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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2012,01:35) No, somebody recently posted their own chart of Hebrew letters and the sounds they make. In that chart, there was a “w” sound listed. Do you remember what I'm talking about?
Shalom Mike, I vaguely remember; but it really doesn’t matter, because he was wrong!Yahweh? (Link to a Hebrew site)
“It was later speculated that perhaps the Masoretes reversed the vowels for Adonai
when applied to the letters יהוה in the running text, so some attempted to “correct”
the pronunciation by pronouncing the name “Yahoveh” or “Yahveh”, This. too, is
incorrect (though the construct “Yah” probably is part of the original pronunciation
(e.g.,see Psalm 68:4)). Note that Yahweh is most likely also an incorrect translation, since there is no “w” sound in Hebrew.”YÄ-hä-vā!
“In hebrew, the name that we are using for our creator is changing according to the context .
The most common name is : יהוה (YAHAVA) and i guess that's the name you mentioned.
we also use ” ADONAY” for the creator , and both of these names are considered holy and
sacred and one cannot use these names in vain. Other less formal and holy names are :
“HASHEM” (“the name”), “elohim” (God), “el-shaday” (from the bible) and some more.
The name in hebrew for Jesus Christ is : “yeshu” or “yeshuah” (ישוע) but not YAHUSHUA
as you mentioned, because this name (YAHUSHUA) in hebrew means “Joshua” (book of the Bible).
Hope you'll find this answer satisfactory,
Roy” (Link to another Hebrew site)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים=117 (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Quote (Pastry @ Jan. 16 2012,22:25) Hi all! the reason why the translators used LORD for Almighty God, and not Jehovah, is because they didn't want o mispronounce His name, and used either Almighty God or LORD instead…in all capital letters….. While Lord in the New Testament was used for Jesus…..all titles….Yaweh is the Hebrew word for Jehovah, so using Jehovah is not wrong to use, as far as I understand….The definition for His name is
The everlasting one
The self-existing one
The immortal one
What makes me wonder why one man comes on hee an knows it better then some tranlstors do,,, I for one do not go what He says….Irene
Hi Irene,Substitute titles such as ADONAY(LORD), HASHEM(The Name),
and including all mispronunciations were done by the Jews in an
attempt to keep others from using God's name in vain. (Exodus 20:7)Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for
the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. (Ex 20:7)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 16 2012,06:35) Note that Yahweh is most likely also an incorrect translation, since there is no “w” sound in Hebrew.”
If your source is CERTAIN that the Hebrew has no “w” sound, then why do they say “most likely”?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,10:46) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 16 2012,06:35) Note that Yahweh is most likely also an incorrect translation, since there is no “w” sound in Hebrew.”
If your source is CERTAIN that the Hebrew has no “w” sound, then why do they say “most likely”?
Hi Mike,Because modern Hebrew has no “W” sound. I challenge
anyone to post some Hebrew words “with” a “W” sound.
If there are not any than how can that possibly be right?Did you not see the other Hebrew link, where consensus
has God's name pronounced (YÄ-hä-vā) as I suggest?Dr. J. Strong: Hebrew #3069 yeh-ho-vee' ;
P-R-E-T-T-Y CLOSE, don't you agree?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgFor what it is worth.
Many years ago, I asked a Jewish friend what the numerical value of W was in Hebrew. . He said something like this: “There is no W, but that letter was actually V (Vav). He then told me that Vav also represented the number 6. So I said to him that it meant that WWW had the value of 666 and he agreed that this was so given that W become Vs.
Like I said, “for what it is worth”.
YHWH or YHVH. I suppose it is like comparing Yeshua with Joshua.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 17 2012,20:24) For what it is worth. Many years ago, I asked a Jewish friend what the numerical value of W was in Hebrew. . He said something like this: “There is no W, but that letter was actually V (Vav). He then told me that Vav also represented the number 6. So I said to him that it meant that WWW had the value of 666 and he agreed that this was so given that W become Vs.
Like I said, “for what it is worth”.
YHWH or YHVH. I suppose it is like comparing Yeshua with Joshua.
Hi T8,Comparing YHWH to YHVH is like comparing “Yəsh-yü-ă” to “YÄ-shü-ă”
The Hebrew word [ישוע] Yəsh-yü-ă merely means ‘He will save’.
Distancing [יה]’s salvation from the man Jesus is a rejection of
YÄ-shü-ă as Messiah. This subtle distinction of [ישוע] Yəsh-yü-ă
purposely substituted for [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă usually goes unnoticed
when heard by a non Hebrew-speaking person; nevertheless, this
wholly implies a specific denial of Jesus as their Lord and Savior.Jesus’ authentic name [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă has a direct connection to GOD’s name [יה] in that YÄ
is the first part of Jesus’ Hebrew name. GOD’s name is not vocalized in the English translation
of the name Jesus and therefore misses the precise exactness and direct authentic connection
to God’s Hebrew name [יה] YÄ. Jesus’ Name in Hebrew means: (“YÄ is salvation” [יה]+[ישע]=[יהשוע])
or the salvation of “GOD the Father”. Therefore [יהשוע] “Jesus” name authentically establishes [יהוה] “JEHOVAH” as the Highest Name.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi T8,
It is like reading the many corrupted versions of the bible,
sure can get truth out of them, but you can also learn error.YHVH wants us to come out of confusion.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTo ALL,
There is the MODERN Hebrew and there is the BIBLICAL (or ANCIENT) Hebrew pronunciation. Pronunciations change from one language to another and one must also take into consideration diverse dialectical changes in any specific language which in turn produce various pronunciations. 'YHWH' is merely a transliteration/transcription of our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name into our English language. 'Yahweh' is simply one of various transliterations/transcriptions of our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name into our English language with vowel letters added. Whether the vowels used in 'Yahweh' are accurate is also heavily debated among those who seek the most accurate pronunciation that they believe that was used by the saints and prophets of old and as originally pronounced to them. My stance is that no one knows EXACTLY how our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name was pronounced to the saints and prophets of old since, all we have are the written records and not actual audio records as to ascertain how words and names were pronounced by them. There is also no instruction whatsoever in Scripture as to how we are to transliterate/transcribe our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name into our English language or any other language. I simply use 'Yahweh' because most scholars of the Hebrew language agree with this rendition of His Name into our English language. I do not proclaim that this rendition is EXACTLY how the saints and prophets of old ACTUALLY pronounced our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name. As to whether His Name should be pronounced/transliterated/transcribed with an English letter 'v' or 'w', the following article might be of some help:
The Sacred Name:
Yahveh or Yahweh?WHETHER to pronounce Yahweh’s Name with a “v” or “w” hinges on which letter accurately transliterates the sound of the Hebrew letter W or “waw” in the Tetragrammaton, YHWH.
We must take into consideration the ancient pronunciation of the waw and whether “v”, “w” or “u” as we know them accurately reflect that ancient pronunciation. The following information is derived from a number of sources, including G.B. Palatino’s Lettere Romane (1545). ‘U’ and ‘W’ are variants of ‘V’ which was being used for two different sounds in medieval England. ‘U’ was introduced to give a soft vowel sound as opposed to the harder consonant sound of ‘V’. ‘W’ began as a ligature. Two ‘V’ letter forms were joined into ‘VV’ to represent ‘double U’ in 12th-century England. Those who use the “v” form of Yahweh’s Name (Yahveh) should note that the Name is spelled “Yahweh” in almost all academic publications, many by people well-studied in the Hebrew language, including Hebrew speakers. Hebrew linguists believe the third letter waw was in ancient times pronounced as “w” (hence it is named “waw”).
In later Hebrew its pronunciation, influenced by European languages, was changed to “v” and the letter was later called “vav,” according to the Encyclopædia Judaica. The Judaica shows that the semitic languages nearest Israel use the “w” pronunciation as opposed to the “v” pronunciation found in those speakers of Hebrew living in or closer to Europe. Those using the “w” sound include Jews of Babylonia, Yemeni, Morocco, Samaria, the Sephardi (Temple Hebrew) and Portuguese. Those using the “v” sound of “waw” include Hebrew-speaking communities in Italy, Poland, Germany, and Lithuania. These Europeans picked up the Germanic “v” and transferred it to the waw.
The change from W to V is very well known, for example, in most of the continental languages like German (also the descendants of Latin). We know from historical comparisons that direction of change in Latin was from W to V. English has remained faithful to an old W sound for over six thousand years, while it changed to V in Late Latin almost two thousand years ago (but had not yet changed in Classical Latin). The “w” is formed by putting two “v” letters together, but it is called a double-u because it is made up of two letters originally pronounced as we do the “u.” One needs only to look at old government building architecture with inscriptions bearing a “v” but pronounced like a “u” to see that the “v” was originally a vowel sound like “u” (e.g. bvilding, Jvly).It was not until the dictionary was published that a decided difference was made between the “v” and the “u.” It is more than coincidence that the U, V, and W occur together in our alphabet; it shows a common relationship that these letters had in derivation and similar pronunciation.
The v is a consonant that some have used for the sound of the Hebrew waw in Yahweh’s Name (Yahveh). The problem is, the waw in His Name was considered a vowel anciently. In fact, all the letters of the Tetragrammaton are called vowels by Josephus (Wars of the Jews, 5.5.556) as well as by Hebrew grammars. Bagster’s Helps to Bible Study also says these are vowel-letters in the sacred Name, “as having been originally used to represent vowels, and they still frequently serve as vowels in combination with the points.” Bagster's says the waw represents the letters o or u.
Another authority says, “The sound of waw a long time ago wasn’t ‘vav’ at all but ‘w’ and ‘w’ is weak. The Yemenite Jews of Arabia who retain an ancient, correct, and pure pronunciation of Hebrew still pronounce the waw as ‘w,’ as does Arabic, the close sister language of Hebrew,” How the Hebrew Language Grew, Edward Horowitz, pp. 29-30. As the online Wikipedia notes: “There was no ‘U’; instead, there was the semi-vowel ‘V’. There was no ‘W’, although ‘V’ was pronounced as the modern English ‘W’.” As for the “j” in “Jehovah,” the letter J is the last letter to be added to our alphabet. ‘J’ was an ‘outgrowth’ of ‘I’ and was used to give a sound of greater consonant force, particularly as the first letter of some words. It was used interchangeably with the letter “I” at first, showing that its original pronunciation stemmed from the vowel sound of “I” and only later got its “juh” sound through French influence.
The English name “Jehovah” was invented by Roman Catholics sometime in the Middle Ages, based on a misunderstanding of Masoretic Hebrew texts. It is a hybrid word consisting of the Tetragrammaton YHWH (“J” used to be pronounced as “Y”) and the vowels for the word “Adonai.” Though “Jehovah” is used a few times in the 1611 King James Version (e.g., Gen 22:14; Exod 6:3; Isa 12:2; Ps 83:18) and is found in many older Christian hymns, it is not the authentic biblical pronunciation of the sacred Name (For a discussion of the “Jehovah or Yahweh” question see “God, Names of” in Encyclopædia Judaica, vol. 7, col. 680, or George F. Moore, Judaism in the First Centuries of the Christian Era: The Age of the Tannaim (3 vols., Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard Univ. Press, 1927-30), vol. 1, p. 219 and note 1, p. 427. Most modern Bible translations have notes on this issue in their introductions, agreeing that the true Name of the Heavenly Father is Yahweh.
For more information on the diverse pronunciations of our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name that are proposed, please see my following web pages:
Shalom Frank,
Show us all some Hebrew words with a “W” sound.
Surely you can find at least “three” little words,
that is, if what you said is true of course!“at the mouth of three witnesses,
shall the matter be established.” (Deut.19:15)B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2012,04:08) Shalom Frank, Show us all some Hebrew words with a “W” sound.
Surely you can find at least “three” little words,
that is, if what you said is true of course!“at the mouth of three witnesses,
shall the matter be established.” (Deut.19:15)B'shem
YHVH
Ed J,Say the sound oo (or 'uu') and the sound eh (or ay) together and what you will hear is a w sound being more prominent in between these two sounds. One can also pronounce the oo sound with a 'w' sound at the end. Following is our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name transliterated/transcribed into our English language as vowels:
IAUA
Vocalizing this you will find that there is a 'w' (double u) sound when saying 'U', 'OO', or 'UU'.
U = oow sound
OO = oow sound
UU = oow sound
Again, 'Yahweh' is simply a transliteration/transcription of our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name into our English language.
Please refer to the following:
Waw (Vav)
By Jeff A. Benner
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.htmlQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 19 2012,04:46) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2012,04:08) Shalom Frank, Show us all some Hebrew words with a “W” sound.
Surely you can find at least “three” little words,
that is, if what you said is true of course!“at the mouth of three witnesses,
shall the matter be established.” (Deut.19:15)B'shem
YHVH
Ed J,Say the sound oo (or 'uu') and the sound eh (or ay) together and what you will hear is a w sound being more prominent in between these two sounds. One can also pronounce the oo sound with a 'w' sound at the end. Following is our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name transliterated/transcribed into our English language as vowels:
IAUA
Vocalizing this you will find that there is a 'w' (double u) sound when saying 'U', 'OO', or 'UU'.
U = oow sound
OO = oow sound
UU = oow sound
Again, 'Yahweh' is simply a transliteration/transcription of our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name into our English language.
Please refer to the following:
Waw (Vav)
By Jeff A. Benner
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
Ed j,Since we are off topic here in discussing this, I made a new post on this topic at: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….131;r=1
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 19 2012,04:46) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2012,04:08) Shalom Frank, Show us all some Hebrew words with a “W” sound.
Surely you can find at least “three” little words,
that is, if what you said is true of course!“at the mouth of three witnesses,
shall the matter be established.” (Deut.19:15)B'shem
YHVH
Ed J,Say the sound oo (or 'uu') and the sound eh (or ay) together and what you will hear is a w sound being more prominent in between these two sounds. One can also pronounce the oo sound with a 'w' sound at the end. Following is our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name transliterated/transcribed into our English language as vowels:
IAUA
Vocalizing this you will find that there is a 'w' (double u) sound when saying 'U', 'OO', or 'UU'.
U = oow sound
OO = oow sound
UU = oow sound
Again, 'Yahweh' is simply a transliteration/transcription of our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name into our English language.
Please refer to the following:
Waw (Vav)
By Jeff A. Benner
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
Hi Frank,Are you now suggesting his name is Ya-oo-a?
B'shem
YÄ-hä-vāQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2012,05:17) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 19 2012,04:46) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2012,04:08) Shalom Frank, Show us all some Hebrew words with a “W” sound.
Surely you can find at least “three” little words,
that is, if what you said is true of course!“at the mouth of three witnesses,
shall the matter be established.” (Deut.19:15)B'shem
YHVH
Ed J,Say the sound oo (or 'uu') and the sound eh (or ay) together and what you will hear is a w sound being more prominent in between these two sounds. One can also pronounce the oo sound with a 'w' sound at the end. Following is our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name transliterated/transcribed into our English language as vowels:
IAUA
Vocalizing this you will find that there is a 'w' (double u) sound when saying 'U', 'OO', or 'UU'.
U = oow sound
OO = oow sound
UU = oow sound
Again, 'Yahweh' is simply a transliteration/transcription of our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name into our English language.
Please refer to the following:
Waw (Vav)
By Jeff A. Benner
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
Hi Frank,Are you now suggesting his name is Ya-oo-a?
B'shem
YÄ-hä-vā
Ed J,No, I am suggesting that you please not get off topic in accordance with this thread and take the topic on the SUPPOSED CORRECT pronunciation of our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name to:
Hi Frank,
Thank you; I'll be posting on your new thread soon.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgFrank,
Thanks for the info about the pronunciation of YHWH!
And thank you for making a thread to continue that discussion somewhere other than here. Unfortunately, that leaves us right here where we left off:
Frank, please give a VALID, SCRIPTURAL reason why the Word of God in John 1:1 and 14 cannot possibly be the same person as the Word of God in Rev 19:13.
John Chapter One
John 1:1 in the Greek reads “God was the word,” but most if not all English versions read, “the Word was God.” This reverses the phrase, and changes the meaning. To say “God was the word” is not the same as, “the Word was God.”
In the Greek, the letter l in logos is not capitalized, even tho when proper, some Greek words are capitalized. But in English versions, the l is capitalized – improperly. Why? To enhance the doctrine of the Trinity, which gave birth to the theory of the Pre-existence of Yahshua.
In verse 3 & 10, the Greek word dia is translated “through.” Since Scriptures both in the O.T. and the N.T. tell us that Yahweh (the Supreme Being) (1) created all things, (2) with no help from anyone, and (3) that no Deity was with him in the act of creating, then John 1:3 must agree with these Scriptures, especially with those in the O.T. (since the Messiah and the Apostles proved their doctrine by the O.T.). After all, The N.T. depends on the O.T. for its reason to exist. Please see the paper “Who Is the Creator?“
“Through” is not technically a wrong translation of the word dia, if the message of the sentence indicates this. But just as Hebrews 1:1-2, and Col. 1:15-17, the word dia should be translated “on account of,” or “because of.” Reason? The message in the sentence demands this. The word dia is often translated “on account of,” or “because of.”
Thanks,
Voy
Also see:
YAHSHUA: Did He Pre-exist?
An Explanation Of Our Views
By Voy Wilks
10/23/90frank
Quote In the Greek, the letter l in logos is not capitalized, even tho when proper, some Greek words are capitalized. But in English versions, the l is capitalized – improperly. Why? To enhance the doctrine of the Trinity, which gave birth to the theory of the Pre-existence of Yahshua. so the trinity must have been in place right after Christ left to heaven ,and before Paul written his letter to the Colossians ,and John written his gospel and Revelation ,right
Pierre
Good point, Pierre.
And Frank, I'm still waiting for a SCRIPTURAL reason.
He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another. – Tertullian
God creating THROUGH Jesus doesn't change one scripture. Just like me sending you this message THROUGH the internet doesn't mean the internet was somehow involved in the message itself.
Your source brings up Hebrews 1, which says God created the universe THROUGH the Son.
And it mentions Col 1, which say all things in heaven and on earth were created through the Son.
You can also add in 1 Cor 8:6, which says all things came FROM God and THROUGH Jesus.
And then combine all those thoughts together with John 1:3, which says all things came THROUGH the Word of God.
How can you not see this, Frank?
Anyway, I'll wait for your SCRIPTURAL reason in your own words, instead of the unsubstantiated claim of some man that the word “dia” means “on account of”. He says the context demands this translation, but doesn't say why. (Unless the “God created alone” was suppose to be the reason. If so, then it has been solidly debunked by me in this post.)
Yahweh Is Creator
10/20/91“And Elohim spake all these words, saying, I am YAHWEH, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, … For in six days YAHWEH MADE HEAVEN and EARTH, the sea, and all that in them is, …” (Ex. 20:1,2,11).
This was Yahweh the Father, not Yahshua the Son, as some believe. The Creator and the Law Giver is one and the same person (Ex. 20:6). *There is only ONE law giver (Isa. 33:22; James 4:12). To extend this thought a little further: Yahshua did not accept credit as Creator when the rich young ruler came to him asking how to gain eternal life. Instead, he indicated that the Father is Creator (Mt. 19:17). Only ONE is good – the Father, who gave the commandments:
“Here is the patience of the Saints: those who KEEP the COMMANDMENTS OF YAHWEH and the FAITH OF YAHSHUA” (Rev. 14:12).
Yahshua only spoke what his Father directed.
Proof that is was Yahweh the Father
(1) Who spoke to Abraham, and
(2) Who gave the Decalogue on Mount HorebIs revealed in the following Scripture:
“For when Yahweh made promise to Abraham, since he could swear by no one greater, he swore by himself, saying, Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you. … For men swear by the greater …” (Hebrews 6:13,14, 16, TSS).
If Yahshua in a pre-existent state (a second Yahweh) was the one who spoke to Abraham, he could have sworn by a greater than himself. He could have sworn by his Father (Yahweh). But he did not. The Yahweh who spoke to Abraham claimed there was no one greater than himself. Only Yahweh the Father can truthfully make this statement.
Therefore the one who spoke to Abraham and who gave the Decalogue was Yahweh the Father; the only true Yahweh who exists. Only He can swear by no one greater.
SOURCE[URL=Yahweh Is Creator 10/20/91 “And Elohim spake all these words, saying, I am YAHWEH, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, … For in six days YAHWEH MADE HEAVEN and EARTH, the sea, and all that in them is, …” (Ex. 20:1,2,11). This was Yahweh the Father, not Yahshua the Son, as some believe. The Creator and the Law Giver is one and the same person (Ex. 20:6). * There is only ONE law giver (Isa. 33:22; James 4:12). To extend this thought a little further: Yahshua did not accept credit as Creator when the rich young ruler came to him asking how to gain eternal life. Instead, he indicated that the Father is Creator (Mt. 19:17). Only ONE is good – the Father, who gave the commandments: “Here is the patience of the Saints: those who KEEP the COMMANDMENTS OF YAHWEH and the FAITH OF YAHSHUA” (Rev. 14:12). Yahshua only spoke what his Father directed. Proof that is was Yahweh the Father (1) Who spoke to Abraham, and (2) Who gave the Decalogue on Mount Horeb Is revealed in the following Scripture: “For when Yahweh made promise to Abraham, since he could swear by no one greater, he swore by himself, saying, Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you. … For men swear by the greater …” (Hebrews 6:13,14, 16, TSS). If Yahshua in a pre-existent state (a second Yahweh) was the one who spoke to Abraham, he could have sworn by a greater than himself. He could have sworn by his Father (Yahweh). But he did not. The Yahweh who spoke to Abraham claimed there was no one greater than himself. Only Yahweh the Father can truthfully make this statement. Therefore the one who spoke to Abraham and who gave the Decalogue was Yahweh the Father; the only true Yahweh who exists. Only He can swear by no one greater.
<a href="http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/755309610/hear-o-israel-yahweh-our-elohim-is-two-yahwehs—this-is-never-found-in-scriptures-9112001
” target=”_blank”>SOURCE*Yahshua Was Not A Lawgiver
By Voy Wilks
1975
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