to tell us all that the Word IS the Holy Spirit which IS God Himself?
According to YOUR understanding, it would most definitely be saying that God was WITH God.
Mike,Then let me ask Ed J what it is that he believes …
Ed J,
Do you believe “The Bible … say[s] 'God was with God'? or do you believe 'The Bible says “The Word” was with God.' or do you believe both?
Hi Frank,Did you have trouble reading my post?
Take a closer look at my quote dated: (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,02:30)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 07 2012,09:39) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 07 2012,09:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2012,11:49) Hi t8,
The WORD did not speak for God but spoke as the servant Son.
WE will come to you[Jn14]
You make it sound like the Word is a person that is not Jesus and doesn't always speak for God.We will come to you is different to “Not my will but your will”.
And I myself can say WE are discussing something in this thread. What does that prove though?I am not really following what you are saying Nick. It is confusing.
T8………What Nick is saying is the word was GOD (IN) Jesus speaking directly through HIM. That is Just what Paladin and I have been saying all along. The LOGOS was (IN) Jesus , but that does not Make Jesus the LOGOS himself .GOD who at different time spoke to us “Thought” the Prophets has spoken to us “THROUGH” a Son. It still was GOD Speaking via his SPIRIT.
Thomas clearly said my Lord “AND” my GOD That was who was present there. It was the Lord Jesus Christ “AND” GOD . What is stopping you people from understanding that?
T8 it sounds confusing because your don't seem to understand the concept that GOD can and Does (INDWELL) His creation by his Spirit, he is omni-PRESENT. can be inside of you or outside of you at any time he wants to.
Remember where it say “It is GOD who Works (IN) us both to WILL and do of His good Pleasure.” That is a true statement T8.
peace and love………………………………………..gene
Gene,Well, since Ed J is not responding to the question that I have asked him, can you answer the same question in accordance with what it is that you believe the Scripture actually says …
Do you believe “The Bible … say[s] 'God was with God' or do you believe 'The Bible says “The Word” was with God.' or do you believe both?
Hi Frank,
Did you somehow miss my post addressed to you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,12:02) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 07 2012,10:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2012,09:32) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,02:30) Hi Mike, The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'?
The Bible says “The Word” was with God.
That's too funny, Ed!Isn't it you who tries to tell us all that the Word IS the Holy Spirit which IS God Himself?
According to YOUR understanding, it would most definitely be saying that God was WITH God.
Mike,Then let me ask Ed J what it is that he believes …
Ed J,
Do you believe “The Bible … say[s] 'God was with God'? or do you believe 'The Bible says “The Word” was with God.' or do you believe both?
Hi Frank,Did you have trouble reading my post?
Take a closer look at my quote dated: (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,02:30)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,I had thought that you might have made an error in adding the question mark to “The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'? I just wanted to be clear on what it was that you were saying is why I have asked you
Do you believe “The Bible … say[s] 'God was with God' or do you believe 'The Bible says “The Word” was with God.' or do you believe both?
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,12:06) Hi Frank, Did you somehow miss my post addressed to you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,I'm still waiting for your answer for clarification.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2012,11:58) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,18:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2012,09:32) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,02:30) Hi Mike, The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'?
The Bible says “The Word” was with God.
That's too funny, Ed!Isn't it you who tries to tell us all that the Word IS the Holy Spirit which IS God Himself?
According to YOUR understanding, it would most definitely be saying that God was WITH God.
Hi Mike,HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ
Why do you keep adding the word “himself“?God bless
Ed J
Can you explain the difference it makes, Ed?Ed said that……………………..
Ed HIMSELF said that…………………………
I don't see a difference.
Hi Mike, I will explain.My finger is me.
My finger is not me, myself, and I.
The word “myself” implies the entirety of myself.Perhaps you lack the understanding of the words which you choose to use,
to what those definitions imply; like the word “Person” implies “Human”.You use the word “Person” and intend to not use its implication;
these word usages can be confusing to other reading your posts.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 07 2012,12:14) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,12:06) Hi Frank, Did you somehow miss my post addressed to you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,I'm still waiting for your answer for clarification.
Hi Frank,read this post, it contains the answer you ask.
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,02:30)
The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'?
The Bible says “The Word” was with God.Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,12:20) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 07 2012,12:14) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,12:06) Hi Frank, Did you somehow miss my post addressed to you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,I'm still waiting for your answer for clarification.
Hi Frank,read this post, it contains the answer you ask.
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,02:30)
The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'?
The Bible says “The Word” was with God.
Ed J,No, it does not clarify my question to you if you in fact added the question mark in error as I had thought that maybe you did.
I will ask you the question one more time as follows:
Do you believe “The Bible … say[s] 'God was with God' or do you believe 'The Bible says “The Word” was with God.' or do you believe both?
A simply answer of “Both” from you will clarify that you did not add a question mark in error or you could be more specific in explaining in a little more detail. If you do in fact believe: “The Bible … say[s] 'God was with God', could you please show me which so-called “Bible” that you are referring to that actually says this?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 07 2012,12:30) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,12:20) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 07 2012,12:14) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,12:06) Hi Frank, Did you somehow miss my post addressed to you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,I'm still waiting for your answer for clarification.
Hi Frank,read this post, it contains the answer you ask.
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,02:30)
The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'?
The Bible says “The Word” was with God.
Ed J,No, it does not clarify my question to you if you in fact added the question mark in error as I had thought that maybe you did.
I will ask you the question one more time as follows:
Do you believe “The Bible … say[s] 'God was with God' or do you believe 'The Bible says “The Word” was with God.' or do you believe both?
A simply answer of “Both” from you will clarify that you did not add a question mark in error or you could be more specific in explaining in a little more detail. If you do in fact believe: “The Bible … say[s] 'God was with God', could you please show me which so-called “Bible” that you are referring to that actually says this?
In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
John 1:1 AKJV BibleQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,12:51) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 07 2012,12:30) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,12:20) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 07 2012,12:14) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2012,12:06) Hi Frank, Did you somehow miss my post addressed to you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,I'm still waiting for your answer for clarification.
Hi Frank,read this post, it contains the answer you ask.
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2012,02:30)
The Bible doesn't say 'God was with God'?
The Bible says “The Word” was with God.
Ed J,No, it does not clarify my question to you if you in fact added the question mark in error as I had thought that maybe you did.
I will ask you the question one more time as follows:
Do you believe “The Bible … say[s] 'God was with God' or do you believe 'The Bible says “The Word” was with God.' or do you believe both?
A simply answer of “Both” from you will clarify that you did not add a question mark in error or you could be more specific in explaining in a little more detail. If you do in fact believe: “The Bible … say[s] 'God was with God', could you please show me which so-called “Bible” that you are referring to that actually says this?
In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
John 1:1 AKJV Bible
Ed J,I am quite aware of what the AKJV says, but it certainly does not say 'God was with God'. In fact, I am not aware of any so-called “Holy Bible” translation that actually says 'God was with God'.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2012,12:27) 1. Colwell's Rule allows for the addition of the definite article in certain cases, allowing for “the word was THE god” – which we would translate in English as “the word was God”.
I would have to check this out to verify it, but some scholars say that this wording would mean that the Word was the God to the detriment of all else including the Father. (Unless of course your doctrine said that the Father is the Word.)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2012,12:27) Frank, many translations offer “and the Word was divine”, or “the Word was godlike”, or something to effect of those two. But these translations are not possible because the word “theos” in 1:1c is not written in the adjectival form.
I think you make some fair points Mike.I have a question. Is there any difference when it says that God made adam, male and female in the adjective sense.
If not, then the word theos or god perhaps should suffice just as man/adam is sufficient in order to be consistent.
I say this because there is a difference between a man and man. Man or mankind identifies the nature while 'a man' identifies a particular man or is talking about one man.
How do we know that John 1:1c is conveying one single god as opposed to the nature of God?
Yes I am aware that saying a man also conveys indirectly the nature, but it does more than that as it also conveys a single man.
Is the Logos being of the nature of God the same as the Logos being a single god?
As far as the last mention of theos not being adjectival, I offer this writing which I don't have time to read now but will do later tonight. It looks interesting after a skim read at least.
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/index.php/t-8670.html
T8……………..If your were to just step away form all of those twists and turns and confusions , and just ask yourself this simple question , if John was meaning Jesus in John 1:1, would he not have just written Jesus there? I am no Scholar but to me it is Just that simple no need to complicate any thing > If John want to mean Jesus he would just have written Jesus there. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………………gene
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