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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2012,20:42) Hi T,
You wrote it so hopefully you can prove it.
N
then I say you do not know the truthQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2012,13:29) Hi 94,
A plan?
My words are spirit and they are life
Hi Nick:Quote Job 38:4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you know so much. Job 38:5 Who determined its dimensions and stretched out the surveying line?
Job 38:6 What supports its foundations, and who laid its cornerstone
Job 38:7 as the morning stars sang together and all the angels [fn] shouted for joy?
Quote 1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; 1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Quote Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In these last days God has spoken to us though His Son:
Quote Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. Love in Christ,
MartyHi 94,
Yes CHRIST Jesus.
The Spirit of Christ was in the prophets before Yashua.[1Peter 1]
The Spirit of Elijah was in John.The Spirit of God is one but in many forms
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2012,13:01) Hi t8,
The Word which was with God in the beginning was with God in Christ Jesus.
That is why Jesus sometimes used the word WEGod is more than the Spirit and His Spirit is more than the Spirit of Christ
“We will come to you.”
When Jesus said “we” it is almost taken for granted that he was talking of himself and the Father.God is more than spirit, he is the Father. He is also the Father of spirits. All spirit originates in him hence why he is the Father.
Many understand this. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with it.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 26 2012,14:10) “And he wore a garment soaked with blood, and his name is called The Word of God.”
Hence we call him the Word of God.If you agree that he is called the Word of God, then let's call him the Word of God. If we call him the Word of God then why oppose us for that?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2012,12:42) Hi T8,
The WORD spoke.
The Word was with God and the Word was God.
This statement of yours does not change the fact that the text in question is about Jesus Christ and who he is. It is not about the Father. No one was questioning the Father, his existence, his existence before Abraham, or anything else pertaining to the Father. It is about Jesus Christ and it was Jesus who said, “Before Abraham I am”, and he was talking of himself and his relationship with his Father in the whole text.Hi t8,
Jn 12.49
'For I did not speak on my own initiative, but the Father Himself Who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak”The Father to the Word through Jesus
Nick I am going to state the obvious.
The same permission or instruction of the Father to allow Jesus to say “before Abraham I am” is no different to that which allowed Jesus to also say “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me”.
These 2 sentences as well as the others that Jesus spoke are spoken in the same conversation.
I think you are trying to convince us that yes, Jesus was speaking, but that the Father was speaking through him, thus, “Before Abraham, I am” is a reference about the Father by the Father. If this is your agenda, you then have to also say that the Father said about himself, “”If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me”. We both know that the Father did not say this about himself, so you are applying different rules within the same conversation and context.
So given this obvious predicament, you are then forced to take this further and say, yes it was Jesus speaking about himself by permission of his Father, but then add in that the Father overrode Jesus in the last utterance and said, “before Abraham, I am”.
Two problems with this of course.
1) At best it is an assumption. At worst it is adding in your own understanding outside of what is written.
2) If it is true and the Father spoke about himself only in the last utterance, then how is anyone to know who these words are about if the preceding words and context of the conversation is about who Jesus is with no explanation that it is the Father now talking about himself.I mean, if I was speaking about myself to some people and I was telling them that I have come to give the gospel, and people asked if I was a prophet, and in my last words I said, “I was God”. Do you honestly think anyone in their right mind would think that in that instance God spoke through me about himself and indeed I was not blaspheming because they were not my words? If you think this sort of thing is permissible, then when someone says they are God, then you cannot judge their words as bad, in case it was actually God speaking about himself and through that person.
Once you open that possibility of the Father speaking about himself in the midst or end of a conversation from another who is talking about himself, you then cannot truly judge anyone if they say they are God in case it was God doing the same thing through this person too.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 26 2012,15:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2012,13:01) Hi t8,
The Word which was with God in the beginning was with God in Christ Jesus.
That is why Jesus sometimes used the word WEGod is more than the Spirit and His Spirit is more than the Spirit of Christ
“We will come to you.”
When Jesus said “we” it is almost taken for granted that he was talking of himself and the Father.God is more than spirit, he is the Father. He is also the Father of spirits. All spirit originates in him hence why he is the Father.
Many understand this. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with it.
HI T8,It appears to me that David the “JW” is disagreeing with your synopsis here. (Pages 129-142)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ Feb. 26 2012,15:22) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 26 2012,14:10) “And he wore a garment soaked with blood, and his name is called The Word of God.”
Hence we call him the Word of God.If you agree that he is called the Word of God, then let's call him the Word of God. If we call him the Word of God then why oppose us for that?
Hi T8,Please do: understanding that “The Word” is God's “HolySpirit”. (see 1John 1:1-5 and Isaiah 63:2-14)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgNick, I would like to see your DIRECT response to t8's excellent explanation about “I am”. Do you assert that Jesus was talking about HIMSELF for many sentences, and then all of a sudden, on the last sentence, God overtook his words to claim the obvious that He (God) existed before Abraham? YES or NO?
Frank, I would like to see your DIRECT response to t8's excellent point that if John was informed in his revelation that Jesus is CALLED “the Word of God”, is it so far of a stretch to believe that John, later when he wrote his gospel, actually CALLED Jesus “the Word of God”?
Your info mentioned Hagyah [Haggai]: meaning – 'Feast of Yahweh', right? Consider:
Ezra 5:1
Now Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the prophet, a descendant of Iddo, prophesied to the Jews in Judah and Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel, who was over them.Do you understand Ezra to be saying a literal “feast of Yahweh” prophesied to the Jews? Or do you understand that it was the PERSON called by the name “feast of Yahweh” who did the prophesying?
If you can understand that the PERSON whose name is called “feast of Yahweh” prophesied to the Jews, then why can't you understand that the PERSON whose name is called “the Word of God” is the one who was with God in the beginning?
T8………..You are forcing the text to say that Jesus was meaning He “EXISTED” as a SENTINEL “BEING” before Abraham the text is in response to what the intent of the Pharisees were driving at and that was that they had Abraham to look to not Jesus and Jesus was simply telling that Before ABRAHAM was Born He was (In Scripture placed ahead of HIM) He was the ONE Prophesied to Come NOT Abraham, and they need to look to Him as their authority, not Abraham. Moses plainly said UNTO “HIM” (JESUS) they should HEED.
What you are doing T8 is focusing on a few word and not bringing the context in play in which it was said. IMO
Nick is right in this and you T8 are wrong brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 26 2012,08:18) Jesus was simply telling that Before ABRAHAM was Born He was (In Scripture placed ahead of HIM)
Unfortunately for you, Gene, that is NOT what Jesus said. Hmmm………….how do you put it again?The fact is he didn't say that, now did he?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2012,22:33) Hi t8,
Jn 12.49
'For I did not speak on my own initiative, but the Father Himself Who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak”The Father to the Word through Jesus
Nnone of the prophets have ever speak for them selves,it was always the words of God they spoke,
was Jesus not a prophet
yes he was.he was the son of man ,and the son of God
son of God ,because first born from all of creation ,and son of man because he is born of a women,
he is our high priest,our mediator,our ticket to salvation,just as God chose Moses to deliver his people Israel from slavery in
Egypt ,but Christ as a better salvation because is promise is everlasting life.not a piece of landYes T,
He was the great prophet Peter alluded to spoken of by Moses in Acts 3.22The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy[rev19]
He spoke for God.
In fact, Jesus is and was God's main spokesman. That is why he alone is called “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13, John 1:1, and 1:14.
P.S. There is a question waiting at the top of this page for you, Nick. Please DIRECTLY answer it.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2012,11:06) Yes T,
He was the great prophet Peter alluded to spoken of by Moses in Acts 3.22The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy[rev19]
He spoke for God.
Nyou still do not understand what it means ;
The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy[rev19]
you have a problem with spirituality,still carnal oriented,are you
Moses spoke with an angel of God,Christ spoke with God his father,
do you understand the difference???
Hi T,
Indeed Jesus Christ is the image of God.
The Word that was with God related to God as an image.
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